Tallon's Team

[Clint]

Saw this neat little tool posted on the main board.

• https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/jason1478/viz/NHLDraft2003-2020AnalysisV2/NHLDraftHistory

Worth fiddling with for a few minutes. I put together what the Panthers would look like based exclusively on draft selections from the Tallon era.

Forwards
Huberdeau / Barkov / Doonskoi
Hyman / Trocheck / Tippett
Denisenko / Bjugstad / Crouse
Grimaldi / Borgstrom / Shaw

13th forward either Heponiemi or Malgin

Defense
Weegar / Ekblad
Matheson / Petrovic
Brown / Gudbranson

7th defenseman either Riley Stillman or Ian McCoshen

Goalie
Knight
Montembault

10 seasons, 86 selections, 33 with at least 1 game played in the NHL.

That's a pretty ugly roster. That defense, woof.

Click to read more...

 

[Little Bobby Boo]

Tallon made some good moves early on and hit home runs with most of his early first rounders up till 2015. Bolland was his huge blunder early on.

His tenure after the Rowe stuff was really painful. March +Smith, Bob, Connolly, Stralman, Darling buyout.

Ownership was correct about moving on from DT and got a ton of backlash in how it went about it/who they replaced him with. But they were correct that his time was done, and the results back that up.

 

[kerrabria]

Saw this neat little tool posted on the main board.

• https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/jason1478/viz/NHLDraft2003-2020AnalysisV2/NHLDraftHistory

Worth fiddling with for a few minutes. I put together what the Panthers would look like based exclusively on draft selections from the Tallon era.

Forwards
Huberdeau / Barkov / Doonskoi
Hyman / Trocheck / Tippett
Denisenko / Bjugstad / Crouse
Grimaldi / Borgstrom / Shaw

13th forward either Heponiemi or Malgin

Defense
Weegar / Ekblad
Matheson / Petrovic
Brown / Gudbranson

7th defenseman either Riley Stillman or Ian McCoshen

Goalie
Knight
Montembault

10 seasons, 86 selections, 33 with at least 1 game played in the NHL.

That's a pretty ugly roster. That defense, woof.

You can take off Borgstrom because that was an analytics pick 100%.

Tallon made some good moves early on and hit home runs with most of his early first rounders up till 2015. Bolland was his huge blunder early on.

His tenure after the Rowe stuff was really painful. March +Smith, Bob, Connolly, Stralman, Darling buyout.

Ownership was correct about moving on from DT and got a ton of backlash in how it went about it/who they replaced him with. But they were correct that his time was done, and the results back that up.

His entire tenure was brutal. His first round picks from 2010 - 2015 were Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Howden, Huberdeau, Matheson, Barkov, Ekblad, and Crouse.

And he made what? 3 good trades in those first 6 years? (Campbell, Jagr, Reilly Smith). That's a brutal tenure.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

You can take off Borgstrom because that was an analytics pick 100%.

His entire tenure was brutal. His first round picks from 2010 - 2015 were Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Howden, Huberdeau, Matheson, Barkov, Ekblad, and Crouse.

And he made what? 3 good trades in those first 6 years? (Campbell, Jagr, Reilly Smith). That's a brutal tenure.

His tenure was not brutal. You don't get two division titles, (the second with a young core on the rise), and three playoff appearances with brutal.
If ownership doesn't step in inside the 2015-2016 season and there after, the team doesn't stall and we don't sit here in mediocrity since. That would be good, right?

 

[Bag Of Beans]

I know he wasn't a draft pick, but Trader Dale did this franchise a solid by acquiring Jagr.
I shudder to think where Barkov might be today without his guidance.

 

[ursavolta]

Zito is a breath of fresh air, that cannot be argued. I am excited to see what this team can do under the current mgmt. Regardless, as much as how Tallon and co. screwed up this team, we made a couple playoff appearances under his belt. We created excitement and elevated this to a place that free agents and players would like to sign, albeit he did so with a heavy purse. We cannot discount that. Was he the perfect GM? No, far from it. With just a couple moves Zito has already proven to us competent GM's do exist. Makes me think what if we had Zito or a competent GM 5 or 6 years back.. what a difference it would make.


What a bummer that Bob's latest contract is Tallon's last F-U to the team.

 

[ShootIt]

Matheson wasn't a bad pick. The guy has NHL talent. He just couldn't develop the consistency needed to be a legit top 4 defenseman. Never will know if it was something that was redflagged prior to drafting him or he just had poor coaches here

Unless of course you knew back then he was never going to be a consistent defenseman.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Tallon gets to much hate. He was literally middle of the pack, and it can easily be summarized.

Elite trading
Mediocre drafting
Horrendous free agents.
He shouldn't have been fired in 2016 and shouldn't have been rehired in 2017.

He took the worst franchise in the league to 3 playoff appearances in 9 years (considering where they were in 2010, not sure how many more appearances could be expected?), and the Panthers averaged 12 more points a season under Tallon than they did in the previous 10 years under GMs Joyce, Martin, Keenan, Dudley. Is anyone following Benning or Holland or Francis lately?

 

[letsgrowcactus]

His tenure was not brutal. You don't get two division titles, (the second with a young core on the rise), and three playoff appearances with brutal.
If ownership doesn't step in inside the 2015-2016 season and there after, the team doesn't stall and we don't sit here in mediocrity since. That would be good, right?

Two first round exits and one "play-ins" over ten years is very meh in a league where half the teams make it.
The 2010 draft was extremely bad (three first round picks including pick n.3 and all you get is a bottom pair guy and a bottom6 center? While Bjugstad's career was somewhat derailed by injuries, that draft class still sucked).
The Bolland signing was a disaster. Giving Matheson 8 years after one full year in the NHL was a an absolutely terrible idea as well.
The expansion draft was indefensible (if you really want to get rid of Smith because he's "problematic", trade him for a similarly paid played who fell out of favor with his team.) Protecting Pysyk, Petrovic and Bjugstad (who was coming off a horrendous season) and giving them Marchesseault was either a terrible evaluation of talent, or a spiteful "suck it" move to the "Computer boys". Either way, it was bad GM move.
His last offseason with us was absolutely horrendous. When you spent over 20 mill and your 10 mil goalie immediately becomes an albatross, your Dman gets traded with pick+prospect two years later, your forward is traded a season and half later and the "best value" piece is the 1.7 mil fourth liner who's probably also signed for a year too long...
There's also the crap value we got for Trocheck (who rebounded as a 2C with Carolina and outscored all our guys except Barkov and Huberdeau).

I give him credit for Barkov and Huberdeau (though those were n.2 and 3 picks) and Knight; Ekblad was also a solid pick. The Jagr signing was an awesome move, and hiring Quenneville was great. Still, while calling his whole tenure "brutal" may be a bit too strong (2010-2016 was not without flaws but overall decent), his management after the Rowe experiment was an absolute fiasco.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Two first round exits and one "play-ins" over ten years is very meh in a league where half the teams make it.
The 2010 draft was extremely bad (three first round picks including pick n.3 and all you get is a bottom pair guy and a bottom6 center? While Bjugstad's career was somewhat derailed by injuries, that draft class still sucked).
The Bolland signing was a disaster. Giving Matheson 8 years after one full year in the NHL was a an absolutely terrible idea as well.
The expansion draft was indefensible (if you really want to get rid of Smith because he's "problematic", trade him for a similarly paid played who fell out of favor with his team.) Protecting Pysyk, Petrovic and Bjugstad (who was coming off a horrendous season) and giving them Marchesseault was either a terrible evaluation of talent, or a spiteful "suck it" move to the "Computer boys". Either way, it was bad GM move.
His last offseason with us was absolutely horrendous. When you spent over 20 mill and your 10 mil goalie immediately becomes an albatross, your Dman gets traded with pick+prospect two years later, your forward is traded a season and half later and the "best value" piece is the 1.7 mil fourth liner who's probably also signed for a year too long...
There's also the crap value we got for Trocheck (who rebounded as a 2C with Carolina and outscored all our guys except Barkov and Huberdeau).

I give him credit for Barkov and Huberdeau (though those were n.2 and 3 picks) and Knight; Ekblad was also a solid pick. The Jagr signing was an awesome move, and hiring Quenneville was great. Still, while calling his whole tenure "brutal" may be a bit too strong (2010-2016 was not without flaws but overall decent), his management after the Rowe experiment was an absolute fiasco.

Well considering when he first got here he said we were going through a 5 year rebuild, no playoffs should have been expected for the first 5.
And one of those first round exits was due to being sabotaged by ownership during the season. By the time the play-in happened things were already off the rails. And I said they were off the rails after that 2016 offseason happened. They were just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks at that point.

 

[Ghoste]

Two first round exits and one "play-ins" over ten years is very meh in a league where half the teams make it.
The 2010 draft was extremely bad (three first round picks including pick n.3 and all you get is a bottom pair guy and a bottom6 center? While Bjugstad's career was somewhat derailed by injuries, that draft class still sucked).
The Bolland signing was a disaster. Giving Matheson 8 years after one full year in the NHL was a an absolutely terrible idea as well.
The expansion draft was indefensible (if you really want to get rid of Smith because he's "problematic", trade him for a similarly paid played who fell out of favor with his team.) Protecting Pysyk, Petrovic and Bjugstad (who was coming off a horrendous season) and giving them Marchesseault was either a terrible evaluation of talent, or a spiteful "suck it" move to the "Computer boys". Either way, it was bad GM move.
His last offseason with us was absolutely horrendous. When you spent over 20 mill and your 10 mil goalie immediately becomes an albatross, your Dman gets traded with pick+prospect two years later, your forward is traded a season and half later and the "best value" piece is the 1.7 mil fourth liner who's probably also signed for a year too long...
There's also the crap value we got for Trocheck (who rebounded as a 2C with Carolina and outscored all our guys except Barkov and Huberdeau).

I give him credit for Barkov and Huberdeau (though those were n.2 and 3 picks) and Knight; Ekblad was also a solid pick. The Jagr signing was an awesome move, and hiring Quenneville was great. Still, while calling his whole tenure "brutal" may be a bit too strong (2010-2016 was not without flaws but overall decent), his management after the Rowe experiment was an absolute fiasco.

It was totally a “suck it” move. But he paid the price in the end because of that spiteful move.

-ghoste

 

[KW]

Tallon’s big mistake was to not understand that his ultimate boss and customer are the paying public. After he was rehired, he went on a vendetta tour. He sucked.

 

[5 Hole]

You had me at Matheson / Petrovic. Mmmmm, delicious.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

Jacques Martin says what’s up

 

[Bag Of Beans]

Jacques Martin says what’s up

 

[Beezeral]

Well considering when he first got here he said we were going through a 5 year rebuild, no playoffs should have been expected for the first 5.
And one of those first round exits was due to being sabotaged by ownership during the season. By the time the play-in happened things were already off the rails. And I said they were off the rails after that 2016 offseason happened. They were just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks at that point.

He said it would take 5 years and he still couldn’t get it right with 10. He was a failure. Simple as that

 

[CanadianPantherFan]

You can take off Borgstrom because that was an analytics pick 100%.

His entire tenure was brutal. His first round picks from 2010 - 2015 were Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Howden, Huberdeau, Matheson, Barkov, Ekblad, and Crouse.

And he made what? 3 good trades in those first 6 years? (Campbell, Jagr, Reilly Smith). That's a brutal tenure.

Booth trade. Hated it at the time, but it was a win trade. He wasn’t the same player after the two concussions . Tallon saw it before anyone else did.

 

[CanadianPantherFan]

I know he wasn't a draft pick, but Trader Dale did this franchise a solid by acquiring Jagr.
I shudder to think where Barkov might be today without his guidance.

Even moreso Huberdeau mind and body development. He was floundering on Florida’s third line into an all star. The Jagr effect gave us two unquestioned superstars in present day.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

He said it would take 5 years and he still couldn’t get it right with 10. He was a failure. Simple as that

Didn't he win two division titles in those first 5? With a young team at that point and a rebuilt project pool.
And he didn't have 10 years. As I said, if ownership doesn't step in after 5 years the build continues. After he was "promoted", all bets were off, and his tenure was over. It was someone else's team.

 

[Beezeral]

Didn't he win two division titles in those first 5? With a young team at that point and a rebuilt project pool.
And he didn't have 10 years. As I said, if ownership doesn't step in after 5 years the build continues. After he was "promoted", all bets were off, and his tenure was over. It was someone else's team.

And neither team was sustainable.
The 2012 team won the division with 94 points and a -24 goal differential. They weren’t very good as evidenced by how they finished LAST in the NHL the following season. 2012 was fun with the sunrise express and all, but it was a mediocre team that rode overtime losses to win an all time bad division.

as for the 2015. It’s the same thing. They rode the shit out of that 12 game win streak. Outside of that streak they played at an average 92 point pace.

you keep mentioning the problems caused by the computer boys but fail to mention all the messes of Tallon’s they had to clean up.

Lawson crouse
The ENTIRE 2010 draft, etc

the panthers had premium picks in two of the deepest drafts in history and went 0/4 on first round picks.

the myth that dale tallon was anything other than extremely mediocre as a GM needs to die. It completely falls apart the second you look any deeper than 2 division title.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

And neither team was sustainable.
The 2012 team won the division with 94 points and a -24 goal differential. They weren’t very good as evidenced by how they finished LAST in the NHL the following season. 2012 was fun with the sunrise express and all, but it was a mediocre team that rode overtime losses to win an all time bad division.

as for the 2015. It’s the same thing. They rode the shit out of that 12 game win streak. Outside of that streak they played at an average 92 point pace.

you keep mentioning the problems caused by the computer boys but fail to mention all the messes of Tallon’s they had to clean up.

Lawson crouse
The ENTIRE 2010 draft, etc

the panthers had premium picks in two of the deepest drafts in history and went 0/4 on first round picks.

the myth that dale tallon was anything other than extremely mediocre as a GM needs to die. It completely falls apart the second you look any deeper than 2 division title.

This isn't about whether he was mediocre or not, it's more about him having an incomplete. And not making him some evil entity because he was the GM here.
That 2012 team was a surprise. It wasn't part of the plan. But I would think one would get extra points for winning a division while still being in rebuild.
It doesn't matter if the 2012 team was lucky or not, it still happened. The team did well, we don't need to find something wrong with it because Tallon was the GM.
And that 2015 team having a 12 game winning is not a bad thing. Those count. Those are games they played and won. Do we do this with every team that played well, discount their longest winning streak?
The reason why that team had a high PDO or whatever is because of the shananagins that started up behind the scenes with ownership and the coaching. Gallant couldn't coach the way he wanted because of the involvement from upstairs and they coasted on a high shooting percentage and good goaltending when their level of play dropped in the middle of the season. I noticed the difference in play the moment it happened, I just didn't know why at that time.
On top of all this the team improved 25 points in standings the season before hand. It wasn't some unsustainable play that got them their improvement.

 

[Beezeral]

This isn't about whether he was mediocre or not, it's more about him having an incomplete. And not making him some evil entity because he was the GM here.
That 2012 team was a surprise. It wasn't part of the plan. But I would think one would get extra points for winning a division while still being in rebuild.
It doesn't matter if the 2012 team was lucky or not, it still happened. The team did well, we don't need to find something wrong with it because Tallon was the GM.
And that 2015 team having a 12 game winning is not a bad thing. Those count. Those are games they played and won. Do we do this with every team that played well, discount their longest winning streak?
The reason why that team had a high PDO or whatever is because of the shananagins that started up behind the scenes with ownership and the coaching. Gallant couldn't coach the way he wanted because of the involvement from upstairs and they coasted on a high shooting percentage and good goaltending when their level of play dropped in the middle of the season. I noticed the difference in play the moment it happened, I just didn't know why at that time.
On top of all this the team improved 25 points in standings the season before hand. It wasn't some unsustainable play that got them their improvement.

You are only looking at the result and ignoring the extremely flawed process. Two fluky division titles should not mask the numerous critical mistakes tallon made along the way. And why the hell does he get an incomplete? After 5 years he had more than enough time to prove his blueprint and he failed. Numerous bad free agent signings. Numerous blown draft picks, etc.

 

[BeezKnees]

Not defending Tallon's blunders (there were plenty) but need to look at the positives too that we are still benefiting from.

Matheson blunder: signing a long term deal gambling that he will grow into that contract...failure. But he did essentially the same with Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barky to team friendly deals we are still able to build around.

Drafting blunders, sure: But also left us stocked with Weegar, Knight, Denisenko, Tippett, Hepo, Gildon, Ludvig

Expansion draft blunder: but made up for March/Smith pretty immediatley by getting Hoff and Dadonov

Parting gift of Bobrovsky: also parting gift of spencer Knight

And overall while he didn't turn us into a cup contender as promised, he turned us from being a disgrace to a team that can be taken seriously and laid a foundation for us

 

[Beezeral]

Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barky to team friendly deals we are still able to build around.

Literally all of these deals were done by the computer boys

 

[16Skippy]

You can take off Borgstrom because that was an analytics pick 100%.

His entire tenure was brutal. His first round picks from 2010 - 2015 were Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Howden, Huberdeau, Matheson, Barkov, Ekblad, and Crouse.

And he made what? 3 good trades in those first 6 years? (Campbell, Jagr, Reilly Smith). That's a brutal tenure.

He had a lot of good trades in that period. The Ballard trade was on the same level and the Campbell and Matheson trades.

I think he was just too patient, and then over corrected in his last year with those garbage FA signings and Trocheck trade.

And of course he blew the expansion draft, whatever happened there.