TDL 2021: What will Chuck do?

What will Chuck do?


  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
Why? They've proven they're not good enough to carry a team deep into the playoffs.
So why spend assets to tweak a team around them?
Rather, build a team and let them be complementary players.
ummm...that's what we have been doing and few of the young players have stepped up to take the reigns.

Go look at your OLD 2 years away notes. This was supposed to be Couts, TK, Patrick, Lindlom, Frost, Farabee, Hayes, Provy, Sanheim, Myers, Hart's, etc... team.....with G, Jake and JVR as the vets playing a support role.

Now go look who leads us in points....JVR, Jake and Giroux. Who leads us in ES points-Jake, JVR and Giroux.

Out "vets" are still carrying this team because the kids have not been good enough. We are supposed to have a great defense by now...and none can be trusted to actually play good defense on a nightly basis...let alone great defense. Add in Hart's implosion and you get Elliot(vet) being our best goalie this year.

Then we went and add 3 vet coaches to get the stench of Hak off us...and they have done jack shit to get the best out of the players like good coaches do. We have a 28th ranked PK, a PP that the talent carries us and coaches has added nothing, and a head coach who continually benches good players when playing well..."to send a message". Good coaches put players into the best situation to succeed. Our coaches have not done that.

But hey...in 1 year we could be without Giroux and Couts and maybe JVR/Jake due to the ED. We wasted our 2 best players since Lindros. We are coming up on 7 years since Hextall was hired(in May) and are about to go into year 8. We have no star to replace Giroux. We have no #1Dman who controls the game. Hell..we have no top 30 goalie let alone a top one.

This offseason shit needs to get done and we are very likely to do shit things if all the other smaller moves are any indication. Going to be a fun ride on the flume of shit.

Oh...and I won't bother going back and forth with you today as i don't have the desire. Let's all hope a miracle happens and Fletch does something good.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Myers and Hart regressing is a setback.
Frost, Lindblom and Patrick is the Hockey Gods' punishment for the failure to sacrifice Taryn to them, they're old fashioned Gods.

But this also means this team is poised for a quick turnaround, go back to 2016-17:
Voracek (27) and Couts (24) were the only forwards with 30+ ES points, G (29) was hobbled, Schenn (25) was traded that offseason, Simmonds (27) was the PP rock but a marginal 2nd line forward, TK (19) had 24 ES points as a rookie, but the rest of the forwards: Read (30), Raffl (28), Cousins (23), Weise (28), VdV (29), PEB (31) - lost in ED, Lyubimov (25), Leier (22).
D: Provorov (20), Ghost (23), AMac (30), MDZ (26), Gudas (26), Manning (26)
Now that was a team with no future. Which is why 2017-18 was a fluke.

G - Couts - Voracek, all three revived by playing together on a top line
but Simmonds, Filppula, TK, Raffl, Patrick, Weal, Laughton, Weise, Lehtera, Leier, Lindblom at the end of the season.
D: Provorov, Ghost, AMac, Hagg, Manning, Gudas, Sanheim
G: Elliott, Neuvirth.

The question isn't why these teams regressed, but how they made the playoffs in 2015-16, 2017-18!
The difference next year is it's much easier to turn around an under performing team than sustain an over performing team.
 

Psuhockey

Registered User
Nov 17, 2010
6,373
2,282
ummm...that's what we have been doing and few of the young players have stepped up to take the reigns.

Go look at your OLD 2 years away notes. This was supposed to be Couts, TK, Patrick, Lindlom, Frost, Farabee, Hayes, Provy, Sanheim, Myers, Hart's, etc... team.....with G, Jake and JVR as the vets playing a support role.

Now go look who leads us in points....JVR, Jake and Giroux. Who leads us in ES points-Jake, JVR and Giroux.

Out "vets" are still carrying this team because the kids have not been good enough. We are supposed to have a great defense by now...and none can be trusted to actually play good defense on a nightly basis...let alone great defense. Add in Hart's implosion and you get Elliot(vet) being our best goalie this year.

Then we went and add 3 vet coaches to get the stench of Hak off us...and they have done jack shit to get the best out of the players like good coaches do. We have a 28th ranked PK, a PP that the talent carries us and coaches has added nothing, and a head coach who continually benches good players when playing well..."to send a message". Good coaches put players into the best situation to succeed. Our coaches have not done that.

But hey...in 1 year we could be without Giroux and Couts and maybe JVR/Jake due to the ED. We wasted our 2 best players since Lindros. We are coming up on 7 years since Hextall was hired(in May) and are about to go into year 8. We have no star to replace Giroux. We have no #1Dman who controls the game. Hell..we have no top 30 goalie let alone a top one.

This offseason shit needs to get done and we are very likely to do shit things if all the other smaller moves are any indication. Going to be a fun ride on the flume of shit.

Oh...and I won't bother going back and forth with you today as i don't have the desire. Let's all hope a miracle happens and Fletch does something good.
It will be at least a decade before the Flyers can accomplish getting to the playoffs in consecutive years since the last time they did it. And the Flyers are lucky that there vets haven’t hit the wall yet but that’s coming. I don’t see any move in the offseason that’s going to fix this mess especially with management unable to admit the current situation they are in.
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
Sponsor
May 8, 2011
37,544
74,542
Philadelphia, Pa
Myers and Hart regressing is a setback.
Frost, Lindblom and Patrick is the Hockey Gods' punishment for the failure to sacrifice Taryn to them, they're old fashioned Gods.

But this also means this team is poised for a quick turnaround, go back to 2016-17:
Voracek (27) and Couts (24) were the only forwards with 30+ ES points, G (29) was hobbled, Schenn (25) was traded that offseason, Simmonds (27) was the PP rock but a marginal 2nd line forward, TK (19) had 24 ES points as a rookie, but the rest of the forwards: Read (30), Raffl (28), Cousins (23), Weise (28), VdV (29), PEB (31) - lost in ED, Lyubimov (25), Leier (22).
D: Provorov (20), Ghost (23), AMac (30), MDZ (26), Gudas (26), Manning (26)
Now that was a team with no future. Which is why 2017-18 was a fluke.

G - Couts - Voracek, all three revived by playing together on a top line
but Simmonds, Filppula, TK, Raffl, Patrick, Weal, Laughton, Weise, Lehtera, Leier, Lindblom at the end of the season.
D: Provorov, Ghost, AMac, Hagg, Manning, Gudas, Sanheim
G: Elliott, Neuvirth.

The question isn't why these teams regressed, but how they made the playoffs in 2015-16, 2017-18!
The difference next year is it's much easier to turn around an under performing team than sustain an over performing team.

They made the playoffs by a player who you deem unable to get the team across the line doing just that. Unfortunately no one can do that for a whole season and the playoffs. Everyone runs out of gas at some point
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
Reminder....there was a team that had no draft picks before 2017, had to pick the scraps of other teams, and has:

2 divisional wins
2 Conference Finals
1 Stanley Cup appearance
6 playoff round wins
Is going to finish 1-2 in it's division this year

Meanwhile, next year we start year 8 of the "rebuild"
 

TCTC

Registered User
Mar 25, 2013
13,073
9,561
Reminder....there was a team that had no draft picks before 2017, had to pick the scraps of other teams, and has:

2 divisional wins
2 Conference Finals
1 Stanley Cup appearance
6 playoff round wins
Is going to finish 1-2 in it's division this year

Meanwhile, next year we start year 8 of the "rebuild"
Vegas did the exact opposite of what we've been doing for almost a decade. They were extremely aggressive. They weren't afraid to make big moves and go after the big FA's.
Imagine if they had Hextall as their first GM. They probably would be one of the most boring teams in the league and everyone would be talking about them being a complete failure of an expansion team.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
Vegas did the exact opposite of what we've been doing for almost a decade. They were extremely aggressive. They weren't afraid to make big moves and go after the big FA's.
Imagine if they had Hextall as their first GM. They probably would be one of the most boring teams in the league and everyone would be talking about them being a complete failure of an expansion team.
No, they would be applauding his "patience".

It's almost like there is more than 1 way to build a good team. It starts with good Mgt....something we don't have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LorneMalvo

Psuhockey

Registered User
Nov 17, 2010
6,373
2,282
Reminder....there was a team that had no draft picks before 2017, had to pick the scraps of other teams, and has:

2 divisional wins
2 Conference Finals
1 Stanley Cup appearance
6 playoff round wins
Is going to finish 1-2 in it's division this year

Meanwhile, next year we start year 8 of the "rebuild"
The plan was sound. The drafting wasn’t good enough for it to work. Fans can explain it away anyway they want ie injuries, development, coaching, but Hextall had 8 first round picks, 6 second round picks and 42 picks overall and this is still a fringe playoff team as it was when he took over 7 years ago. No #1 center in there and no #1 defender in there and there wasn’t any other plan to fill those positions except through drafting. Add horrible choices in coaches on top of it and it’s no wonder there has been no progress.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tripod

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Vegas got lucky, GMs had no experience with an ED, so they were able to fleece some teams.

Just as important, they got 30 players, so they could take a lot of chances with "fliers," picked some guys to flip them and frankly, got lucky with a few picks outplaying anyone's expectations - but it helps when you get a lot of lottery tickets. If Fleury doesn't revive his career, are they that smart?

Seattle will have a tougher go, GMs have been preparing the last year or so, one reason deals have been hard to make, and why there will be a flood of trades AFTER the ED this summer. They are more likely to be offered more high contract veterans and fewer underachieving but high ceiling prospects.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
52,627
85,324
Vegas is an example of what is possible when you don’t have any crippling contracts on the books. They put together a contender right away. Now players are willing to take a discount to play there because the team is good, it’s a great place to live, and it’s tax free.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
The plan was sound. The drafting wasn’t good enough for it to work. Fans can explain it away anyway they want ie injuries, development, coaching, but Hextall had 8 first round picks, 6 second round picks and 42 picks overall and this is still a fringe playoff team as it was when he took over 7 years ago. No #1 center in there and no #1 defender in there and there wasn’t any other plan to fill those positions except through drafting. Add horrible choices in coaches on top of it and it’s no wonder there has been no progress.

If you look at most teams that successfully rebuild, they have a few years in the wilderness where they accumulate multiple top picks to form the core of the new team, we got Provorov and Patrick (bad luck). Other than that, #11 (York and Brink), #14 Farabee, #17 Sanheim, #19 JOB, were our picks in the top 20 since 2014. Not a bad group, but no game changers. Couts #8, Voracek #7, we need to hit on a Giroux #22.

In the 20s, TK #24, Frost #27, missed on Rubtsov #24. 2nd rd, #36 Laberge, #35 Ratcliffe, #50 Ginning, but he did also land Hart #48, Allison #52, NAK #48.

I think the problem was simple, Snider didn't want to spend 5 years rebuilding so Holmgren wasted 2 years (depreciating veteran assets) and Hextall couldn't do a full bore tear down (Schenn was the only major move other than dumping Coburn, Kimmo, etc).

Fortunately, the drafting since 2014 (and continued under Fletcher) has been so good they've accumulated a lot of assets. Just need a consolidation trade or two.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
The last 2 years, we have drafted 12 players.....meanwhile Toronto drafted 12 just last year.

We have done a shit job of accumulating assets both in regards to pick AND at the NHL level to help the team win.

Accumulating depth assets all while wasting the decade of a prime Giroux, Jake, Couts, Simmonds, Schenn(luckily re-invested).

G- a top C and multiple top finisher in Pts
Jake-A top RWer
Simmonds- best PP net guy
Couts- Seleke level C

But it's ok...we have Wisdom, Foerster, Laczynski and Allison coming.

:confused:
 
Last edited:

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
The last 2 years, we have drafted 12 players.....meanwhile Toronto drafted 12 just last year.

We have done a shit job of accumulating assets both in regards to pick AND at the NHL level to help the team win.

Yes, they had 3 6ths and 3 7ths.
We traded our 2 7ths to move up and take Wisdom and Desnoyers.
Which was the better strategy?
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
Yes, they had 3 6ths and 3 7ths.
We traded our 2 7ths to move up and take Wisdom and Desnoyers.
Which was the better strategy?
No...that's not what happened.

We traded 2 7th's to move up to 5th rd to take Desnoyers
We traded a 4th + 5th to move up and take Wisdom

Hope you don't look at what the Leafs did like trading DOWN to the 3rd round to select the WJC top Dman this year.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
No...that's not what happened.

We traded 2 7th's to move up to 5th rd to take Desnoyers
We traded a 4th + 5th to move up and take Wisdom

Hope you don't look at what the Leafs did like trading DOWN to the 3rd round to select the WJC top Dman this year.

The net impact of the two deals was to trade the 7ths to take Wisdom and Desnoyers. I'd say that was a good use of assets.
 
  • Like
Reactions: phil162888

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
The net impact of the two deals was to trade the 7ths to take Wisdom and Desnoyers. I'd say that was a good use of assets.
No...the trade was 2 7th's for Desnoyers. You are ignoring trading a 4th and a 5th for Wisdom to make it sound better by just saying 2 7ths. It's shit like this that you do all the time.

Just like the Leafs dropping DOWN to then select the WJC best Dman later than our 2nd rd Dman was a great use of assets.

And now we sit with our 5 picks from the draft while the Leafs sit with their 12 picks to see who had the better draft.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->