GDT: Tampa Bay @ Ottawa - 2pm 03/23/13

Slack

everything's fine?
Apr 27, 2012
3,692
466
And I respect this opinion. It's a perfectly valid opinion to have, I just disagree.

What I don't respect is the 20 people that posted "LOLOL NICE KNEEJERK REACTION!!!1", because that's not what the issue is about. It's not about whether Lehner let in a soft goal today, or how he's played in the past few games. It's about: a) what's better for the organization, and b) what's better for Lehner's development. I think in both cases the answer is being a starter in Binghampton.

You are correct that it's about what is better for the organization and what is better for Lehner's development. But to be fair, the suggestion of shipping him back to Bingo began with the statement "what we learned from today's game. So, while I agree with your statement, that other one did seem like a kneejerk reaction to me. Although I didn't use those words, heh.
 

BK201

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
10,815
308
I really don't understand why people are so against Lehner spending another year or two in Bingo. No one's saying he's played bad so far in Ottawa. In fact, he's played very well. But he's 21 years old. That's absurdly young for an NHL goaltender. Look at the top-20 goaltenders this year by save percentage. 4 of them are under 25, the youngest is 23.

Goaltenders take a long time to develop. Considering the current situation in Ottawa, I'd much rather have Lehner play 55-65 games in the AHL than 10 or 20 in the NHL. We don't need him right now, it'd be a luxury we could do without. So why rush him?

This is the only post that really addressed the key issue here:



And I respect this opinion. It's a perfectly valid opinion to have, I just disagree.

What I don't respect is the 20 people that posted "LOLOL NICE KNEEJERK REACTION!!!1", because that's not what the issue is about. It's not about whether Lehner let in a soft goal today, or how he's played in the past few games. It's about: a) what's better for the organization, and b) what's better for Lehner's development. I think in both cases the answer is being a starter in Binghampton.

It is knee jerk he's better than most goalies currently in the league comes in let's in 3 goals gets a win and needs to develope more on the minors.....

Dudes one of the best goalies right now currently in NHL.
 

SilverSeven

Registered User
Apr 16, 2007
21,503
1
Ottawa, Ontario
Just finsihed watching...

I had just typed up a huge post about how Lehner really shut things down when we needed it, even though he didnt face a lot of great chances he was great when we needed it...

Then the last 5 minutes happened. Scary ending. Sheesh

I still dont know why people are so against letting him get a ton of work in Bingo next year. How is having him sit on the bench instead of Bishop going to help him? He has been playing very well, but there is literally NO need to rush him...at all. I guess we will see. I think he is playing well enough to be in the NHL...no doubt about that. I just dont think we need him, and I think being a starter will help him more.
 
Last edited:

craig27

Registered User
Feb 1, 2006
19
0
I really don't understand why people are so against Lehner spending another year or two in Bingo. No one's saying he's played bad so far in Ottawa. In fact, he's played very well. But he's 21 years old. That's absurdly young for an NHL goaltender. Look at the top-20 goaltenders this year by save percentage. 4 of them are under 25, the youngest is 23.

Goaltenders take a long time to develop. Considering the current situation in Ottawa, I'd much rather have Lehner play 55-65 games in the AHL than 10 or 20 in the NHL. We don't need him right now, it'd be a luxury we could do without. So why rush him?

But, but .... Lehner has the 5th best save % in the NHL, and three of the four guys ahead of him have played 1 or 2 games, and the other is Craig Anderson. I can see your point though, that perhaps he would be better served in the AHL rather than as Anderson's backup, but I suspect in a full season he would like get more than 20 games.
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
8,249
2,838
I really don't understand why people are so against Lehner spending another year or two in Bingo. No one's saying he's played bad so far in Ottawa. In fact, he's played very well. But he's 21 years old. That's absurdly young for an NHL goaltender. Look at the top-20 goaltenders this year by save percentage. 4 of them are under 25, the youngest is 23.

I think the biggest issue for me is losing Lehner. He already stated he wouldn't sign another 2 way contact. So shoving the kid in the AHL for another year will lose the kid.

He has things to work on but it's nothing he can't work on in the NHL.

He wants to be up in Ottawa and playing behind Andy will be good for the kid.

IMO you either trade Bishop or lose Lehner. Id rather keep Lehner.
 

SilverSeven

Registered User
Apr 16, 2007
21,503
1
Ottawa, Ontario
I think the biggest issue for me is losing Lehner. He already stated he wouldn't sign another 2 way contact. So shoving the kid in the AHL for another year will lose the kid.

He has things to work on but it's nothing he can't work on in the NHL.

He wants to be up in Ottawa and playing behind Andy will be good for the kid.

IMO you either trade Bishop or lose Lehner. Id rather keep Lehner.

Why cant he sign a 1 way contract if he is in the AHL next year...?
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
8,249
2,838
Just seems foolish to have a goalie in the ahl who is capable of being a good backup+ and pay them a high salary.

Lehners earned it. And if the team wants him. He will likely need to be up in Ottawa.
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
9,701
Lansing, MI
I really don't understand why people are so against Lehner spending another year or two in Bingo. No one's saying he's played bad so far in Ottawa. In fact, he's played very well. But he's 21 years old. That's absurdly young for an NHL goaltender. Look at the top-20 goaltenders this year by save percentage. 4 of them are under 25, the youngest is 23.

Goaltenders take a long time to develop. Considering the current situation in Ottawa, I'd much rather have Lehner play 55-65 games in the AHL than 10 or 20 in the NHL. We don't need him right now, it'd be a luxury we could do without. So why rush him?

This is the only post that really addressed the key issue here:



And I respect this opinion. It's a perfectly valid opinion to have, I just disagree.

What I don't respect is the 20 people that posted "LOLOL NICE KNEEJERK REACTION!!!1", because that's not what the issue is about. It's not about whether Lehner let in a soft goal today, or how he's played in the past few games. It's about: a) what's better for the organization, and b) what's better for Lehner's development. I think in both cases the answer is being a starter in Binghampton.

I don't specifically remember what you said in your original post, but I assume it was to keep Lehner in the AHL next year. It's not an outrageous opinion to have by any means, and you're right that it can take a lot of goalies longer to develop. As I've said, I think he would be better off serving in the NHL, but if management feels otherwise, I'm definitely not going to complain about it or think its some crazy idea.

Also, I'm one of those people who foresee Anderson as our starter for the next 4 years at the minimum. I could be wrong, but if I'm right, that means Anderson has consistently been a great goalie for the next 4 years. Lehner would learn a lot from him backing up at a young age and will have a lot of NHL experience before having to the mentality of an NHL starting goaltender. That could also be an amazing tandem for years to come.
 

Tundraman

ModerationIsKey
Feb 13, 2010
11,678
1,528
North
Why cant he sign a 1 way contract if he is in the AHL next year...?

Because the CBA won't allow it since he's already signed for next year. It's the last year of his ELC.

Lehner doesn't agree because he thinks he burned a year when he sat on the bench the 1st year so that was his thinking when he said he wouldn't sign another 2 way. Nobody asked him to sign a 2 way. I'm sure when he becomes a RFA it will be a 1 way so his statement is moot. Unfortunately for him unless something in the CBA has changed the rules the team's interpretation is that those don't count as games played for a goaltender. Look at Bishop they don't even count games where he played less than 30 minutes towards his 28 games played to remove doubt about his RFA status.

I'm sure his attitude is ok and it's just a difference of opinion on the status of his contract but if it was an attitude issue the Sens would show him the door. Last thing Bryan or Tim want is another problem goalie.

I agree that it looks like Lehner will be a very good goaltender in the NHL in the not too distant future. My point with Lehner is that he has yet to prove beyond a doubt that he deserves to play in the NHL as early as next year considering that the Sens have Anderson and Bishop.

This isn't about pleasing Lehner or being afraid he'll be upset. Lots of players get upset or feel they deserve to play but don't get their way until it's time. Will Lehner be better than Bishop in the future? Probably but that's not what the GM has to look at. The best for the org may end up being trading Bishop after all but unless a super offer comes along there isn't any rush right now. Lehner has had good games and parts of games but at the moment as a backup to Anderson he's not so far ahead of Bishop to convince Bryan Murray to hurry a trade. Finishing this year and starting next year in the AHL wouldn't hurt him if that's what Bryan decides.

btw) I posted "what we learned" for dramatic effect and it worked well
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,755
11,055
Dubai Marina
I don't think he stood out either way.Played 14 minutes but not very noticeable.

Wut?

DD was extremely noticeable. His best game in the NHL easily. He was very strong on the forecheck, caused a couple turnovers and was solid on the cycling with a few huge hits.

Very strong game by DD.
 

SilverSeven

Registered User
Apr 16, 2007
21,503
1
Ottawa, Ontario
Because the CBA won't allow it since he's already signed for next year. It's the last year of his ELC.

Lehner doesn't agree because he thinks he burned a year when he sat on the bench the 1st year so that was his thinking when he said he wouldn't sign another 2 way. Nobody asked him to sign a 2 way. I'm sure when he becomes a RFA it will be a 1 way so his statement is moot. Unfortunately for him unless something in the CBA has changed the rules the team's interpretation is that those don't count as games played for a goaltender. Look at Bishop they don't even count games where he played less than 30 minutes towards his 28 games played to remove doubt about his RFA status.

I'm sure his attitude is ok and it's just a difference of opinion on the status of his contract but if it was an attitude issue the Sens would show him the door. Last thing Bryan or Tim want is another problem goalie.

I agree that it looks like Lehner will be a very good goaltender in the NHL in the not too distant future. My point with Lehner is that he has yet to prove beyond a doubt that he deserves to play in the NHL as early as next year considering that the Sens have Anderson and Bishop.

This isn't about pleasing Lehner or being afraid he'll be upset. Lots of players get upset or feel they deserve to play but don't get their way until it's time. Will Lehner be better than Bishop in the future? Probably but that's not what the GM has to look at. The best for the org may end up being trading Bishop after all but unless a super offer comes along there isn't any rush right now. Lehner has had good games and parts of games but at the moment as a backup to Anderson he's not so far ahead of Bishop to convince Bryan Murray to hurry a trade. Finishing this year and starting next year in the AHL wouldn't hurt him if that's what Bryan decides.

btw) I posted "what we learned" for dramatic effect and it worked well

Yes I know, thats the point I was making. There seems to be a few people who think he needs to be reupped after this year.

Where he plays next year has no bearing on whether or not he signs a 1 way contract next season (for the season after)
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
31,118
438
yes
Wut?

DD was extremely noticeable. His best game in the NHL easily. He was very strong on the forecheck, caused a couple turnovers and was solid on the cycling with a few huge hits.

Very strong game by DD.

Agreed, I liked DD. He was making a difference. Awesome on the fore-check.
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
8,249
2,838
Because the CBA won't allow it since he's already signed for next year. It's the last year of his ELC.

Lehner doesn't agree because he thinks he burned a year when he sat on the bench the 1st year so that was his thinking when he said he wouldn't sign another 2 way. Nobody asked him to sign a 2 way. I'm sure when he becomes a RFA it will be a 1 way so his statement is moot. Unfortunately for him unless something in the CBA has changed the rules the team's interpretation is that those don't count as games played for a goaltender. Look at Bishop they don't even count games where he played less than 30 minutes towards his 28 games played to remove doubt about his RFA status.

I'm sure his attitude is ok and it's just a difference of opinion on the status of his contract but if it was an attitude issue the Sens would show him the door. Last thing Bryan or Tim want is another problem goalie.

I agree that it looks like Lehner will be a very good goaltender in the NHL in the not too distant future. My point with Lehner is that he has yet to prove beyond a doubt that he deserves to play in the NHL as early as next year considering that the Sens have Anderson and Bishop.

This isn't about pleasing Lehner or being afraid he'll be upset. Lots of players get upset or feel they deserve to play but don't get their way until it's time. Will Lehner be better than Bishop in the future? Probably but that's not what the GM has to look at. The best for the org may end up being trading Bishop after all but unless a super offer comes along there isn't any rush right now. Lehner has had good games and parts of games but at the moment as a backup to Anderson he's not so far ahead of Bishop to convince Bryan Murray to hurry a trade. Finishing this year and starting next year in the AHL wouldn't hurt him if that's what Bryan decides.

btw) I posted "what we learned" for dramatic effect and it worked well

I think as a team you need to look at what you want in net.

While I agree you shouldn't do something only to please a player, by making a player frustrated and upset won't be good if you want to keep him around.

Lehner could be a backup or more on many NHL teams now. He likely knows that too.

Sens need to think about if they want Lehner around or not. Lehner needs to know that if he comes up hes likely a back up.

I just don't see Lehner putting up with it when he could be a goalie on an NHL team.
 

The Expert

Registered Expert
Aug 31, 2008
13,276
1,252
BC
Wut?

DD was extremely noticeable. His best game in the NHL easily. He was very strong on the forecheck, caused a couple turnovers and was solid on the cycling with a few huge hits.

Very strong game by DD.

I didn't say it when I originally quoted the same post as you, but I agree I thought it was his best game yet in the NHL.
 

ChocolateLeclaire

Registered User
Jan 12, 2010
12,042
2
Ottawa, Canada
I don't specifically remember what you said in your original post, but I assume it was to keep Lehner in the AHL next year. It's not an outrageous opinion to have by any means, and you're right that it can take a lot of goalies longer to develop. As I've said, I think he would be better off serving in the NHL, but if management feels otherwise, I'm definitely not going to complain about it or think its some crazy idea.

Also, I'm one of those people who foresee Anderson as our starter for the next 4 years at the minimum. I could be wrong, but if I'm right, that means Anderson has consistently been a great goalie for the next 4 years. Lehner would learn a lot from him backing up at a young age and will have a lot of NHL experience before having to the mentality of an NHL starting goaltender. That could also be an amazing tandem for years to come.

I was going to write a lengthy post disagreeing with those who say Lehner is better served in the AHL but this post nails my thoughts perfectly.

If there was a depth chart on this team, it goes Anderson, Lehner then Bishop. Anderson is the best goalie on this roster RIGHT NOW, Lehner has outplayed Bishop and is the goaltender of the FUTURE. Bishop is the odd man out (through no fault of his own) as he is the third best goalie on the roster. He would probably be the best goalie on a lot of other rosters such as Philly, TB, or Edmonton which is why he has value on the trade market.

Not to mention we have Driedger and Brassard in the pipeline tearing it up in the juniors so we have depth for the foreseeable future.
 

playasRus

Registered User
Mar 21, 2009
9,284
2,015
I think the point is that it's better for Lehner's development to play 60 games in the AHL than 20 games in the NHL, and it's PROBABLY better for the Ottawa Senators to play Anderson 60 games and backup (Bishop?) 20 games, than Anderson 40 games and Lehner 40 games.

I'm pro sending him back 1 year in the AHL for his last year of his ELC and staying loyal to Anderson. If that really sours Lehner's relatiionship with the Sens then clearly we've got another prima donna on our hands. I think he's mature enoguh to realize it's not a slight against him nor that we're trying to bury him but doing whats best for both parties in the long term. This is a business of winning and if management feels Anderson playing more gives us a better chance he needs to udnerstand that it'd make him a self important kid.
 

DylanSensFan

BEESHIP: NBH
Aug 3, 2010
9,373
1,699
Calgary
I really don't understand why people are so against Lehner spending another year or two in Bingo. No one's saying he's played bad so far in Ottawa. In fact, he's played very well. But he's 21 years old. That's absurdly young for an NHL goaltender. Look at the top-20 goaltenders this year by save percentage. 4 of them are under 25, the youngest is 23.

Goaltenders take a long time to develop. Considering the current situation in Ottawa, I'd much rather have Lehner play 55-65 games in the AHL than 10 or 20 in the NHL. We don't need him right now, it'd be a luxury we could do without. So why rush him?

This is the only post that really addressed the key issue here:



And I respect this opinion. It's a perfectly valid opinion to have, I just disagree.

What I don't respect is the 20 people that posted "LOLOL NICE KNEEJERK REACTION!!!1", because that's not what the issue is about. It's not about whether Lehner let in a soft goal today, or how he's played in the past few games. It's about: a) what's better for the organization, and b) what's better for Lehner's development. I think in both cases the answer is being a starter in Binghampton.

I think this entire post is incorrect. What is best for Lehner is not another season in Bingo. Not even close. Rask, who is now boston's starter spent time backing up Thomas. So because Thomas was the starter does that mean that Rask should not be in the NHL? Or Khudobin should not be a back up now behind Rask. Ridiculous line of thought.

a) The organization will stunt the development of Lehner by giving him another year in Bingo. Murray specifically said the only reason Lehner was in Bingo was for their goal tending depth and because he has a 2way contract. Murray said that Lehner was good enough to be on the Senators at the start of the season.

b) Lehner is going to want the hell out of here and for good reason if his stats prove that he can be one of the top goaltenders in the NHL and yet is spending his time in the AHL.
 

Tundraman

ModerationIsKey
Feb 13, 2010
11,678
1,528
North
Yes I know, thats the point I was making. There seems to be a few people who think he needs to be reupped after this year.

Where he plays next year has no bearing on whether or not he signs a 1 way contract next season (for the season after)

My comment wasn't all for you just commenting on some previous statements by others too. :)

I agree with you there is no rush to re-up him but when they do re-sign him if it is a 1-way Bryan Murray doesn't usually let 1-way guys start in the AHL. I'm sure once he gets a 1-way, probably for 2014-15 he'll play in the NHL. Bryan will clear the room for him if he's ready.

Again for the sake of others ... If Bryan can package Bishop for a top 4 D or top 6 forward that helps right now then go for it otherwise why rush when Lehner is not clearly ahead of Bishop at this time.

btw) To those who think Lehner was far ahead of Bishop in the AHL this year that's not the case. Bishop wanted to go to Bingo early on but they made him wait. He didn't have a training camp and mostly sat idle. His 1st few games were bad but after that he played very well.
 

DylanSensFan

BEESHIP: NBH
Aug 3, 2010
9,373
1,699
Calgary
I think the point is that it's better for Lehner's development to play 60 games in the AHL than 20 games in the NHL, and it's PROBABLY better for the Ottawa Senators to play Anderson 60 games and backup (Bishop?) 20 games, than Anderson 40 games and Lehner 40 games.

I'm pro sending him back 1 year in the AHL for his last year of his ELC and staying loyal to Anderson. If that really sours Lehner's relatiionship with the Sens then clearly we've got another prima donna on our hands. I think he's mature enoguh to realize it's not a slight against him nor that we're trying to bury him but doing whats best for both parties in the long term. This is a business of winning and if management feels Anderson playing more gives us a better chance he needs to udnerstand that it'd make him a self important kid.

Not really... it is better for him to play 30 games in the N than 60 in the A. He needs to face better shooters and deal with faster play making. The only place he will find that is in Ottawa or another NHL team.
 

DylanSensFan

BEESHIP: NBH
Aug 3, 2010
9,373
1,699
Calgary
My comment wasn't all for you just commenting on some previous statements by others too. :)

I agree with you there is no rush to re-up him but when they do re-sign him if it is a 1-way Bryan Murray doesn't usually let 1-way guys start in the AHL. I'm sure once he gets a 1-way, probably for 2014-15 he'll play in the NHL. Bryan will clear the room for him if he's ready.

Again for the sake of others ... If Bryan can package Bishop for a top 4 D or top 6 forward that helps right now then go for it otherwise why rush when Lehner is not clearly ahead of Bishop at this time.

btw) To those who think Lehner was far ahead of Bishop in the AHL this year that's not the case. Bishop wanted to go to Bingo early on but they made him wait. He didn't have a training camp and mostly sat idle. His 1st few games were bad but after that he played very well.

He is starting more than Bishop right now... so how exactly do you contextualize this statement behind any sort of truth, other than hearsay, or speaking from your own reality.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->