Tavares vs. Pettersson

Tavares or Pettersson (to try & win NOW)


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Isaac Nootin

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
7,540
11,821
Would GMs take Matthews over Tavares? McDavid?
Pettersson is a highly dynamic player and should be more desirable by all GMs than JT. If you want to just focus on these playoffs this year ignoring salary etc then sure a case can be made for JT over McDavid as well.

That was the question/poll in the OP.

Who do you take to help you win right now, in these playoffs. Not who do you take going forward, as that answer is very clearly EP.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
21,006
He doesn't. All I see is you using stats that are heavily affected by goaltending, defensemen, and competition, and say very little about Tavares' defensive ability or impact.
Because the stats do not suit your argument. BTW what do poor 5v5 GA60 stats indicate? Like worst on the team indicate to you. A player is good defensively? Like 3 years in a row? Must be a coincidence to have bad goaltending every time Tavares steps on the ice.... I see you also missed the videos that show how poorly JT approaches the defensive game. He was never any great shakes defensively in his career, but this year his decline is even more evident.

Now EP on the other hand is one of the best Canucks in GA60. Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
 
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nowhereman

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
9,231
7,568
Los Angeles
I don't think a single GM in the league would choose Pettersson over Tavares if they were entering the Stanley Cup finals tomorrow. Veteran leadership and league experience would go a long way.
This isn't Crosby or Kane we're talking about. This is a guy who has never really accomplished much of anything in the playoffs at any stage of his career. I doubt "league experience" or veteran leadership factors in as much as just pure ability. Right now, it's close enough that it would probably be 50/50.
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
20,095
15,266
Because the stats do not suit your argument.
No, because you are using the stat incorrectly.
BTW what do poor 5v5 GA60 stats indicate?
The amount of goals that went in the net when Tavares happened to be on the ice in one game state. This is a number heavily affected by goaltending, defensemen, other linemates, and competition, among other factors, and is not an accurate representation of individual defensive ability or impact, especially for a forward, and especially in small samples.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
21,006
No, because you are using the stat incorrectly.

The amount of goals that went in the net when Tavares happened to be on the ice in one game state. This is a number heavily affected by goaltending, defensemen, other linemates, and competition, among other factors, and is not an accurate representation of individual defensive ability or impact, especially for a forward.
We have heard that excuse from you already. It's the goaltending, the GM, now defence and linemates fault now. Competition? Tavares was the 2nd highest paid player in the NHL when he signed in Toronto. Are you suggesting he should be playing against 3rd and 4th lines? How do you explain his poor GA60 metrics 5v5 for 3 years in a row? You don't think Tavares shares part of the blame for this?

EP has the 3rd best GA60 5v5 metrics on the Canucks. Do You think he is playing against 4th line competition?
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,519
46,242
No, because you are using the stat incorrectly.

The amount of goals that went in the net when Tavares happened to be on the ice in one game state. This is a number heavily affected by goaltending, defensemen, other linemates, and competition, among other factors, and is not an accurate representation of individual defensive ability or impact, especially for a forward, and especially in small samples.

So how does one judge a player's defensive ability, aside from "watch them"?

You're a big proponent of these advanced stats when judging a player's offensive contributions, so what "defensive stat" or collection of defensive stats would you suggested comes closest to painting an accurate picture of how good or bad a player is defensively?
 
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Dache

Registered User
Feb 12, 2018
5,247
2,773
No, because you are using the stat incorrectly.

The amount of goals that went in the net when Tavares happened to be on the ice in one game state. This is a number heavily affected by goaltending, defensemen, other linemates, and competition, among other factors, and is not an accurate representation of individual defensive ability or impact, especially for a forward, and especially in small samples.
This is affected by the same things that all 5vs5 or ES p60 stats are, yet when you use them they have the most context? Stop being so transparent.
 

TS Quint

I can see!
Sep 8, 2012
7,792
5,065
If Garth Snow was a better GM for the Islanders during Tavares career with them, maybe Tavares would have won more than just 1 playoff series with them.
Still one more round than Dubas. Garth>Dubas, we don’t even have to go into what they were on pace for.
 

CatchyTune

JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
Jan 8, 2016
5,757
4,611
Ontario
Still one more round than Dubas. Garth>Dubas, we don’t even have to go into what they were on pace for.
Over the past 4 years the Toronto Maple Leafs have the same amount of playoff appearances as Garth Snows' Islanders had from 2006-2018.

Also not like Dubas has been here 2 years and Snow had 12 years. "StIlL oNe MoRe RoUnD tHaN dUbAs" :dunce:
 
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LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Over the past 4 year the Toronto Maple Leafs have the same amount of playoff appearances as Garth Snows' Islanders had from 2006-2018.

Also not like Dubas has been here 2 years and Snow had 12 years. "StIlL oNe MoRe RoUnD tHaN dUbAs" :dunce:
The minor difference is Toronto has done that 3 years in a row from 2017-2019.

The Islanders playoff appearances with Snow as their GM as in 2013, 2015, and 2016.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
21,006
Bergeron had zero goals and one assist at 5v5, so you're wrong
Stats aside, wasn't there a discussion the Leafs needed more from Tavares against Boston prior to game 7? I am sure I am not the only one that recalled he was pretty much rendered ineffective this series.

Maple Leafs need more from John Tavares and Mitch Marner in Game 7

Tavares scored a career-high 43 goals while Marner emerged as one of the NHL’s most exciting and skilled forwards with 94 points. However, they’ve been a non-factor thus far in the series. Tavares has just one goal, and that one was without a goalie in the net.
Maple Leafs need more from John Tavares and Mitch Marner in Game 7

7 Maple Leafs in desperate need of a big Game 7 against the Bruins
Luke Fox, Sportsnet.

Tavares led all Maple Leafs in goals this season with 47, shattering his career best. The top-line centre has found the net once in six games, and it was empty.
7 Maple Leafs in desperate need of a big Game 7 against the Bruins - Sportsnet.ca
 

CatchyTune

JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
Jan 8, 2016
5,757
4,611
Ontario
The minor difference is Toronto has done that 3 years in a row from 2017-2019.

The Islanders playoff appearances with Snow as their GM as in 2013, 2015, and 2016.
2006-2007 was another one. I was counting this year for us.

Still a sizable gap from 2007-2012 with no appearances
 

CatchyTune

JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
Jan 8, 2016
5,757
4,611
Ontario
Your right and for some reason I thought Snow was named their GM after that season.
This is technically Dubas' 2nd year as GM.

Last season was his 1st season/playoff run as GM. For someone to say something as silly as "Snow>Dubas" because of playoff series wins, when someone had 12 playoff runs (or should I say 4 lmao) compared to 1 is ludicrous.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
This is technically Dubas' 2nd year as GM.

Last season was his 1st season/playoff run as GM. For someone to say something as silly as "Snow>Dubas" because of playoff series wins, when someone had 12 playoff runs (or should I say 4 lmao) compared to 1 is ludicrous.
I completely agree, because that's just another excuse to bash Dubas which they seem to do ever since Shanahan named him the GM.

It's almost like when they didn't give him any credit for signing Tavares, because they thought he was coming to Toronto no matter what and it didn't matter who was the Leafs GM.
 

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