Confirmed Signing with Link: [TBL] Yanni Gourde extended (6 years, $5.166M AAV)

[God King Fudge]

Palat and Killorn have full ntc. So good luck with those. Killorn will move to mntc in 2020, while Palat drops to mntc in 2021, same as Johnson. Callahan can deal to half the league. I suspect Miller will be the next guy out after Callahan.

Yeah I think it'll be Miller too, but it should be Palat. Palat had 3 goals the last 4 months of the season. He actively hurt whatever line he was on. Getting rid of him is more important than Callahan to me.

 

[NDiesel]

dont want to get rid of any of those guys

nor cirelli joseph or hedman (ik i made a thread about that but that was more of a "what if, then what would we get back" thread)

edit: dont want to lose gourde either

Obviously small sample size but noticed Killorn take some pretty untimely penalties in the offensive zone these playoffs, is that something normal with him?

 

[StreetHawk]

Yeah I think it'll be Miller too, but it should be Palat. Palat had 3 goals the last 4 months of the season. He actively hurt whatever line he was on. Getting rid of him is more important than Callahan to me.

Contracts are what they are. If teams ask guys with full ntc to waive the list they get is going to be very short, like 3-5 teams maximum. Price of signing them at the time they did.

 

[God King Fudge]

Right. Still important they try and get of dead weight regardless. Palat is dead weight.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Sometimes players who get NTCs have them retroactively added to the year of the contract they are playing out.

It doesn't seem to be something that gets publicized unless there is a rare occasion where a player who was just extended winds up in trade speculation. This happened with Carey Price. A big topic in the media was whether MTL should trade him, and we then learned that his NMC from his extension was added on to the final year of his then current contract.

Given that Gourde was not playing out an RFA year (he became a group 6 UFA in 2017), I wonder if the NTC from the extension was added to his current deal. Given Tampa's cap crunch, it would make sense for his agent to project to the summer and ask for that as part of an extension.

If that's the case, the Lightning will be incredibly limited in who they can move to free up cap. This is assuming that nobody is willing to waive their NTC.

 

[StreetHawk]

Sometimes players who get NTCs have them retroactively added to the year of the contract they are playing out.

It doesn't seem to be something that gets publicized unless there is a rare occasion where a player who was just extended winds up in trade speculation. This happened with Carey Price. A big topic in the media was whether MTL should trade him, and we then learned that his NMC from his extension was added on to the final year of his then current contract.

Given that Gourde was not playing out an RFA year (he became a group 6 UFA in 2017), I wonder if the NTC from the extension was added to his current deal. Given Tampa's cap crunch, it would make sense for his agent to project to the summer and ask for that as part of an extension.

If that's the case, the Lightning will be incredibly limited in who they can move to free up cap. This is assuming that nobody is willing to waive their NTC.

Cap friendly doesn’t show him with a ntc right now. Kicks in on July 1. Seguin also got the nmc added to his current deal too.

I’ve always thought it would be Callahan, Miller then Gourde based on the trade protection that TB would have to move out in that order. Once July hits Gourde is a bolt for the next 3 years however long his ntc lasts just like Killorn and the others.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Contracts are what they are. If teams ask guys with full ntc to waive the list they get is going to be very short, like 3-5 teams maximum. Price of signing them at the time they did.

I don't see why anybody in Tampa would waive. Even if I was Palat, Killorn, or Johnson, and they asked, it's not like I'd go oh no they don't want me I should waive. It's pretty clear that whoever is asked to waive is being asked because of a cap crunch not because of any bad feelings, so why not politely say no I won't waive, and then stay with the contender? Why are these guys going to take potential pay cuts (taxes) to go else where when they have the leverage not to?

It makes zero sense.

Tampa will trade Miller+Callahan, then bridge point 2-3 years at a generous enough AAV but not the 11+ Matthews just got on a 5 year deal. I'd say 2 years, but the prospect of a lockout might make that undesirable for Point. Johnson and Palat can be dealt 2 years from now since their NTCs become partial NTCs and the cap will also be at close to 90 million.

The only way I don't see them going that route is if they do something radical and trade either Point or Kucherov for something based around Kakko or Hughes and then turn around and use that freed up money to add one of the top free agent stars like Karlsson. Of course, that's a very EA NHL situation that is more of a wild scenario than anything rooted in reality.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Cap friendly doesn’t show him with a ntc right now. Kicks in on July 1. Seguin also got the nmc added to his current deal too.

I’ve always thought it would be Callahan, Miller then Gourde based on the trade protection that TB would have to move out in that order. Once July hits Gourde is a bolt for the next 3 years however long his ntc lasts just like Killorn and the others.

I know they don't, but they did not for Price either until it game out months later as a result of trade speculation in the media.

There's no way to know how common adding a NTC is, but we know it happens and it isn't always publicized. So it's worth speculating about.

 

[StreetHawk]

I know they don't, but they did not for Price either until it game out months later as a result of trade speculation in the media.

There's no way to know how common adding a NTC is, but we know it happens and it isn't always publicized. So it's worth speculating about.

Seguin has one for this year. I recall Friedman mentioning before during the season right after the President Lites rant about him and Benn. That’s when Friedman said that Seguin had the nmc added into the final year of his current contract.

 

[phil162888]

Who are all of these bad contracts? All of Johnson/Miller/Gourde are on very reasonable contracts. Palat has a bad year so he’s a bit tougher but has been great in the past.

Problem is there all slightly overpaid (not grossly overpaid). Bolts went for long term home runs instead of bridge type deals with smaller cap hits. I don't know too many teams that would be dying to get their hands on any of the 5 or 6 guys they have between 4-6 million. They have to get rid of two if not three of those (think its going to be harder than one thinks).

My Flyers did them a huge solid (stupid move) in taking Flip off their hands the last time they were in cap hell. Don't think it will be as easy but I may be wrong.
I Like the team I wanted them to win it this year TBH just think now that they didn't their in a difficult spot similar to Leafs and Jets (diff being those teams are still in the hunt this year)

 

[Djp]

Sometimes players who get NTCs have them retroactively added to the year of the contract they are playing out.

under the CBA a player needs to have 7 complete years or be 27 for any sort of NTC/NMC to take effect.

For example players like Mcdavid on a long term contract have to wait till 7 years for any of this to apply. In mcDavid case that is 2022-23 season

If you trade a player prior tot his kicking in the new team can decide to not honor it.

Its unclear if a player already has a NMC /NTC and gets traded if that can still be in effect post trade.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

i dont see killorn as an issue at all. also callahan has been playing well lately and only has 1 more year so to me hes not as big an issue as palat johnson or miller

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Problem is there all slightly overpaid (not grossly overpaid). Bolts went for long term home runs instead of bridge type deals with smaller cap hits. I don't know too many teams that would be dying to get their hands on any of the 5 or 6 guys they have between 4-6 million. They have to get rid of two if not three of those (think its going to be harder than one thinks).

My Flyers did them a huge solid (stupid move) in taking Flip off their hands the last time they were in cap hell. Don't think it will be as easy but I may be wrong.
I Like the team I wanted them to win it this year TBH just think now that they didn't their in a difficult spot similar to Leafs and Jets (diff being those teams are still in the hunt this year)

gourde and killorn are more than worth their deals, its the other 3 that are the problem

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Obviously small sample size but noticed Killorn take some pretty untimely penalties in the offensive zone these playoffs, is that something normal with him?

he takes a lot of penalties yeah. only real weakness in his game and usually its bc of his lack of speed he trips or hooks someone whos skating by him. but outside of speed hes basically got everything else

 

[Djp]

You're a little all over the place here. MLB, NFL, and NHL players are completely different when it comes to contracts, free agency, and their respective CBA's.

A 40-50 point player is not the same as a NFL player who goes unsigned through free agency. The 40-50 point player will always get a new contract. The only was they will only sign for 1-2 years is if they are getting older (moving toward retirement). If they are in their prime, teams will sign them for mid-long term.

The main point is, every team needs these type of players. Would Tampa rather sign Yanni Gourde for 6 years and 5 million to play on the 2nd or 3rd line or go out and attempt to sign a similar player to do the same thing?

You are obviously missing my point....

baseball and football are expecting players to contribute to the team sooner because they want work on a cheaper contract vs paying a player alot more to do the same thing.

Hockey hasnt not goten to this point yet. The issue I am saying is that it WILL happen.

teams will look at the avg joe player who gets 30-50 points and say i think my 1st/2md round prospect playing the same position can do the same production you are doing on a cheaper amount that wheat you are asking for.

They also can look at open market and find someone who is willing to take less or sit out. team may bdget a 4C at #$1.2M, a 3W at $3M.

This gives them room to sign key players that are to replace in free agency.

 

[mpp9]

You're telling me Palat, Johnson and Miller are readily available?

Count this Pens fan as interested. Badly need 2nd line talent on the wing.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

You're telling me Palat, Johnson and Miller are readily available?

Count this Pens fan as interested. Badly need 2nd line talent on the wing.

a 2nd for each of them take your pick

 

[Dooble08]

You are obviously missing my point....

baseball and football are expecting players to contribute to the team sooner because they want work on a cheaper contract vs paying a player alot more to do the same thing.

Hockey hasnt not goten to this point yet. The issue I am saying is that it WILL happen.

teams will look at the avg joe player who gets 30-50 points and say i think my 1st/2md round prospect playing the same position can do the same production you are doing on a cheaper amount that wheat you are asking for.

They also can look at open market and find someone who is willing to take less or sit out. team may bdget a 4C at #$1.2M, a 3W at $3M.

This gives them room to sign key players that are to replace in free agency.

That still isn't necessarily true. Both Football and Baseball give a team 5 years of control where Hockey only gives 3. Football has always been a sport where you play in the NFL almost directly after being drafted. Baseball (if you are a star player) you typically spend 2 years in the minors before jumping into the MLB. Hockey (as a 1st round pick) you can either be in the NHL immediately, in 1 year, or 2 + years.

The main problem is that an 18 year old isn't ready to play against other NHL players (in the majority of cases). If you look at the 2018 NHL draft, only 4 players played in their rookie seasons. In baseball, players are typically 20-23 when they start their MLB rookie season. In the NFL it's around 22-23. So a mid-late 1st or 2nd round pick can't actually do the same job at the moment.

Teams would rather look in house then sign players on the free agency market. There is a shift in baseball, but when looking at hockey or football, most free agents sign within the first month of free agency.

 

[Djp]

That still isn't necessarily true. Both Football and Baseball give a team 5 years of control where Hockey only gives 3. Football has always been a sport where you play in the NFL almost directly after being drafted. Baseball (if you are a star player) you typically spend 2 years in the minors before jumping into the MLB. Hockey (as a 1st round pick) you can either be in the NHL immediately, in 1 year, or 2 + years.

The main problem is that an 18 year old isn't ready to play against other NHL players (in the majority of cases). If you look at the 2018 NHL draft, only 4 players played in their rookie seasons. In baseball, players are typically 20-23 when they start their MLB rookie season. In the NFL it's around 22-23. So a mid-late 1st or 2nd round pick can't actually do the same job at the moment.

Teams would rather look in house then sign players on the free agency market. There is a shift in baseball, but when looking at hockey or football, most free agents sign within the first month of free agency.

time line in baseball is about the same --around 7 pro years.

in football--college is ELC years. its 4-5 yrs after draft

You put a hockey player into ELC for 3 years. team has him after for 4-5 years depending on birthday. these 4-5 yrs will be cheaper salary at similar production.

 

[Leonardo87]

i dont see killorn as an issue at all. also callahan has been playing well lately and only has 1 more year so to me hes not as big an issue as palat johnson or miller

Callahan and Cooper had a fall out. I expect Callahan to open his trade list. He is gone even if they wanted to keep him. Would not mind seeing him back with the Rangers or maybe Anaheim if Kesler is truly done and destined for LTIR.

 

[Master P]

What a strange bump.

 

[mouser]

Sometimes players who get NTCs have them retroactively added to the year of the contract they are playing out.

It doesn't seem to be something that gets publicized unless there is a rare occasion where a player who was just extended winds up in trade speculation. This happened with Carey Price. A big topic in the media was whether MTL should trade him, and we then learned that his NMC from his extension was added on to the final year of his then current contract.

Given that Gourde was not playing out an RFA year (he became a group 6 UFA in 2017), I wonder if the NTC from the extension was added to his current deal. Given Tampa's cap crunch, it would make sense for his agent to project to the summer and ask for that as part of an extension.

If that's the case, the Lightning will be incredibly limited in who they can move to free up cap. This is assuming that nobody is willing to waive their NTC.

Only Group 3 UFA’s are eligible for NTC/NMC. All other UFA types such as Group 6 are ineligible.

 

[StreetHawk]

Callahan and Cooper had a fall out. I expect Callahan to open his trade list. He is gone even if they wanted to keep him. Would not mind seeing him back with the Rangers or maybe Anaheim if Kesler is truly done and destined for LTIR.

It's a 16 team list per his contract. Pretty sure all 7 CAD teams will be there. So, that's more than plenty. Issue is that the good teams can't afford the $5.8 million cap hit, so I can't see Nash/STL/Wash/Pit, etc interested cause they can't take on the cap hit. A contract has to go the other way, which TB doesn't want.

Leaves more the mid to lower level teams. Some teams aren't going to be interested. LA, no benefit to them. They have plenty of 30 somethings, need to get young. Anaheim, plenty of young forwards to integrate and have Perry/Getz/Rackell/Henrique/Silf as their veteran forwards.

TB is trying to find a trade partner who doesn't need to send back a contract, who would also be on Callahan's list. TB should be willing to take back less if they don't want to take back a contract or retain.

 

[Leonardo87]

It's a 16 team list per his contract. Pretty sure all 7 CAD teams will be there. So, that's more than plenty. Issue is that the good teams can't afford the $5.8 million cap hit, so I can't see Nash/STL/Wash/Pit, etc interested cause they can't take on the cap hit. A contract has to go the other way, which TB doesn't want.

Leaves more the mid to lower level teams. Some teams aren't going to be interested. LA, no benefit to them. They have plenty of 30 somethings, need to get young. Anaheim, plenty of young forwards to integrate and have Perry/Getz/Rackell/Henrique/Silf as their veteran forwards.

TB is trying to find a trade partner who doesn't need to send back a contract, who would also be on Callahan's list. TB should be willing to take back less if they don't want to take back a contract or retain.

Tampa can also retain some salary. If they fully retain at 50% it gives him positive trade value. Can see some of the contending teams interested if it’s like a 3 or 3.5 million cap hit. A buy out would give Tampa dead cap for two years, if they retain would even get like a late pick in return. Buy out would be the last resort. Still will have Matt Carle on the books for one more year. So it has to be fully thought out.

I mean Gourde makes sense since his NTC does not kick into July 1, I believe, same as Miller. So they both can be traded anywhere and can fetch a decent return. Moving these guys will solve a lot of Tampa’s cap issues, this year and the following year when more raises are due.

Getting back on the thread topic, I always thought Tampa signing both Miller and Gourde seemed a little off, and one was going to move, and was an insurance policy for the other. I dunno, just guessing here.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Tampa can also retain some salary. If they fully retain at 50% it gives him positive trade value.

Callahan doesn't have positive trade value. He hasn't surpassed 20 points in three years. He is not a good player anymore. When he's healthy, he's maybe a 3rd/4th line tweener and I feel that's being generous. With him being injured every season, investing nearly 3 million in cap space in him is hardly worth an asset. There are plenty of guys of his caliber who are available as FA's every year and get paid less than 3 million without giving up an asset.

Maybe Tampa could squeak out a 5th rounder if they retain 50%, strictly based on reputation and leadership value. But the likelihood is, that if Tampa can find someone to take his salary, they will be paying an asset to the team taking on his contract, not gaining one.