Tavares/Marner/Hyman - Series Role

[Raym11]

It it too much to ask for a 47 goal scorer to be more than a shutdown center, for 1 game?

 

[Notsince67]

Been reading this thread with some amusement. People need to calm down a bit. The line matching really is about how the defense is deployed. The Bruins figured out that Muzzin and Zaits are not transitioning the puck so are making Tavares and Marner go 200 ft every time. A change of defensive assignments or pairing changes the face of scoring.

 

[RLF]

You should waste your time because you keep referencing their regular season numbers like that should translate to a playoff series battle. Two completely different scenarios... hence the fact Tavares is now starting in the defensive zone 66% of the time. How do you expect him to produce 5on5 when he is starting in his zone against the best faceoff man and defensive player in the league the majority of the time?

The fact is the Bergeron line has only scored in 1 game so far so Tavares is doing his job. If you think Babcock expects him to outproduce Bergeron you are greatly mistaken. If that was the case he would be giving him more offensive tools to work with. Muzzin/Zaitsev aren't offering any offensive support. They are out there for one reason: DEFENCE. Why did Rielly only play 8% of the game against Bergeron and Tavares played 90% last game? If Babcock was looking for offence from Tavares he would be giving them Rielly.

This is a chess game and Tavares line has been given the role of defence. The sooner you realize that the sooner you can accept that the line is doing well.

If you want to question Babcock's coaching that is another whole subject... and completely fair. Also, they need to be better on the power play.

They also have more HDCF than against, so even though they are heavily starting in their own zone, they are creating more dangerous chances than giving up. The Oisv% 5V5 of only .920 is also low compared to almost everyone else on the team. They haven`t capitalized on their chances enough, but aren`t getting the saves either. If this was Nylander`s line, these same guys would be saying what you are saying and talking about how great he is playing.

 

[SprDaVE]

The line overall has been fine. They just haven't finished on their chances. Tavares has had a few breakaways that he hasn't buried. He had a big time deflection right off the post last game. He's been snake bitten. Marner and Hyman have played just fine.

 

[Not My Tempo]

At 5v5 this year:

Hyman - Tavares - Marner:
53 GF, 34 GA

Marchand - Bergeron - Pastrnak:
27 GF, 24 GA

I’m hoping for a big game from the top line tonight, they are 100% capable of being better than the Bruins top guys.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Everyone has to be better then what they've shown. Tonight, the Tavares line has to shut down their top line AND score. Matthews line has to keep it going.

Bottom 6 can't be useless anymore.

 

[Notsince67]

We're talking about two of our three best players here. We need them to do more than just try to stay alive.

Yeah so if zaitsev and muzzin are playing "simple" stay at home hockey with the stretch pass checked guys like the best defensive center in the league...Bergeron...do you change defensive pairing or do you trust a different forward line? The leafs have a significant defensive issue that remains unaddressed except for assigning the best defensive forwards who happen to be the best offensive forwards as well. More desired offense from this line requires more defensive zone exits from the d. It is quite simple.

 

[Notsince67]

That's the question... is Babcock making the right coaching decision?

I cant see zaitsev utilized in any other way. Stay at home with zero transitional responsibilities. His lack of ability and the lack of rhd depth forces the Tavares line to worry about everything past the harsh marks. I think Babcock has done well carpeting over the hole.

 

[Notsince67]

The line overall has been fine. They just haven't finished on their chances. Tavares has had a few breakaways that he hasn't buried. He had a big time deflection right off the post last game. He's been snake bitten. Marner and Hyman have played just fine.

This. The line has done really well in everything but finish. On the topic of finish, some of the Tavares criticisms are justified.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Wow the narrative is really being twisted here isn't it?

ALL YEAR we said the plan has to be to play the Bergeron line to a DRAW and let our depth beat the other lines. We have executed this perfectly. The only reason Boston is in this series is because of special teams. This series should already be over.

Now we are of course going to get swamped with jilted Nylander fans wanting to put the spotlight on Marner and, also, the Babcock haters acting like there is something wrong with the plan that has been executed pretty much exactly how we wanted 5 on 5.

I mean Cassidy made the adjustment to get the Bergeron line away from Tavares/Marner at home and yet we have fans here saying we should do the same thing? LOL. Stay Gold.

 

[Beyonder91]

Has the defensive assignment drained Marner's energy at all?

"I don't think much," he said. "I mean, I got a lot of energy, which is nice. For me, personally, it’s about trying to make sure I'm always above people, not trying to cheat for offence or anything like that. Our line, we're always thinking about the defensive side of the puck."

https://www.tsn.ca/babcock-urges-stifled-marner-to-just-breathe-1.1294749

More confirmation they are being used as a defensive line.

Has Babcock mentally drained all the offence out of the line?

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Has the defensive assignment drained Marner's energy at all?

"I don't think much," he said. "I mean, I got a lot of energy, which is nice. For me, personally, it’s about trying to make sure I'm always above people, not trying to cheat for offence or anything like that. Our line, we're always thinking about the defensive side of the puck."

https://www.tsn.ca/babcock-urges-stifled-marner-to-just-breathe-1.1294749

More confirmation they are being used as a defensive line.

Has Babcock mentally drained all the offence out of the line?

I am more concerned a young player like Marner will hear this silly noise about his offence drying up and try to press tonight and cheat for offence.

That line needs to keep doing what it's been doing and let our depth scoring win this game for us. Whistles should be put away for game 7.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

It it too much to ask for a 47 goal scorer to be more than a shutdown center, for 1 game?

You neither wrong nor right on the money.

I think the game plan has and likely still will be to shut that line down first and foremost.... letting our secondary scoring take over the game.

It doesn't look good on the eyes. But if it works...im all for having JT have a strong round 2, if he keeps their top line in check.

 

[Beyonder91]

I am more concerned a young player like Marner will hear this silly noise about his offence drying up and try to press tonight and cheat for offence.

That line needs to keep doing what it's been doing and let our depth scoring win this game for us. Whistles should be put away for game 7.

I think they are tuning out all of the noise. All that matters is what is said in the dressing room by your teammates. The dressing room all know the task that the Tavares line has been given and recognize what they are accomplishing in the defensive end.

I'd hope it's a huge motivator for the rest of the team to try and step up themselves. If it isn't then there is a big problem with our personnel.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Tavares is having no better a series if his deflected shot that hit the post in the last game goes in. Yet the narrative would be very different.

It's a lot more relevant to be critical when you're not getting yourself and your line mates chances. Last game Tavares directed 7 shots on net. 2nd on the Leafs after Reilly. A few from prime scoring areas. He is continuing to drive some offence in spite of his shutdown role. Marner is the one having his chances dry up.

 

[Beyonder91]

Marner is the one who has had his chances dry up.

From his quote it sounds like that could be intentional. He is trying not to get caught down low. Making sure he is always in position to protect his own zone.

 

[TheProspector]

I'd be more worried about the trio if they weren't being used extremely defensively (32 ZSR, 54% QoC CF), and were being successful at it (54% xGF).

We're using depth the way this team is going to win with it. You have to decide who to cover, and the other guys burn you.

The Bruins and Leafs have decided to let Marner and Tavares neutralise the top Boston line, allowing Auston, Willie, and Tyler free reign.

Next series might be different. Maybe the CBJ will work on shadowing Matthews -- and then Marner/Tavares will go to town.

 

[Beyonder91]

You neither wrong nor right on the money.

I think the game plan has and likely still will be to shut that line down first and foremost.... letting our secondary scoring take over the game.

It doesn't look good on the eyes. But if it works...im all for having JT have a strong round 2, if he keeps their top line in check.

I think this is a unique scenario against Bergeron who has been a Leaf killer.
I'd think they would be much more offence oriented against most other lines.

 

[Beyonder91]

I'd be more worried about the trio if they weren't being used extremely defensively (32 ZSR, 54% QoC CF), and were being successful at it (54% xGF).

We're using depth the way this team is going to win with it. You have to decide who to cover, and the other guys burn you.

The Bruins and Leafs have decided to let Marner and Tavares neutralise the top Boston line, allowing Auston, Willie, and Tyler free reign.

Next series might be different. Maybe the CBJ will work on shadowing Matthews -- and then Marner/Tavares will go to town.

Exactly! Where were you earlier in the thread? Haha.

 

[Eye Test]

@Beyonder91 most people on here never played hockey at a higher level thus they have limited views. I agree with all your points regarding the Tavares and marner line. You can even see positionally how Tavares is set up to be the highest forward and always be positioned between the Boston forward and our net even in the offensive zone.

Also what people don’t get is 3 elite players playing versus 2 elite players and hyman is a completely different look for JT. He understands that his line has a disadvantage and is focusing on cancelling out that line which they have done instead of trying to surpass the elite Boston Line which could lead to a few more goals but would most likely lead to numerous goals in our own net.

People who are expecting Tavares and marner to not just shut them down but also produce like they were in the regular season are out to lunch and are optimists instead of realists.

We are the better team overall, just poor defensive mistakes, special teams and some solid veterans on Boston have made it difficult for us.

 

[Sypher04]

@Beyonder91 most people on here never played hockey at a higher level thus they have limited views. I agree with all your points regarding the Tavares and marner line. You can even see positionally how Tavares is set up to be the highest forward and always be positioned between the Boston forward and our net even in the offensive zone.

Also what people don’t get is 3 elite players playing versus 2 elite players and hyman is a completely different look for JT. He understands that his line has a disadvantage and is focusing on cancelling out that line which they have done instead of trying to surpass the elite Boston Line which could lead to a few more goals but would most likely lead to numerous goals in our own net.

People who are expecting Tavares and marner to not just shut them down but also produce like they were in the regular season are out to lunch and are optimists instead of realists.

We are the better team overall, just poor defensive mistakes, special teams and some solid veterans on Boston have made it difficult for us.

I agree. Imagine how hard this exact same assignment was for Matthews last year when it was essentially only him. He and Willy weren't left together long enough for it to be comparable despite being similarly successful. Not giving up much, not scoring much.

 

[TheProspector]

Exactly! Where were you earlier in the thread? Haha.

probably flipping out about Marner and JT's lack of production ;-)

 

[Sypher04]

To the comments earlier saying all our best defensive forwards are on the same line right now. That simply isn't true.

Hyman & Brown are our best pure defensive forwards
Then Matthews
Then Marner, marginally behind Auston
Then JT
And finally Kapanen

I will agree Matthews hasn't been at his same best this year, but his line hasn't worked worked pretty well all season. Poor composition imo from basically start to finish. I see no reason to believe Matthews defensive game has regressed in any meaningful way this year

 

[slozo]

@Beyonder91 most people on here never played hockey at a higher level thus they have limited views. I agree with all your points regarding the Tavares and marner line. You can even see positionally how Tavares is set up to be the highest forward and always be positioned between the Boston forward and our net even in the offensive zone.

Also what people don’t get is 3 elite players playing versus 2 elite players and hyman is a completely different look for JT. He understands that his line has a disadvantage and is focusing on cancelling out that line which they have done instead of trying to surpass the elite Boston Line which could lead to a few more goals but would most likely lead to numerous goals in our own net.

People who are expecting Tavares and marner to not just shut them down but also produce like they were in the regular season are out to lunch and are optimists instead of realists.

We are the better team overall, just poor defensive mistakes, special teams and some solid veterans on Boston have made it difficult for us.

Totally agreed.
We cancel out their A+ 1st line, we're already ahead and have a fantastic chance to win as long as the rest of the team plays to their potential overall.

Playoffs is all about match-ups, and although I have been a bit disappointed a few times with Tavares not getting creating better shots when he's had the chance, that line has overall done a great job.

And we've been a great road team! We've won two out of three games in Boston, and this has been a road series so far . . . as disappointed as I was that we lost game 6, I think we have just as good a chance to win game 7.

 

[darrylsittler27]

One of things Toronto lacks is size and grit which makes room for the stars and stops them from being injured or targeted. This falls on the GM's head I'm afraid. There is no use being in denial or blaming Babcock. While many snowflake Leaf fans think you can just have 12 small, skilled guys they need to be ignored and tuned out for the good of the franchise. If we lose Game 7 it is time to be honest with ourselves and realize Colombus is just too big for us anyway.