Tavares

[obey86]

Does Detroit have an extra 10 million plus laying around after we sign our RFAs. There is your answer on Tavares playing in Detroit.

Actually, yeah they probably do with a simple trade or two.. The cap is expected to potentially be 82M. The Wings have 57M under contract next season. Give 6M to Larkin, 5M to Mantha, and 4M to AA and you're at about 10M in space left. A move such as trading Nyqvist, Daley, or AA gives you plenty of breathing room cap wise.

 

[GrafSk8r12]

I don’t see it, especially if he wants to contend for a Cup as soon as possible.
But let’s say he did. What number would he wear?

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

No. Tavares will not sign in Detroit.

Not close to competing.

No cap space or prospect pool.

He would better off staying in New York, than signing with the Wings.

 

[Go Wings]

Actually, yeah they probably do with a simple trade or two.. The cap is expected to potentially be 82M. The Wings have 57M under contract next season. Give 6M to Larkin, 5M to Mantha, and 4M to AA and you're at about 10M in space left. A move such as trading Nyqvist, Daley, or AA gives you plenty of breathing room cap wise.

I said 10 million plus not 10 million. Yah teams will be lining up to take Daley lol.
Frk, Bertuzzi and a backup goalie plus the defense is complete trash.

I dont see us having money for Tavares nor him coming to Detroit.

 

[KJoe88]

****, with the way the lottery has gone, maybe we are better off just barely missing the playoffs. ****ing Dallas, Carolina, Philadelphia, etc.

And with the way I’m still salty about Carolina jumping as high as they did, you may be right.

Never mind. Sign the man and let’s finish two spots from the playoffs and land a high pick!

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

While in the realm of "Incredibly Unlikely" scenarios, I really do not know how I'd feel about the Wings signing Tavares.

He is an excellent player, no doubt, but he is already 27 and will be looking for 10-11 million MINIMUM this off season, most likely for 8 years. I can't see the Wings being good enough to be a legit playoff threat for another two years, even in the best case scenario.
It would just seem counter productive, as with JT we probably will finish a few spots higher instead of trying for the Jack Hughes lottery. I think you add a player like him later on in a rebuild.

All moot though. He's leaving the Islanders because they haven't been able to do anything in the playoffs. Doubt he'll want to wait a few more years in mediocrity for Detroit.

 

[Mijatovic]

We aren't getting an Elite 1C from the draft. You'd be stupid to not have a crack.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I said this last time this topic came up, but Tavares is my favorite player in the league not named Henrik Zetterberg; if I'm him, I stay away from the Red Wings.

 

[Shaman464]

Actually, yeah they probably do with a simple trade or two.. The cap is expected to potentially be 82M. The Wings have 57M under contract next season. Give 6M to Larkin, 5M to Mantha, and 4M to AA and you're at about 10M in space left. A move such as trading Nyqvist, Daley, or AA gives you plenty of breathing room cap wise.

AA doesn't deserve 4 million. He deserves 2-2.5.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Dont think he would come to detroit.


But all 31 GMs should be doing their due diligence and offer some sort of contract.



Also the plus side is, 7 years is the max we can offer. So if he is 27 now the contract will be over when he is 34. So not like he is signed until he is 40.

I'd offer 7 years at 10m. He will get higher elsewhere, so I wouldnt expect him to sign here.

 

[Dotter]

Offering him a contract would be like trying to buy a fishing boat while living in the middle of the desert. It simply makes no sense. Easy pass. Rebuild should be priority number 1 right now.

 

[RedWingzz]

Tavares does not want to pay for the Wings lol. Tavares wants to win a Cup, we are a good 2-3 years away from the playoffs, and a good 6+ years away from potentially challenging for a Cup.

We don't have cap space to sign anyone of value for the time being. Resigning the RFAs will just about take us to the cap. The following offseason is when we could potentially look at the UFA market when Nyquist/Howard/Kronwall/Zetterberg(ltir?) come off the books.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Offering him a contract would be like trying to buy a fishing boat while living in the middle of the desert. It simply makes no sense. Easy pass. Rebuild should be priority number 1 right now.

That's not at all true.

A fishing boat in the middle of the desert does nothing to help you and everything to hurt you. No matter if you think Tavares would make a difference, signing him would be a huge addition.
People go too far with this rebuild nonsense. I'm not saying that you don't get futures and plan for the future... but when you are actively turning down the pursuit of proven elite talent for the at best 16% chance to get possible elite talent, it just rings false to me.

Name of the game is get elite talent where you can. In draft, in FA, in trades.

I mean, the dynasty Wings had room on their team for Andreas Lilja, Brett Lebda, Stacy Roest, Greg Johnson, Brent Gilchrist, etc.

You don't sell out everything you have to land Tavares, nor is the rebuild complete if you land him. But turning your nose up at a proven NHL star for the possibility that you not only win the lottery to get Hughes, but also that Hughes is everything you think he is, is lunacy. The really funny thing is... if Hughes is what you think he is... guess what, you've got an 11M+ contract on your books by 2022. The sole benefit of studly lottery picks is that they are cost controlled compared to established stars... but Edmonton changed all that when they ran out their 12.5M contract to McDavid ASAP.

I would not be upset if the Wings didn't land Tavares. However, I would be upset if they didn't give the notion honest consideration.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Actually, yeah they probably do with a simple trade or two.. The cap is expected to potentially be 82M. The Wings have 57M under contract next season. Give 6M to Larkin, 5M to Mantha, and 4M to AA and you're at about 10M in space left. A move such as trading Nyqvist, Daley, or AA gives you plenty of breathing room cap wise.

Larkin gets 6. That makes sense.
Mantha is going bridge contract. He's made that pretty clear. He's getting 3.5-4M maybe for two years. He looks to be gambling on himself.
AA gets between 2-2.5M for 2 or 3 years and he likes it... or he's gone. No way in hell does he deserve 4M. I'd let him walk before I signed him for 4M ****ing dollars.

A Nyquist deal is pretty easy.
A Daley deal comes with more question marks, but doable I think.
A Jimmy Howard deal almost seems likely.

If the Wings wanted money for Tavares, there are a litany of very realistic moves that they can make that easily give them that cash. They had the money for Stamkos in a MUCH MUCH tighter window.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Give the RFAs their market value, trade a single player (Nyquist) and you have sufficient cap space. It wouldn't be difficult in the slightest.

That being said, as much as I would love to have a player like Tavares, it would be like putting lipstick on a pig at this stage. Also, there are teams that are much better fits for a player like Tavares. Even a team like Carolina makes more sense, and I would normally never list that franchise as a hotter destination than Detroit. They need a high end center and they would benefit from being able to bump a few players down a bit. With that D core, adding Svechnikov or Zadina, slotting in Tavares with the likes of Necas, Aho, Skinner, Teravainen, Lindholm...that's cooking with fire. Maybe they move someone like Faulk or Slavin for an established goalie, and that team would be a playoff team immediately, and a contender within a few years.

Tavares is a piece that can transform your team, but at this point he's more of a luxury that you would add after getting the rebuilt foundation set, not necessarily a piece of the foundation.

 

[Hen Kolland]

We don't have cap space to sign anyone of value for the time being. Resigning the RFAs will just about take us to the cap.

This is so ridiculously inaccurate. How much money are you trying to hand out to these RFAs, man? With the projected increase in the cap, we have $25M in cap space as it stands right now.

 

[njx9]

It's fine if the team wants to make a move for a guy who obviously won't sign here - they should certainly be asking.

But I hope they don't preemptively shift a bunch of salary around and make moves they wouldn't have otherwise, first.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Give the RFAs their market value, trade a single player (Nyquist) and you have sufficient cap space. It wouldn't be difficult in the slightest.

That being said, as much as I would love to have a player like Tavares, it would be like putting lipstick on a pig at this stage. Also, there are teams that are much better fits for a player like Tavares. Even a team like Carolina makes more sense, and I would normally never list that franchise as a hotter destination than Detroit. They need a high end center and they would benefit from being able to bump a few players down a bit. With that D core, adding Svechnikov or Zadina, slotting in Tavares with the likes of Necas, Aho, Skinner, Teravainen, Lindholm...that's cooking with fire. Maybe they move someone like Faulk or Slavin for an established goalie, and that team would be a playoff team immediately, and a contender within a few years.

Tavares is a piece that can transform your team, but at this point he's more of a luxury that you would add after getting the rebuilt foundation set, not necessarily a piece of the foundation.

Bullcrap. If you could convince him to sign in Detroit, he becomes the centerpiece of your foundation. In no way would he be a luxury. The Wings NEED elite talent from wherever. Tavares would not only become the best player on our roster by a long shot, he would be one at probably our biggest area of need. He would be a transformative player if he could be convinced Detroit is the place.

I know you're not trying to belittle the move, but it's not re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic or lipstick on a pig or any of the thousands of cliches to make it sound bad or downplay the impact it would have. No, he would not singlehandedly carry us to a Cup. But signing him would actually allow Henrik Zetterberg to become the best 3C in the league. Instead of hoping and praying that Larkin can make it as a 1C, he gets to slot in as a Ryan Kesler-like 2C and dominate.

If you think he won't sign here because other teams are better fits? I understand that and agree. But to belittle the chase and say "we don't want him" or that it would be a bad move to add a legitimate star at market value in lieu of hoping that we hit a 16% chance that we even get the #1OA in the Hughes draft is just so beyond the pale for me. And just by chance if we did land Hughes and he was a super badass, he'd be getting the same 11M+ offered to Tavares by 2021 or 2022. You're basically punting the big contract down the line by a couple years.

 

[RedWingzz]

This is so ridiculously inaccurate. How much money are you trying to hand out to these RFAs, man? With the projected increase in the cap, we have $25M in cap space as it stands right now.

-Larkin will easily get 6.5-7 per
-Mantha 5 per
-AA 3 per
-Bert 1.5 per
-Frk 1
-Green (I know hes a UFA, but he's coming back) 6 per
-add in 2 for a competent backup goalie

There's your 25 million. How exactly can we fit Tavares in? It's not realistic at all. Sure on NHL18 it may work, not in the real world where we have the Helm and Abby and Nielsen contracts.

 

[Redder Winger]

Give the RFAs their market value, trade a single player (Nyquist) and you have sufficient cap space. It wouldn't be difficult in the slightest.

That being said, as much as I would love to have a player like Tavares, it would be like putting lipstick on a pig at this stage. Also, there are teams that are much better fits for a player like Tavares. Even a team like Carolina makes more sense, and I would normally never list that franchise as a hotter destination than Detroit. They need a high end center and they would benefit from being able to bump a few players down a bit. With that D core, adding Svechnikov or Zadina, slotting in Tavares with the likes of Necas, Aho, Skinner, Teravainen, Lindholm...that's cooking with fire. Maybe they move someone like Faulk or Slavin for an established goalie, and that team would be a playoff team immediately, and a contender within a few years.

Tavares is a piece that can transform your team, but at this point he's more of a luxury that you would add after getting the rebuilt foundation set, not necessarily a piece of the foundation.

Tavares could be a supercharger to your rebuild.

1) Draft a defenseman who can play as early as next year (Bouchard, perhaps).
2) Sign Tavares. Spend one more year outside the playoffs.
3) Draft another top 10 pick.
4) Sign OEL/Doughty/Karlsson next year.

Here's what you're looking at, assuming Z LTIRes before 19-20.

Abdelkader-Tavares-Mantha
AA-Larkin-Bertuzzi
Rasmussen-Nielsen-Svechnikov
Helm-Turgeon-Glendening
Frk

Dekeyser Doughty
Daley Bouchard
Cholowski Hronek
Ericsson

(No goalies)

If you land a decent goalie and get a decent coach, this team could make some noice, especially if the kids grow up.


Total cap hit $70M. The cap hit will probably be around $82M
So you've got $13M to get two goalies
You could also throw a couple million extra million at Doughty or Tavares.


$10.5Mx7 for Tavares
$10.5x7 for Doughty
$6Mx8 for Larkin
$4.2x3 for Mantha
$2.4x3 for AA
$1Mx2 for Bertuzzi
$1mx2 for Frk
$800,000x2 for Turgeon
$800,000x2 for Hicketts

 

[Frk It]

I really don't see Nyquist getting traded in the off-season. Maybe AA gets traded in the off-season, but Nyquist will get moved next year at the TDL if he does get moved.

I would not count on Nyquist or Daley getting traded in the off-season. Teams can add comparable players in free agency for nothing but $$. The demand will be much higher at the TDL.

 

[Redder Winger]

-Larkin will easily get 6.5-7 per
-Mantha 5 per
-AA 3 per
-Bert 1.5 per
-Frk 1
-Green (I know hes a UFA, but he's coming back) 6 per
-add in 2 for a competent backup goalie

There's your 25 million. How exactly can we fit Tavares in? It's not realistic at all. Sure on NHL18 it may work, not in the real world where we have the Helm and Abby and Nielsen contracts.

Mantha won't get that much.
Larkin might not get that much.
AA wont' get that much.
There's 3M saved.
Don't sign Green.

There's $9M saved.

Cap is supposed to be $80M.

Sign Tavares, 11M
Sign Larkin $6M
Sign Mantha $4M
Sign AA $2M
Sign Bert and Frk for $1M or less.\
Franzen on LTIR

Recall Hronek to replace Green.
Sign veteran NHL back for $1.2M

You've got Tavares under the cap by $200,000.

That's even before you try and trade Daley or Ericsson or Helm.

The Wings can fit Tavares.
The question is, why would Tavares want to fit here?

 

[Redder Winger]

I really don't see Nyquist getting traded in the off-season. Maybe AA gets traded in the off-season, but Nyquist will get moved next year at the TDL if he does get moved.

I would not count on Nyquist or Daley getting traded in the off-season. Teams can add comparable players in free agency for nothing but $$. The demand will be much higher at the TDL.

Unless they get injured and you get nothing.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Bullcrap. If you could convince him to sign in Detroit, he becomes the centerpiece of your foundation. In no way would he be a luxury. The Wings NEED elite talent from wherever. Tavares would not only become the best player on our roster by a long shot, he would be one at probably our biggest area of need. He would be a transformative player if he could be convinced Detroit is the place.

I know you're not trying to belittle the move, but it's not re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic or lipstick on a pig or any of the thousands of cliches to make it sound bad or downplay the impact it would have. No, he would not singlehandedly carry us to a Cup. But signing him would actually allow Henrik Zetterberg to become the best 3C in the league. Instead of hoping and praying that Larkin can make it as a 1C, he gets to slot in as a Ryan Kesler-like 2C and dominate.

If you think he won't sign here because other teams are better fits? I understand that and agree. But to belittle the chase and say "we don't want him" or that it would be a bad move to add a legitimate star at market value in lieu of hoping that we hit a 16% chance that we even get the #1OA in the Hughes draft is just so beyond the pale for me. And just by chance if we did land Hughes and he was a super badass, he'd be getting the same 11M+ offered to Tavares by 2021 or 2022. You're basically punting the big contract down the line by a couple years.

Miscommunication, I would love to have Tavares and if we want to make a play for him, I'm on board because it does accelerate the rebuild. I don't put stock into tanking for first pick at all. I won't tell anyone they are wrong for going after him.

That being said, I don't think this is the best time to jump in on a big name UFA in his prime if I were running the front office. It's not that I'm against getting elite talent, but rather the timing that I would want to make the commitment. If I'm making a splash with a high priced UFA in the middle of his prime, I am doing it with the expectation that I am a contender with the final one or two pieces to cap my rebuild. We don't have the goalie of the future, we don't have top pairing defensemen of the future, we are lacking probably two top 6 wings of the future, and missing a top 6 center of the future. If we create the space for a high priced UFA in his prime, we are forcing ourselves right to the cap ceiling again with no ability to fill in the rest of the pieces long term. This might be the only situation you will find that I lean on the cautious side, because I'm usually pretty firmly in line with aggressive approaches. But I can always change my mind depending what additional moves you are telling me we are making. Are you willing to go after NHL ready prospects? Did we draft NHL ready guys? Are we moving out dead weight from a cap & roster perspective like Daley, Helm, etc?

 

[Flowah]

I'm on board because it does accelerate the rebuild.

I think it stalls the rebuild. We go from a definite lottery team to a maybe bubble team. He's 27. He's got maybe a couple years of peak left even though most forwards peak sooner. We're not ready to compete in those 2 years. We need big upgrades on defense and we're not even positive that guys like Hronek are gonna be on the team next season. Very optimistically we're ready in 3 years. His prime is well done by the time we're ready to compete. Z's definitely gone by then too. Howard's great but he's 34 already and unreliable healthwise and as far as I know we don't even have a projected farm goalie that can take his spot.

We've got major, major, holes in this team that signing Tavares does nothing to address. In fact he makes it harder by guaranteeing we draft lower.