Speculation: Taylor Hall's value leading up to the deadline

[who_me?]

He looked like complete ass tonight against the Rangers.

He looks like Kelly Buchberger's love child.

 

[Guttersniped]

Better than playing with Jack Eichel?

Hall is a renowned lazy player who coasts on his skill and is generally been talked about as being uncoachable and a terrible influence for nearly a decade now. Worse he has been known to drag others into his sphere of smarmy laziness and was seen as a negative presence almost everywhere he played.

That year he won that Hart trophy for his Herculean effort in dragging the Devils into the playoffs, all I could think was “you lazy smarmy bastard”. I also didn’t know that being horribly snake bit, which is Hall’s only problem right now, is a personality disorder.

 

[GoldiFox]

Would it though? I'd assume it would only be teams with a good shot at the cup, so something like Tampa, Boston, Colorado, Toronto, Washington, and Vegas.

Tampa, Toronto, Washington, and Vegas will have no room to add him (at least i'm pretty sure). That would leave Colorado potentially (it would be quite tight though) and Boston.

I'd add Carolina as a possible contender with space as well. But yes, it is pretty much 2-3 teams and Hall can say "Only Boston works" which hurts his value even more. Buffalo fans should be familiar with the concept as that is why they got Skinner for a 2nd + 3rd.

Buffalo will still get value if they move him, I'd just expect it to be closer to a 2nd + B prospect than a 1st+ or blue-chip prospect. Who knows they could very well extend him instead.

 

[LeafGrief]

1st, okay prospect, and a roster player with an expiring contract for cap purposes for Hall at %50 retained. The retention is a given based on his salary. The price would be higher if the roster player coming back had term on their deal.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I was told by Sabres fans not too long ago that Hall was going to sign long term, that there was no chance Buffalo would trade him

Hmmm

 

[InfinityIggy]

Ryan (cap) + Bennett + Flames 1st (lottery protected) for Hall + 30% retention (cap)

Flames add a ‘missing piece’ up front and see if they can’t reach their potential.

Offer contingent on the Flames firing Ward and hiring an actual coach.

 

[TFHockey]

A couple points:

1) Hall and Eichel mostly haven't been linemates at even-strength. They started the year together but were separated early on and it has been Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart and Hall-Staal-Cozens lately, with a different winger here or there.

2) Being an Oilers fan that watched Hall closely from 2010-2016, I completely dispute the notion of Hall being lazy. He was the team's best player by a pretty wide margin until McDavid was drafted, and on some pretty terrible teams he managed to Corsi at just shy of 50%, netting +3 in 5 on 5 goals (261GF-258GA), while producing at a rate of 70 points per 82 games with 2 top 10 scoring finishes in the entire league over those 6 years. To my eye, he was the one making everything happen on whatever line he played on for those years. It would be fair to call him a bit soft/lazy defensively, but his forechecking and effort put into puck retrieval in the offensive zone are his bread-and-butter as a player. He came up with a lot of high-effort plays to make things happen for the team offensively, and tilted the ice positively on a lot of nights. The results as far as win-loss don't match that because he was only out there for 18-20 out of the 60 minutes in the game. I won't speak to coachability, and there is some smoke around his locker-room presence that I can't dispute though. A lot of this reputational stuff though (I think) is some immaturity (not uncommon for young, rich and famous people) and not always handling his emotions/frustrations well in his early 20s, playing on such a bad team.

To me, it feels like you're parroting some common HF rhetoric on this player without having seen them play.

I think you hit the nail on the head about Taylor Hall as a player. When he played for the Oilers he was on some pretty bad teams and was often referred to as the straw that stirs the drink when on the ice. He was a difference maker.

His issues with being coached? That is also very fair. remember the water bottle incident on the bench?

Not really HF rhetoric. I am parroting what his coaches and teammates and a lot of connected news sources said about him after he left each team he was on.

Whether parroting HF rhetoric or parroting what you've read online you're not in a position to state you know what is going on with this player. You have to actually watch him play the game. Boxed scores only tell you part of the story.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

IF i understand the rules right,,IF Buff retains half AND over half the season is played

Halls cap hit would be in the 2m range

thats not quite accurate, the acquiring team would also need to have been sitting on at LEAST $4 mil of cap space all season to fit in half of a season of Hall at 50%.

If a team was sitting at only $2MM in cap space all season, they still cant afford half a season of Hall at 50% for just half a season. The same way Halls cap hit gets pro rated by how many games he plays, the teams cap space is also calculated by how much they used on a daily basis all season.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Hall is playing 8M above replacement value. What do teams normally get for aging players playing 8M above replacement value.

Start your bidding now.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

3rd rounder

 

[Dizzay]

I'd do Kase + 2nd rounder for Hall 30% retained

 

[longtimeoilfan]

Ryan (cap) + Bennett + Flames 1st (lottery protected) for Hall + 30% retention (cap)

Flames add a ‘missing piece’ up front and see if they can’t reach their potential.

Offer contingent on the Flames firing Ward and hiring an actual coach.

HA! I wish the Flames would make a trade like this for Hall, and then sign him to a long and pricey contract.

 

[TFHockey]

HA! I wish the Flames would make a trade like this for Hall, and then sign him to a long and pricey contract.

Don't you think the Oilers could benefit from one year of Hall at 50%?

 

[longtimeoilfan]

Don't you think the Oilers could benefit from one year of Hall at 50%?

No ... I wish Hall all the best, but his time as an Oiler is over. I would be happy to watch Calgary's team become even more dysfunctional with the addition of the ego that is Hall.

 

[TFHockey]

No ... I wish Hall all the best, but his time as an Oiler is over. I would be happy to watch Calgary's team become even more dysfunctional with the addition of the ego that is Hall.

I could see us having him for a playoff push. Might be exciting to see.

Long term? I agree with you 100%.

 

[longtimeoilfan]

I could see us having him for a playoff push. Might be exciting to see.

Long term? I agree with you 100%.

I don't see where he would play ... he and McDavid were not good together. They both need to be the guy with the puck. Drai's line ... maybe? Beyond that, Hall - even at 50% - would be an expensive 3rd liner.

I want to see player movement on the Oil (trades), but I would rather see actual hockey trades at this point involving players signed beyond this season. I don't want to see the Oilers give up the assets to sign Hall just for a push. And as I suggested, Hall has no place on the Oilers going forward.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I don't see where he would play ... he and McDavid were not good together. They both need to be the guy with the puck. Drai's line ... maybe? Beyond that, Hall - even at 50% - would be an expensive 3rd liner.

I want to see player movement on the Oil (trades), but I would rather see actual hockey trades at this point involving players signed beyond this season. I don't want to see the Oilers give up the assets to sign Hall just for a push. And as I suggested, Hall has no place on the Oilers going forward.

If we get Hall back, I'd prefer him flanking the 3rd line centered by Nuge.
Chances are, when he signed with Buffalo, he likely told them where he wanted to be traded (which included either back to Edmonton or a cup contender).

Hall is a terrible long-term gamble for any team, and I certainly don't want us on the receiving end of any contract over $5m AAV or 4 years.


With his style of play and injury history, his career trajectory is likely on a downward spiral.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I was told by Sabres fans not too long ago that Hall was going to sign long term, that there was no chance Buffalo would trade him

Hmmm

We were told we were going to compete for a playoff spot...

 

[67 others]

I think you hit the nail on the head about Taylor Hall as a player. When he played for the Oilers he was on some pretty bad teams and was often referred to as the straw that stirs the drink when on the ice. He was a difference maker.

His issues with being coached? That is also very fair. remember the water bottle incident on the bench?



Whether parroting HF rhetoric or parroting what you've read online you're not in a position to state you know what is going on with this player. You have to actually watch him play the game. Boxed scores only tell you part of the story.

I did watch him play. Terrific skillet.

But I also watched what former teammates said about him.

Hall actually came out and admitted Ferrence was referring to him with this quote.

“We had other guys that had been on playoff teams, and they had the same frustrations. They’d come and practice hard and there’s a group of guys there that had ‘Too cool to try hard.’ They had derogatory terms for trying too hard in practice. That’s the culture, right... So your voice only goes so far with people that only respect how good your toe drag is and whether or not you’re out partying."

Hall had a brief resurgence after his trade to the devils. He had something to prove.

But further quotes from his newer teammates on the devils and Arizona are telling. And the fact that those teams GMs didn't fight to keep him.

If he was worth it, GMs would be backing up the brings truck to keep him instead of watching him bounce from team to team.


Taylor Hall on how much he listens to New Jersey coach John Hynes as opposed to how much he listened to his Oilers coaches: “He’s probably given me the most accountability that any coach I had in Edmonton. I really think that’s been good for me personally. Just in Edmonton, I really didn’t want to talk to coaches. I didn’t really want to have dialogue with coaches. I just wanted to play. And a lot of guys are like that.”

 

[banks]

At this point, I honestly think there is an issue with Hall. Other than his peak with the Hart trophy, everything else has been underwhelming with him. Failure doesn't just follow him, it rides on his back.

I'd avoid him if I were a GM.

 

[67 others]

At this point, I honestly think there is an issue with Hall. Other than his peak with the Hart trophy, everything else has been underwhelming with him. Failure doesn't just follow him, it rides on his back.

I'd avoid him if I were a GM.

Arizona was so excited when they got him. Calling it a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a player of his caliber.

Then they decided to mutually part ways and let him walk to free agency despite having the cap room to resign him if they wanted

 

[Perfect_Drug]

We were told we were going to compete for a playoff spot...

You know. During the lockout shortened season Taylor Hall wasn't even able to get the AHL Oklahoma City Barons into a playoff spot.

The OKC vastly improved after he was brought back up to Edmonton.

I didn't want to believe it at the time, but there's a LOT more to winning than just putting up points. And whatever that is, Taylor Hall does NOT have it.

Isn't this strange?
Taylor Hall has been a blessing and a curse for the Arizona Coyotes

This follows him EVERYWHERE. He puts up great stats, yet the team trends downwards.

He puts up great stats, advanced stats, and pushes positive results everywhere.. Corsi, Fenwick, HDSCF, yada yada... but adding Hall seems to never add to wins.


Hall was Traded by the Devils Dec 15/16th
Then Jersey goes on a heater, going something like 19-12-6?

New Jersey Devils Schedule

I'm not saying Trading Hall lead them to a winning record. But having Hall certainly didn't amount to many wins.

Then Arizona GETS Hall, and begins trending down the standings.
Not saying he was directly responsible for the losses, but he certainly didn't make them a better team.


There's a lot of stink on Hall. And having him on any team has never to equated to more wins.

 

[banks]

Arizona was so excited when they got him. Calling it a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a player of his caliber.

Then they decided to mutually part ways and let him walk to free agency despite having the cap room to resign him if they wanted

Yep! Despite paying a boatload for him, and the fact that he filled their biggest team need (scoring talent), they dropped him like a hot potato.

 

[TFHockey]

I don't see where he would play ... he and McDavid were not good together. They both need to be the guy with the puck. Drai's line ... maybe? Beyond that, Hall - even at 50% - would be an expensive 3rd liner.

I want to see player movement on the Oil (trades), but I would rather see actual hockey trades at this point involving players signed beyond this season. I don't want to see the Oilers give up the assets to sign Hall just for a push. And as I suggested, Hall has no place on the Oilers going forward.

If we get Hall back, I'd prefer him flanking the 3rd line centered by Nuge.
Chances are, when he signed with Buffalo, he likely told them where he wanted to be traded (which included either back to Edmonton or a cup contender).

Hall is a terrible long-term gamble for any team, and I certainly don't want us on the receiving end of any contract over $5m AAV or 4 years.


With his style of play and injury history, his career trajectory is likely on a downward spiral.

Just a thought exercise guys:

Drai - McDavid - Puljujarvi
Hall - RNH - Yamamoto
Kahun - Khaira - Chiasson
Ennis - Haas - Archbald

 

[is the answer jesus]

This "losing follows him narrative" is pretty lazy. He's been a good player on several really poor teams. That a mess of an organization like the Coyotes didn't keep him is no indictment of him as a player.