News Article: TBL chasing Karlsson is way for Wings to get Johnson

[StargateSG1]

Hear what? His ankles and groin are long standing issues.

I am pretty sure the doctors will do an "alien probe" on him, before signing him for next season.

 

[StargateSG1]

The Red Wings print money, they aren't struggling.

Those are all down, but they still easily make a profit and the value of the franchise is still increasing.

I think you need to research it more, in regards to the "operating income" topic.
Franchise value, yes, stable.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think you need to research it more, in regards to the "operating income" topic.
Franchise value, yes, stable.

I think you need to understand how they assume losses and what they shift around within the Ilitch family empire. The idea that the Wings aren't still a money making machine is pretty laughable. How much do you think the LCA raised money for the Ilitch family in terms of personal wealth? How do you think they do before applying tax experts to lean what they claim and everything else involved. They can claim whatever they want, they make a fortune off the Wings, none of the O6 teams have trouble making a profit. Bill Wirtz lied about that for years, creative accounting is something else but if you honestly believe the Wings aren't bringing in revenue I don't know what to tell you. They wouldn't be bringing in an Yzerman then (while initially giving Holland a raise) and we wouldn't be chasing Karlsson or talking about adding money. That isn't what actual struggling teams do.

But let's use your own source

Detroit Red Wings on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

And again that is just what they let you see...

 

[StargateSG1]

I think you need to understand how they assume losses and what they shift around within the Ilitch family empire. The idea that the Wings aren't still a money making machine is pretty laughable. How much do you think the LCA raised money for the Ilitch family in terms of personal wealth? How do you think they do before applying tax experts to lean what they claim and everything else involved. They can claim whatever they want, they make a fortune off the Wings, none of the O6 teams have trouble making a profit. Bill Wirtz lied about that for years, creative accounting is something else but if you honestly believe the Wings aren't bringing in revenue I don't know what to tell you. They wouldn't be bringing in an Yzerman then (while initially giving Holland a raise) and we wouldn't be chasing Karlsson or talking about adding money. That isn't what actual struggling teams do.

If you think Wings still "Sell out every game", I am done talking to you, "genius".
Empty LCA seats don't buy $10 beers.

 

[Shaman464]

I think you need to understand how they assume losses and what they shift around within the Ilitch family empire. The idea that the Wings aren't still a money making machine is pretty laughable. How much do you think the LCA raised money for the Ilitch family in terms of personal wealth? How do you think they do before applying tax experts to lean what they claim and everything else involved. They can claim whatever they want, they make a fortune off the Wings, none of the O6 teams have trouble making a profit. Bill Wirtz lied about that for years, creative accounting is something else but if you honestly believe the Wings aren't bringing in revenue I don't know what to tell you. They wouldn't be bringing in an Yzerman then (while initially giving Holland a raise) and we wouldn't be chasing Karlsson or talking about adding money. That isn't what actual struggling teams do.

Meh, even a sports team that doesn't break even can make them money, especially when it comes time to pay the tax man. The Illitch's are making their money. It might not be from the Wings in the last few seasons, but they aren't hurting.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

If you think Wings still "Sell out every game", I am done talking to you, "genius".
Empty LCA seats don't buy $10 beers.

So how do you interpret your own source showing them making money hand over fist?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Meh, even a sports team that doesn't break even can make them money, especially when it comes time to pay the tax man. The Illitch's are making their money. It might not be from the Wings in the last few seasons, but they aren't hurting.

Could be, but in this case they get their money back basically on gate and vending pretty easily. Keep in mind Wings merchandise still doesn't struggle either as they are an iconic brand in the NHL. This team isn't losing money, they aren't even close to doing it. They also have another TV contract coming up, they are about to be actually even more profitable. Currently they net a reported 25 million from Fox Sports for their rights a season. There is just no way until the cap starts scratching $120 million that this team is in deep trouble. Keep in mind their chunks of revenue sharing, the league media contracts, expansion. It is laughable to think this team is anywhere near the red.

 

[StargateSG1]

Meh, even a sports team that doesn't break even can make them money, especially when it comes time to pay the tax man. The Illitch's are making their money. It might not be from the Wings in the last few seasons, but they aren't hurting.

Original 6 will always be valuable, and they have enough "write offs" to make money.
But they have been hurting to make money from the Wings games for a while now.
Local TV viewership dipped in double digits for years (Read 30+ %). Effects add revenue big time.
It might change now, that there is "hope".

 

[Shaman464]

I think you need to understand how they assume losses and what they shift around within the Ilitch family empire. The idea that the Wings aren't still a money making machine is pretty laughable. How much do you think the LCA raised money for the Ilitch family in terms of personal wealth? How do you think they do before applying tax experts to lean what they claim and everything else involved. They can claim whatever they want, they make a fortune off the Wings, none of the O6 teams have trouble making a profit. Bill Wirtz lied about that for years, creative accounting is something else but if you honestly believe the Wings aren't bringing in revenue I don't know what to tell you. They wouldn't be bringing in an Yzerman then (while initially giving Holland a raise) and we wouldn't be chasing Karlsson or talking about adding money. That isn't what actual struggling teams do.

But let's use your own source

Detroit Red Wings on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

And again that is just what they let you see...

They are making 33 million dollars a year before taxes, debt payments, and other expenses. Those other expenses include the 12 million a year they pay to the DDA, and deferred costs for the 400 million they paid for the LCA.

 

[StargateSG1]

They are making 33 million dollars a year before taxes, debt payments, and other expenses. Those other expenses include the 12 million a year they pay to the DDA, and deferred costs for the 400 million they paid for the LCA.

3 years ago, Forbes said they had operating income of 5 million, it dipped big time since then with the new empty arena.

 

[Shaman464]

3 years ago, Forbes said they had operating income of 5 million, it dipped big time since then with the new empty arena.

This year they had it a 33 million, but, there's a lot that they omit and I would be surprised if their actual income isn't closer to 0 than it is to 33 million.

 

[StargateSG1]

This year they had it a 33 million, but, there's a lot that they omit and I would be surprised if their actual income isn't closer to 0 than it is to 33 million.

They were also claiming they are still "selling out", while covering the empty seats in black seat covers

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

As far as I'm concerned Karlsson isn't what he used to be, and some GM will pay him what he wants...No thanks.

Karlsson ranked third among NHL defensemen this year in goals above replacement (18.5), according to Evolving-Hockey, behind only John Carlson and Hedman. Among skaters in the league, Karlsson was 11th. He was the best among the Sharks.

He might be declining, but Karlsson is a top 50 force in the league in deep decline. In this spiraling season of terribleness he paced the playoffs incredibly and finished in the top 15 in the advanced offensvie analytics. So in like 5 years he likely still tips those scales as an semi-elite player because his hockey IQ is challenged by maybe 1 or 2 players, McDavid and... well yeah he might be next.

Similar to Leetch, Gonchar, Coffey and other elite offensive D-man Karlsson's points drying up are really actually not all that likely in his next contract, maybe in the last two years, I would still even doubt that.

 

[The Zermanator]

He might be declining, but Karlsson is a top 50 force in the league in deep decline. In this spiraling season of terribleness he paced the playoffs incredibly and finished in the top 15 in the advanced offensvie analytics. So in like 5 years he likely still tips those scales as an semi-elite player because his hockey IQ is challenged by maybe 1 or 2 players, McDavid and... well yeah he might be next.

Similar to Leetch, Gonchar, Coffey and other elite offensive D-man Karlsson's points drying up are really actually not all that likely in his next contract, maybe in the last two years, I would still even doubt that.

Don't you see though? We have such an embarrassment of riches in the D pipeline we can afford to nitpick about one of the best players in the world! /s

 

[Ezekial]

They were also claiming they are still "selling out", while covering the empty seats in black seat covers

Some of those empty seats are paid for by corporations.

 

[Winger98]

With one team, I think the Tigers are eventually sold to Gilbert to the benefit of Detroit sports fans, I am not sure Chris is up for the kind of spending it takes in baseball.

The Wings make money and are worth a fortune. I am curious why we haven't heard much on the Ilitch owned sports network that was floating around a year ago.

The Tigers take in around $50m a year in shared league revenues and another $35m in local TV revenues. The Tigers seem to be revamping how they do business, but put a winning team on the field while grabbing $80m+ without selling a ticket, and I think the Tigers will make enough money to keep Chris happy. Meanwhile, their payroll this year is only $122m. I can't see them spending like the Yankees again, but they don't have to.

Also, have to point out that Forbes values the Tigers at $1.3 billion, and the Wings at $775 million.

 

[FMichael]

Karlsson is going to win at least one Norris during his next contract if not more

feel free to quote me on that

You got the winning lotto #'s?

On a more serious note...I'd say his best years are already in the rear view mirror.

 

[Snuggs]

If you think Wings still "Sell out every game", I am done talking to you, "genius".
Empty LCA seats don't buy $10 beers.

The T.V. & Advertising contract(s) and sports wear products(Hats/jersey/shirts) alone prolly laces their pockets enough. Not to mention the Red Wings/Illitch Family don't actually make the bulk of their money off the amount of Beers/Tickets or food they sell. That's like an early 90's/1980's model for franchises.

Tigers are seemed to be "worth" more, than the Red Wings because baseball is perceived as more valuable franchises based off all collective revenues, advertising and tv contract, etc. Stadiums fill more than arena's, etc. All basically bigger/better than the NHL's.

It's why Basketball teams are worth more than baseball teams(mostly) and why football teams are worth more than all. (mostly.)

 

[Snuggs]

I don't want Karlsson. His injury, to me, cost the Sharks big time in the St.Louis series. Now, you can't count on a guy to get injuried but when there is a good amount of history involved. An also the unknown currently of whats going on with him right now. I'd rather steer clear, spend my money more responsibly and get a guy or two that can help out without questions about health, decline, and a huge % of my cap no invested in one player. Basically everyone assumes it's gotta be an 8 year deal or so to net Karlsson, and to me, that's too long, too rich, and too risky for a great player when healthy but he's not healty, from what I've seen.

I thought he had a rough series vs St. Louis personally.

Only teams like TB/TOR/SJ possibly PIT, should be risking it all for him. If healthy they're all in position to win next season with him. Red Wings... aren't and are risking a lot of their future with no real chances early to push for a cup.

 

[Snuggs]

Could be, but in this case they get their money back basically on gate and vending pretty easily. Keep in mind Wings merchandise still doesn't struggle either as they are an iconic brand in the NHL. This team isn't losing money, they aren't even close to doing it. They also have another TV contract coming up, they are about to be actually even more profitable. Currently they net a reported 25 million from Fox Sports for their rights a season. There is just no way until the cap starts scratching $120 million that this team is in deep trouble. Keep in mind their chunks of revenue sharing, the league media contracts, expansion. It is laughable to think this team is anywhere near the red.

I just seen this before I posted an yeah. Can't agree more. I wouldn't of even posted had I read this first because you're basically saying everything I said.

 

[FMichael]

I don't want Karlsson. His injury, to me, cost the Sharks big time in the St.Louis series. Now, you can't count on a guy to get injuried but when there is a good amount of history involved. An also the unknown currently of whats going on with him right now. I'd rather steer clear, spend my money more responsibly and get a guy or two that can help out without questions about health, decline, and a huge % of my cap no invested in one player. Basically everyone assumes it's gotta be an 8 year deal or so to net Karlsson, and to me, that's too long, too rich, and too risky for a great player when healthy but he's not healty, from what I've seen.

I thought he had a rough series vs St. Louis personally.

Only teams like TB/TOR/SJ possibly PIT, should be risking it all for him. If healthy they're all in position to win next season with him. Red Wings... aren't and are risking a lot of their future with no real chances early to push for a cup.

I would be lying if I said that he wasn't a 'high-end' calibre player, but as it's been noted - these past few seasons have been cut short due to any number of injury/s, and going forward this is likely to continue.

By all means I'd be surprised, and impressed if he became a Red Wing, but at a 'reasonable' price in both term, and cap hit...Just don't think that'll happen.

 

[Heaton]

At this point in the rebuild I honestly don't know what's best. I get the idea that this team will [likely] be terrible next season and garner another top 5 pick. But I also think there's a realistic chance that we're not that bad and while I don't expect to make the playoffs, be a team just on the outside looking in.

I don't think Yzerman will make a huge splash this summer, but I would be surprised (and honestly kinda disappointed) if he stays status quo and does nothing. I think we're close enough to start making moves that aren't 100% ground up rebuild oriented. I don't know if Tyler Johnson is a guy that this team needs, but for at least the honeymoon phase, I'll trust Yzerman's decisions, much like I did for years when Holland was on his game.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

No less than getting a late 2nd & 3d OR a 2nrd+ decent to good TBL D/C prospect for Cally as the return without Johnson.

 

[Lampedampe]

He's 28 years old (will be 29 in a couple months), sure he'll make the team better and he can probably be had at a discount considering Tampa's cap situation. But it's one of those moves that i can see ultimately hurting the team long term, simply on the basis that he will make the team better but not good enough to challenge any team in the play-offs, leading to worse draft picks for no gain.

 

[Ezekial]

Or he could make us just good enough to finish 12th last and jump to first in the lottery