Speculation: Taylor Hall trade/contract talk (part III)

[NJDevs26]

Didn't want this to get buried toward the end of the last thread, but I think it's a fair overall outlook from an Avs fan, given all the speculation on a trade with them.

Speculation: - Taylor Hall contract talk (part II)

And yes I had to change the title from just contract to now contract and trade talk since that's where we're headed. Pretty soon it might be just trade talk

Click to read more...

 

[mtnet]

Ray check your texts and voice msgs

 

[217 Forever]

Didn't want this to get buried toward the end of the last thread, but I think it's a fair overall outlook from an Avs fan, given all the speculation on a trade with them.

Speculation: - Taylor Hall contract talk (part II)

And yes I had to change the title from just contract to now contract and trade talk since that's where we're headed. Pretty soon it might be just trade talk

I think it's possible that the MVP version of Hall if he was signed could fetch a prospect like Byram, just not the version of Hall that exists right now.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Just curious @Ararana does the fact that Byram's point totals and especially goal totals are way down so far from last year make the average Avs fan less bullish on him, or more precisely why doesn't it since everyone seems to say he's untouchable?

Also, would you agree with me that the future of the Avalanche organization is not riding on Byram being their superstar defenseman along with Makar?

It seems to me under those circumstances that Sakic might pull the trigger on Hall for Byram if he were convinced it presented them with a legitimate shot at the Cup.

 

[mtnet]

I still see Byram as outside the parameters of a discussion between COL and NJD, though of course totally understand the desire to envision such a deal

 

[EdAVSfan]

Just curious @Ararana does the fact that Byram's point totals and especially goal totals are way down so far from last year make the average Avs fan less bullish on him, or more precisely why doesn't it since everyone seems to say he's untouchable?

Also, would you agree with me that the future of the Avalanche organization is not riding on Byram being their superstar defenseman along with Makar?

It seems to me under those circumstances that Sakic might pull the trigger on Hall for Byram if he were convinced it presented them with a legitimate shot at the Cup.

There was a very general acceptance that Byram’s goal totals were not going to be replicated prior to the season starting.

As of now, with Makar being the type of player he is, the Avs don’t need Byram to be a #1 guy. If he can comfortably slot in as a 2 or 3, then that’s n ideal scenario for the next decade of our defense along with Girard, and Timmins, if he isn’t trade away, or expansion eligible.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

There was a very general acceptance that Byram’s goal totals were not going to be replicated prior to the season starting.

As of now, with Makar being the type of player he is, the Avs don’t need Byram to be a #1 guy. If he can comfortably slot in as a 2 or 3, then that’s n ideal scenario for the next decade of our defense along with Girard, and Timmins, if he isn’t trade away, or expansion eligible.

That's fine, but what I'm getting at is if the Avs don't need Byram to be their next superstar, it seems that he's not untouchable. It seems as if you're conceding it yourself. By contrast, when the Devils drafted Larsson he was untouchable for a little bit because people believed he would be a superstar and the Devils thought they needed him to be that.

 

[My3Sons]

There was a very general acceptance that Byram’s goal totals were not going to be replicated prior to the season starting.

As of now, with Makar being the type of player he is, the Avs don’t need Byram to be a #1 guy. If he can comfortably slot in as a 2 or 3, then that’s n ideal scenario for the next decade of our defense along with Girard, and Timmins, if he isn’t trade away, or expansion eligible.

Sakic might want to offer Zadorov and Burakovsky for Hall. They both need contracts and combined probably will come close to what Hall will command. Maybe NJ adds Mueller and COL adds a draft pick? I’m not sure if either side would view that as helpful but Hall almost certainly would relegate Burakovsky to bottom six and it doesn’t sound like Zadorov is in the long term plans?

 

[Blackjack]

That's fine, but what I'm getting at is if the Avs don't need Byram to be their next superstar, it seems that he's not untouchable. It seems as if you're conceding it yourself. By contrast, when the Devils drafted Larsson he was untouchable for a little bit because people believed he would be a superstar and the Devils thought they needed him to be that.

I mean, I really don't understand what you're getting at here. Did the Devils not need Niedermayer because they had Stevens? Yes, of course they need both. They want to f***ing win a cup.

 

[Ararana]

Just curious @Ararana does the fact that Byram's point totals and especially goal totals are way down so far from last year make the average Avs fan less bullish on him, or more precisely why doesn't it since everyone seems to say he's untouchable?

Also, would you agree with me that the future of the Avalanche organization is not riding on Byram being their superstar defenseman along with Makar?

It seems to me under those circumstances that Sakic might pull the trigger on Hall for Byram if he were convinced it presented them with a legitimate shot at the Cup.

Let me put it this way, the Avs (and us Colorado fans) just watched Makar have a disappointing D+1 year then turn into what he is now. So its a little hard for me to get too worked up over the first 23 games of Byram's post draft career. And IMO Byram's development is further than Makar's was when he was drafted.

Bryam has already shown he can dominate the WHL and its disappointing he had to return because of the rules. He should be in the AHL with Timmins working on his defensive game.

Secondly, I believe it's a fair point that this year's Giants team isn't firing on the offensive cylinders as last years team was. Sure Byram is responsible for a portion of that but he's not going to be able to do everything himself. For me, the WJCs and the mem. cup are the measuring sticks for Byram this season.

As far as his impact on the Avs going forward, Girard in my mind is a damn good #3 defenseman. Makar is still a bit of a mystery box, he could be a #1 he could just be a really good offensive top pairing guy. But we still have that hole for a top pairing left handed guy and Byram projects to fill that perfectly.

Byram - Makar
Girard - XXX

I believe a Byram - Makar pairing could be just as important to the Avs as the MacKinnon - Rantanen duo up front.

I'm not going to sit here and say Sakic would never trade Byram. I'm not Sakic, I don't get to make the decisions. But it would certainly be an abnormality in the recent NHL history for that to happen. The last top 5 defenseman to get traded within a few years of their draft was Seth Jones in his D+2 I believe, who was traded for a 23 year old #1 center under team control. And the crazy thing is I'd be willing to bet Poile would take that trade back if he could.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Sakic might want to offer Zadorov and Burakovsky for Hall. They both need contracts and combined probably will come close to what Hall will command. Maybe NJ adds Mueller and COL adds a draft pick? I’m not sure if either side would view that as helpful but Hall almost certainly would relegate Burakovsky to bottom six and it doesn’t sound like Zadorov is in the long term plans?

Shero gets fired immediately if he accepts anything close to that. That's Chiarelli level awful.

 

[Blackjack]

Bryam has already shown he can dominate the WHL and its disappointing he had to return because of the rules. He should be in the AHL with Timmins working on his defensive game.

Tell us about it.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Sakic might want to offer Zadorov and Burakovsky for Hall. They both need contracts and combined probably will come close to what Hall will command. Maybe NJ adds Mueller and COL adds a draft pick? I’m not sure if either side would view that as helpful but Hall almost certainly would relegate Burakovsky to bottom six and it doesn’t sound like Zadorov is in the long term plans?

I’d have to assume at least one forward would be sent back in a Hall trade.

Whether that’s Jost, Burakovsky, maybe Compher., it’s hard to say. But acquiring Hall would require us to move out a top 9 forward, no doubt.

Having to move out two current players from the roster (by adding Zadorov) I just don’t see. Salic would then have to go out and get another dman replacement (ideally better than Zadorov, or at least his equal) for it to make sense.

Knowing how Joe has been, making several moves like this isn’t in his wheelhouse.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Let me put it this way, the Avs (and us Colorado fans) just watched Makar have a disappointing D+1 year then turn into what he is now. So its a little hard for me to get too worked up over the first 23 games of Byram's post draft career. And IMO Byram's development is further than Makar's was when he was drafted.

Bryam has already shown he can dominate the WHL and its disappointing he had to return because of the rules. He should be in the AHL with Timmins working on his defensive game.

Secondly, I believe it's a fair point that this year's Giants team isn't firing on the offensive cylinders as last years team was. Sure Byram is responsible for a portion of that but he's not going to be able to do everything himself. For me, the WJCs and the mem. cup are the measuring sticks for Byram this season.

As far as his impact on the Avs going forward, Girard in my mind is a damn good #3 defenseman. Makar is still a bit of a mystery box, he could be a #1 he could just be a really good offensive top pairing guy. But we still have that hole for a top pairing left handed guy and Byram projects to fill that perfectly.

Byram - Makar
Girard - XXX

I believe a Byram - Makar pairing could be just as important to the Avs as the MacKinnon - Rantanen duo up front.

I'm not going to sit here and say Sakic would never trade Byram. I'm not Sakic, I don't get to make the decisions. But it would certainly be an abnormality in the recent NHL history for that to happen. The last top 5 defenseman to get traded within a few years of their draft was Seth Jones in his D+2 I believe, who was traded for a 23 year old #1 center under team control. And the crazy thing is I'd be willing to bet Poile would take that trade back if he could.

Fair, but I think it's also fair to say that Jones was already in the NHL and was the much more accomplished prospect going into the draft (he could have beaten out MacKinnon for number 1 overall).

Anyway, not much point going back and forth on this. We'll see what happens.

 

[Blackjack]

Shero gets fired immediately if he accepts anything close to that. That's Chiarelli level awful.

I thought so too but then I went and checked and Burakovsky has 21 points already?? Also 6'3 which would be a big deal for this team of smurfs.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I mean, I really don't understand what you're getting at here. Did the Devils not need Niedermayer because they had Stevens? Yes, of course they need both. They want to ****ing win a cup.

Please stop with the analogies because you're not good at them.

First, in Niedermayer's D+1 year, the Devils were not making a run at the Cup and did not have a Hart trophy caliber center, and all the other things that Colorado has now.

Second, your premise that Byram is a surefire Hall of Famer is obviously wrong.

 

[Blackjack]

Please stop with the analogies because you're not good at them.

First, in Niedermayer's D+1 year, the Devils were not making a run at the Cup and did not have a Hart trophy caliber center, and all the other things that Colorado has now.

Second, your premise that Byram is a surefire Hall of Famer is obviously wrong.

I mean, that was clearly not my point, but okay.

 

[Ararana]

Fair, but I think it's also fair to say that Jones was already in the NHL and was the much more accomplished prospect going into the draft (he could have beaten out MacKinnon for number 1 overall).

Anyway, not much point going back and forth on this. We'll see what happens.

Absolutely, I'm not trying to say Byram has the value Jones had back then, he doesn't. I think Seth Jones is amazing and would be Byram's ceiling right now.

Good luck to you guys. I remember the ROR and Duchene trade sagas, it was painful. Shero seems like a good trader I hope you guys get a good return to help build around your first overall centers.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I thought so too but then I went and checked and Burakovsky has 21 points already?? Also 6'3 which would be a big deal for this team of smurfs.

You have to ignore that he's been disappointing most of his career up to this season. And Zadorov is just trash.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Just curious @Ararana does the fact that Byram's point totals and especially goal totals are way down so far from last year make the average Avs fan less bullish on him, or more precisely why doesn't it since everyone seems to say he's untouchable?

Also, would you agree with me that the future of the Avalanche organization is not riding on Byram being their superstar defenseman along with Makar?

It seems to me under those circumstances that Sakic might pull the trigger on Hall for Byram if he were convinced it presented them with a legitimate shot at the Cup.

Ty Smith point totals are down too

does that mean he is less valuable than he was a year ago? Or could it mean that the player doesn't have much left to give in that league?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Ty Smith point totals are down too

does that mean he is less valuable than he was a year ago? Or could it mean that the player doesn't have much left to give in that league?

Stop. Ty Smith's point totals (ppg) increased from his D to his D+1 year. Also, Byram's goal totals, which is what made him so appealing last year, are way way down.

 

[MartyOwns]

nothing new here, just more smoke. full disclosure, i have not vetted friedman

 

[Devils731]

nothing new here, just more smoke. full disclosure, i have not vetted friedman

I can’t speak to the twitter account transcribing the radio but Friedman is a legitimate hockey guy with connections who doesn’t make stuff up.

 

[Tretyak 20]

I can’t speak to the twitter account transcribing the radio but Friedman is a legitimate hockey guy with connections who doesn’t make stuff up.

Yup. If Friedman actually said it, it's interesting.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I think it's possible that the MVP version of Hall if he was signed could fetch a prospect like Byram, just not the version of Hall that exists right now.

uh...a signed and mvp version of hall would 100% fetch Byram lol....