Confirmed with Link: [TBL/MTL] D Mikhail Sergachev + cond. 2nd (2018) for L Jonathan Drouin + cond. 6th (2018)

[The Macho King]

Kucherov didn't exactly seem happy about that deal.

It's hard to put a pretty face on this. Even if Serg becomes a good player for us, Drouin is likely to be a franchise forward for MTL. There were times last year when he was the only reason to watch the TB Lightning.

Once again - we've been overrating Drouin on this board for a looooong time. I love the kid's skill, and think he should've been given more opportunity here, but at the end of the day, he's a 53 point forward who produced the majority of his points on the PP. We're not losing peak MSL here. Maybe he develops into a PPG player, sure - but he's not a rookie anymore.

He's great at making the great play. The seeing eye pass through 4 sticks right on the tape - that's his jam. He's not great at making the good play, though. In fact - he passes up a lot of good plays to try and make a great play.

I'm not saying this trade was good or bad, but the sky is not falling because of it, either.

 

[DFC]

Once again - we've been overrating Drouin on this board for a looooong time. I love the kid's skill, and think he should've been given more opportunity here, but at the end of the day, he's a 53 point forward who produced the majority of his points on the PP. We're not losing peak MSL here. Maybe he develops into a PPG player, sure - but he's not a rookie anymore.

He's great at making the great play. The seeing eye pass through 4 sticks right on the tape - that's his jam. He's not great at making the good play, though. In fact - he passes up a lot of good plays to try and make a great play.

I'm not saying this trade was good or bad, but the sky is not falling because of it, either.

I don't think we were overrating him. I think that's just a hopeful thing to believe now that he's gone.

My guess is he hits at least 70 points with MTL. The raw skill was there, and improving. He might always be a PP specialist, but a lot of great scorers are.

I think Yzerman made the decision to trade him something like 18 months ago when he went home. And I get that. It always felt like he was never 100% part of the team after that. But I still think this is a guy who's going to put up serious numbers in the NHL, once he's given a real leash, and he's going to be doing it for arguably our biggest rival.

 

[Sky04]

Once again - we've been overrating Drouin on this board for a looooong time. I love the kid's skill, and think he should've been given more opportunity here, but at the end of the day, he's a 53 point forward who produced the majority of his points on the PP. We're not losing peak MSL here. Maybe he develops into a PPG player, sure - but he's not a rookie anymore.

He's great at making the great play. The seeing eye pass through 4 sticks right on the tape - that's his jam. He's not great at making the good play, though. In fact - he passes up a lot of good plays to try and make a great play.

I'm not saying this trade was good or bad, but the sky is not falling because of it, either.

I disagree, Drouin in the offensive zone was one of the few players who actually made the right decisions on puck plays, sure he has a tenancy to hold on too long but in terms of when to pass, shoot or throw it on net Drouin made those decisions better than every other player. Few times did he try to thread the needle when it wasn't necessary, much less than Kucherov or Johnson in that matter, and I mean I don't recall instances where we were yelling at Drouin to shoot instead of pass, can't say the same for Kuch or Johnson. I'm not hating on Kuch, he could be even better if he didn't tend to get too cute all the time.

Either way I think it's bad value, Drouin was only going up from this season and we traded him without getting anything near what his value would be in his prime. If he completely falls off the earth then dig up this post and call me out but I'd say in 2 years time his value goes on par with Kucherov at the worst. You may not be giving up MSL in his prime, but this could easily be the version of Calgary giving up on MSL a year before he broke out.

 

[Sky04]

I don't think we were overrating him. I think that's just a hopeful thing to believe now that he's gone.

My guess is he hits at least 70 points with MTL. The raw skill was there, and improving. He might always be a PP specialist, but a lot of great scorers are.

I think Yzerman made the decision to trade him something like 18 months ago when he went home. And I get that. It always felt like he was never 100% part of the team after that. But I still think this is a guy who's going to put up serious numbers in the NHL, once he's given a real leash, and he's going to be doing it for arguably our biggest rival.

A series against MTL will end on a Drouin goal or a Drouin turnover, either way I'm not why'd you put someone who could be such a threat in your division without taking anything but an overpayment, and we definitely did not get that.

 

[The Macho King]

I disagree, Drouin in the offensive zone was one of the few players who actually made the right decisions on puck plays, sure he has a tenancy to hold on too long but in terms of when to pass, shoot or throw it on net Drouin made those decisions better than every other player. Few times did he try to thread the needle when it wasn't necessary, much less than Kucherov or Johnson in that matter, and I mean I don't recall instances where we were yelling at Drouin to shoot instead of pass, can't say the same for Kuch or Johnson. I'm not hating on Kuch, he could be even better if he didn't tend to get too cute all the time.

Either way I think it's bad value, Drouin was only going up from this season and we traded him without getting anything near what his value would be in his prime. If he completely falls off the earth then dig up this post and call me out but I'd say in 2 years time his value goes on par with Kucherov at the worst. You may not be giving up MSL in his prime, but this could easily be the version of Calgary giving up on MSL a year before he broke out.

Yeah - we're overrating him.

 

[Absolut]

Kucherov didn't exactly seem happy about that deal.

He didn't. But - he didn't hold out and didn't ask for a trade either.

It's hard to put a pretty face on this. Even if Serg becomes a good player for us, Drouin is likely to be a franchise forward for MTL. There were times last year when he was the only reason to watch the TB Lightning.

I expect Drouin to blossom in Mtl. I don't know about the 'franchise forward', but he will be a wonderful complementary piece at least. At best, who knows, franchise player a possibility. But don't sell Sergachev short. There is massive potential there. In a year, the deal may be Drouin (and his salary) for Sergachev + Gusev. A lot prettier, right?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I disagree, Drouin in the offensive zone was one of the few players who actually made the right decisions on puck plays, sure he has a tenancy to hold on too long but in terms of when to pass, shoot or throw it on net Drouin made those decisions better than every other player. Few times did he try to thread the needle when it wasn't necessary, much less than Kucherov or Johnson in that matter, and I mean I don't recall instances where we were yelling at Drouin to shoot instead of pass, can't say the same for Kuch or Johnson. I'm not hating on Kuch, he could be even better if he didn't tend to get too cute all the time.

Either way I think it's bad value, Drouin was only going up from this season and we traded him without getting anything near what his value would be in his prime. If he completely falls off the earth then dig up this post and call me out but I'd say in 2 years time his value goes on par with Kucherov at the worst. You may not be giving up MSL in his prime, but this could easily be the version of Calgary giving up on MSL a year before he broke out.

Well put, Sky.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

He didn't. But - he didn't hold out and didn't ask for a trade either.

I expect Drouin to blossom in Mtl. I don't know about the 'franchise forward', but he will be a wonderful complementary piece at least. At best, who knows, franchise player a possibility. But don't sell Sergachev short. There is massive potential there. In a year, the deal may be Drouin (and his salary) for Sergachev + Gusev. A lot prettier, right?

He'll be a franchise forward.

However, Serg may become a franchise defenseman.

 

[Sky04]

Yeah - we're overrating him.

The last person we rated this highly was Kucherov who showed less skill than what Drouin has so far.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Which wingers are franchise forwards? Ovechkin and Kane, Drouin won't have multiple Richards or 50+ goals seasons, he won't be a ppg player who wins a Ross or Hart. He'll be a 25 - 50 guy at his best but mostly around a 70 point forward who aren't franchise forwards. Maybe he'll be a Kessel where he may be the best forward for the franchise but the franchise isn't very good.

I don't expect Sergachev to be a franchise defenseman but a #2. Top line winger vs top pair defenseman. We needed another top pair defenseman more than a top line winger.

 

[The Macho King]

The last person we rated this highly was Kucherov who showed less skill than what Drouin has so far.

And more brains. Kucherov always looked sharp.

Seriously, you guys are out to lunch right now. For one - Kucherov is what, one year older than Drouin? And other than Kucherov's rookie season, Drouin still hasn't produced as much as him. And Kucherov didn't get top PP time until what... this year right?

Drouin is really skilled. So was ****ing Filatov. There's more to succeeding in this league - especially being elite in this league - than pure skill. Drouin certainly has the tools to be great, but as of yet I haven't seen the toolbox that makes it a guarantee.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Which wingers are franchise forwards? Ovechkin and Kane, Drouin won't have multiple Richards or 50+ goals seasons, he won't be a ppg player who wins a Ross or Hart. He'll be a 25 - 50 guy at his best but mostly around a 70 point forward who aren't franchise forwards. Maybe he'll be a Kessel where he may be the best forward for the franchise but the franchise isn't very good.

I don't expect Sergachev to be a franchise defenseman but a #2. Top line winger vs top pair defenseman. We needed another top pair defenseman more than a top line winger.

You are underrating both of them. Drouin looks like an 80-90 point winger and Serg looks like a true #1 defenseman.

(potential-wise)

 

[DFC]

Which wingers are franchise forwards? Ovechkin and Kane, Drouin won't have multiple Richards or 50+ goals seasons, he won't be a ppg player who wins a Ross or Hart. He'll be a 25 - 50 guy at his best but mostly around a 70 point forward who aren't franchise forwards. Maybe he'll be a Kessel where he may be the best forward for the franchise but the franchise isn't very good.

I don't expect Sergachev to be a franchise defenseman but a #2. Top line winger vs top pair defenseman. We needed another top pair defenseman more than a top line winger.

He'll be the best forward for the franchise, and there's a really strong chance he'll consistently put up big points. Kessel, for whatever else he was, was a franchise forward in Toronto.

Drouin's skillset is just too good to hold down (much as JC liked to try). If only because he's french, MTL is going to want him putting up big flashy points. And he'll oblige. Very, very good for their franchise to have one of the most exciting players in the NHL who's also francophone.

It's almost like when we sent Gudas to Philly. The mothership called him home.

 

[Sky04]

Which wingers are franchise forwards? Ovechkin and Kane, Drouin won't have multiple Richards or 50+ goals seasons, he won't be a ppg player who wins a Ross or Hart. He'll be a 25 - 50 guy at his best but mostly around a 70 point forward who aren't franchise forwards. Maybe he'll be a Kessel where he may be the best forward for the franchise but the franchise isn't very good.

I don't expect Sergachev to be a franchise defenseman but a #2. Top line winger vs top pair defenseman. We needed another top pair defenseman more than a top line winger.

We needed one this season not 4 years from now in which a ton of things could change. Drouin is significantly closer his prime which could be any of the upcoming seasons than Sergachev is, the fact that we traded Drouin for anything less than immediate roster help is a loss, at least in the short term (which we're supposedly a cup contender) makes it worse.

Even if you make the argument that we grab a another top-4 defense man this season that wouldn't have any barring on the Drouin trade as we have the capspace to fit them with Garrison out of the way and assets that wouldn't be involving Drouin, so in all likelihood we could've started this season with an upgraded defenseman and 27 on the roster.

 

[DFC]

And more brains. Kucherov always looked sharp.

Seriously, you guys are out to lunch right now. For one - Kucherov is what, one year older than Drouin? And other than Kucherov's rookie season, Drouin still hasn't produced as much as him. And Kucherov didn't get top PP time until what... this year right?

Drouin is really skilled. So was ****ing Filatov. There's more to succeeding in this league - especially being elite in this league - than pure skill. Drouin certainly has the tools to be great, but as of yet I haven't seen the toolbox that makes it a guarantee.

I don't think that's quite fair. When Drouin was paired with guys who were on his creative level (Hedman, Kucherov) we saw some magic.

Kucherov had the benefit of the Triplets in his breakout year. That doesn't happen to everyone.

I'm also concerned about the PP. Drouin-Hedman-Kucherov were pure gold, but I don't think there's another guy in the organization who can take Drouin's spot on that wing. Hopefully, if we acquire a new D, we'll be able to have a similar success rate with a new look.

 

[Sky04]

And more brains. Kucherov always looked sharp.

Seriously, you guys are out to lunch right now. For one - Kucherov is what, one year older than Drouin? And other than Kucherov's rookie season, Drouin still hasn't produced as much as him. And Kucherov didn't get top PP time until what... this year right?

Drouin is really skilled. So was ****ing Filatov. There's more to succeeding in this league - especially being elite in this league - than pure skill. Drouin certainly has the tools to be great, but as of yet I haven't seen the toolbox that makes it a guarantee.

Kucherov played with Palat and Johnson at their best and had 12 more points in 13 more games that season, miles better right.. had he played in the same situation as Drouin this year, production would've likely been the same.

I mean I get that it's common to start bashing a player once they're off the roster but comparing Drouin to Filatov, ok.

 

[Sky04]

I don't think that's quite fair. When Drouin was paired with guys who were on his creative level (Hedman, Kucherov) we saw some magic.

Kucherov had the benefit of the Triplets in his breakout year. That doesn't happen to everyone.

I'm also concerned about the PP. Drouin-Hedman-Kucherov were pure gold, but I don't think there's another guy in the organization who can take Drouin's spot on that wing. Hopefully, if we acquire a new D, we'll be able to have a similar success rate with a new look.

Kucherov had 66 points the year after the breakout year, Drouin can easily reach that in MTL this season.

 

[The Macho King]

Kucherov played with Palat and Johnson at their best and had 12 more points in 13 more games that season, miles better right.. had he played in the same situation as Drouin this year, production would've likely been the same.

I mean I get that it's common to start bashing a player once they're off the roster but comparing Drouin to Filatov, ok.

I'm not bashing Drouin at all. I haven't said a negative thing about him. I haven't said I think it's a good trade. I'm saying you all are overrating the hell out of Drouin. Drouin had 27 EV points this year. Kucherov in his first real season had 50 EV points.

I get that he was in a better position than Drouin, but he did that with like 14 minutes a night and next to zero PP time (and no top PP time). You all are acting like we traded Kucherov after that season, which Drouin has done nothing comparable to.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Drouin had 6 more ES points than Namestnikov, let that sink in.

 

[Sky04]

I'm not bashing Drouin at all. I haven't said a negative thing about him. I haven't said I think it's a good trade. I'm saying you all are overrating the hell out of Drouin. Drouin had 27 EV points this year. Kucherov in his first real season had 50 EV points.

I get that he was in a better position than Drouin, but he did that with like 14 minutes a night and next to zero PP time (and no top PP time). You all are acting like we traded Kucherov after that season, which Drouin has done nothing comparable to.

Kuch averaged 2:12 mins per game on the PP... and again 15 mins a night with Palat and Johnson at their best (Kuch every had a linemate who outscored him that year...) vs 17 minutes a night with Killorn, Fil and Boyle... their season is closer than you make it seem.

 

[Sky04]

Drouin had 6 more ES points than Namestnikov, let that sink in.

Namesnitkov most common linemates on ice 5v5...Nikita Kucherov and Victor Hedman hmm.......

 

[Leonardo87]

Drouin had 6 more ES points than Namestnikov, let that sink in.

Drouin had also been racking in assists by feeding Kucherov on the PP. So that certainly helped his total production numbers.

 

[Sky04]

Drouin had also been racking in assists by feeding Kucherov on the PP. So that certainly helped his total production numbers.

Because being good on the PP is such an easy task, no wonder the Lightning haven't had any PP issues in recent years.

 

[RDTBay4]

Drouin was a bum. I'm glad he's gone considering what we got in return.

 

[Absolut]

Which wingers are franchise forwards? Ovechkin and Kane, Drouin won't have multiple Richards or 50+ goals seasons, he won't be a ppg player who wins a Ross or Hart. He'll be a 25 - 50 guy at his best but mostly around a 70 point forward who aren't franchise forwards. Maybe he'll be a Kessel where he may be the best forward for the franchise but the franchise isn't very good.

I don't expect Sergachev to be a franchise defenseman but a #2. Top line winger vs top pair defenseman. We needed another top pair defenseman more than a top line winger.

Sergachev's potential is top-4. That can be a variety of things.

Losing Drouin is certainly more than losing a winger. He was the second (third, if you can Stamkos) most dangerous player on this team. Nobody else came close to the top-3 in being able to create their own chances. Drouin has the ability to wear down the opposing D. Having said that, until he has two 70-point seasons, I won't label him "a franchise player." The outcome of the trade will depend of how well the floundering 2/3 of the triplets perform next year, and whether Stamkos can stay healthy.