Tallon’s time is up?

[pantherbot]

It's harder to judge him after the Elmer Fudd Fiasco. Tallon hit a home run going against everyone who knew better than him when he hired Gallant. Tallon didn't fire Gallant. Tallon is far from perfect, but he finally had **** going in the right direction when they pulled the rug out from under him. The expansion draft will always be a sore spot, but is it unreasonable to think that it may be possible that DT was told to get rid of Reilly (didn't step up when needed due to injuries to top players, bad soldier, didn't take being made the scapegoat well, obviously not a TEAM guy, is so overpaid) Smith by Mr West Point? Here's your rug back, Dale, sorry for the **** stains, we're sure you can get them out....

Agree with this. Really hard to judge tallon when ownership meddles so much. Not saying I'm a huge fan, certainly moves i have liked and didn't like, but he's not entirely responsible for the current team for better or worse.

 

[Clint]

So that's your answer as to what the Panthers are doing wrong.

So, in short, everything.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

What this team did wrong was what it did after our last playoff appearance. When you're on the verge like that, to suddenly push your GM out of his position and then replace 1/3rd of the team is a huge gamble and it usually doesn't pay off...and it didn't in the Panthers' case. Add to that they also put all the blame on the coach early on and left him on the curb after a road game in a classless move, and you've got all the answers you need as to what ownership is doing wrong. Despite all the knocks on him, Tallon had a good plan and helped this team take a big step forward from where it was a decade ago, and there was no reason at that point to not stay the course. Putting Rowe in there and letting him monkey with the team the way he did was a huge mistake and big setback. Other teams don't make big changes when they're showing an upward trend, they stay the course until it's clear the course isn't taking them to their destination. Time after time the Panthers have failed to do that and changed at the drop of a hat. First Huizenga wanted to sell the team and was dropping payroll to make it attractive...then he got a marquis player to make it more attractive for a year, then dropped payroll again thinking it was too expensive. Cohen bought the team (well, a group he headed did) then hired one guy (Dudley) to run the team, then hired his own coach (Keenan, a disruption unto himself) and had both answer to HIM, meddling with operations and making a mess of things. The next pair that bought the team made a mess of their own situation and finances and couldn't afford the team and that hamstrung it, then the current owner started out right but decided a couple seasons ago to act like Cohen, and got bit for it. Fortunately for us fans he admitted his error and reversed it as best he could, but damage was done and it's not a snap of the fingers to undo it.

So that's your answer as to what the Panthers are doing wrong.

Pretty much in a nutshell how I see the situation. But let's just set that all aside for a second (to those who want to let him go), and say let's fire Tallon. What's the situation? We have some people in the FO I'm not confident in, to put it lightly, to hire the right person to make us that team and franchise we've been waiting for for 25 years. And that includes becoming a contender, for years to come. I'm not interested in someone who's just going to get us to mediocre to bad, squeeze into the playoffs some years and bow out early, in between bottom 10 finishes. We've done that. You can see how a good owner can affect a franchise, by just looking to our neighbors up north in the state.

 

[pantherbot]

Yes agree 100 percent. That won’t fit the narrative around here that our d is trash, even tho they’ve allowed minimal chances recently, and our forwards are trash. Goaltending is literally the only reason we aren’t at least 4 points higher in the standings and possibly more. It’s cut and dry and people refuse to accept it. It’s usually never this black and white but the goaltending at the start of year and especially rangers game was worst I’ve ever seen

Goaltending has sucked bad, but I don't think you can say we've had great defense it overall play either. There have been lots of breakdowns and at times the pdo may be in our favor but it sure doesn't look like it should be. We've had some good stretches, but no way I would say we've been playing well.

Maybe the guys are too tense with reimer and hutch in net, I don't know. Good teams find a way to win even if a key piece is missing. We have not figured out how to do that. There are other teams that have comparable goalies (based on historical performance, not this season) but have had better starts - canes, sabres, devils, isles, canucks. I'm not saying these are good teams, but they don't have great goaltending either and are doing better. It's not an acceptable excuse to not even be at .500 with a supposedly really good roster.

 

[pantherbot]

What this team did wrong was what it did after our last playoff appearance. When you're on the verge like that, to suddenly push your GM out of his position and then replace 1/3rd of the team is a huge gamble and it usually doesn't pay off...and it didn't in the Panthers' case. Add to that they also put all the blame on the coach early on and left him on the curb after a road game in a classless move, and you've got all the answers you need as to what ownership is doing wrong. Despite all the knocks on him, Tallon had a good plan and helped this team take a big step forward from where it was a decade ago, and there was no reason at that point to not stay the course. Putting Rowe in there and letting him monkey with the team the way he did was a huge mistake and big setback. Other teams don't make big changes when they're showing an upward trend, they stay the course until it's clear the course isn't taking them to their destination. Time after time the Panthers have failed to do that and changed at the drop of a hat. First Huizenga wanted to sell the team and was dropping payroll to make it attractive...then he got a marquis player to make it more attractive for a year, then dropped payroll again thinking it was too expensive. Cohen bought the team (well, a group he headed did) then hired one guy (Dudley) to run the team, then hired his own coach (Keenan, a disruption unto himself) and had both answer to HIM, meddling with operations and making a mess of things. The next pair that bought the team made a mess of their own situation and finances and couldn't afford the team and that hamstrung it, then the current owner started out right but decided a couple seasons ago to act like Cohen, and got bit for it. Fortunately for us fans he admitted his error and reversed it as best he could, but damage was done and it's not a snap of the fingers to undo it.

So that's your answer as to what the Panthers are doing wrong.

Great summary. Poor ownership has continually plagued this team. Still does, until vinnie has proven to be hands off

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Goaltending has sucked bad, but I don't think you can say we've had great defense it overall play either. There have been lots of breakdowns and at times the pdo may be in our favor but it sure doesn't look like it should be. We've had some good stretches, but no way I would say we've been playing well.

Maybe the guys are too tense with reimer and hutch in net, I don't know. Good teams find a way to win even if a key piece is missing. We have not figured out how to do that. There are other teams that have comparable goalies (based on historical performance, not this season) but have had better starts - canes, sabres, devils, isles, canucks. I'm not saying these are good teams, but they don't have great goaltending either and are doing better. It's not an acceptable excuse to not even be at .500 with a supposedly really good roster.

We have always had poor starts, even in the 2015/16 year.

Last year we won 4 of the first fourteen games (+1 OTL, 1 SOL) and 7 of the first 20.
2016-17, won 6 of the first 14 and 10 of the first 20.*
2015-16, won 5 of the first 14 and 8 of the first 20. (YAY PLAYOFFS) (This is why the 12 win streak was necessary to make it...)
2014-15, won 5 of the first 14, 8 of the first 20.
2013-14 won 3 of the first 14 and 4 of the first 20.
2012-13 won 4 of the first 14 and 6 of the fist 20
2011-12 won 7 of the first 14 and 11 of the first 20 (YAY PLAOFFS)
2010-11 won 7 of the first 14 and 9 of the first 20.

(*When Gallant got fired, that was the second best record we had in seven years...)

This franchise loves to suck early on. The team can't get enough of it. They thrive on it (or at least apparently enjoy it enough to suck. Every. Damn. Year.)

We can still climb out of that hole but it needs to start ASAP or we're done.

 

[Asheville]

Add to that they also put all the blame on the coach early on and left him on the curb after a road game in a classless move

For those that want Tallon fired, that move right there will impede hiring his replacement most. For all their military bravado, these owners ironically underestimated the importance of professional reputation. Frankly, I believe they brought Tallon back more for damage control and less because they actually like him.

 

[Acadmus]

This franchise loves to suck early on. The team can't get enough of it. They thrive on it (or at least apparently enjoy it enough to suck. Every. Damn. Year.)

On this note, I've long held the real reason for it is the fact that, year after year, the Panthers play amongst the fewest games in October of any team in the league, and tend to have too many long stretches between games. I get a free preview of Center Ice at the start of each season, and it lasts around 2 weeks. Year after year the most Panthers games I get to watch during this preview is 3. October ended and the Panthers played 9 games...every other team in the division has played 11 or 12. New Jersey is the only other team in the league to play just 9 games, and they'll undoubtedly move ahead of the Panthers thanks to this Finland trip that has them playing back to back, but those two games are the only 2 games they play in a 10-day stretch. Too much time to stew over a loss, and too much time to carry any momentum after a win. And it's been the same for this franchise every year I've been a fan it seems, which is a span of 22 years now (well, 21 plus the prior year's run to the Finals).

Anyway, looking some things over, and it's the defense and bottom-6 forwards killing the team as much as the goaltending. Through 9 games played, the top-6 forwards have accounted for 18 goals and 47 points, or 5.22ppg and 2gpg, and every one of them has at least 4 points. The bottom-6, which is actually 7 players, have just 18 points with 6 goals in those 9 games, or 2ppg and .5gpg with 2 players having contributed nothing. The defense has contributed just 2 goals and 17 points in 9 games, and Yandle accounts for fully half of it, 1g and 8a. The other 6 defensemen that have played this season have contributed just 1 goal and 8 assists (they all have at least 1 point). So the bottom-6 and all the defensemen combined have contributed LESS THAN HALF of all points and only about a third of all goals this season. They aren't carrying their weight yet as we know they're capable of much more than this. Yandle's doing what's expected, but no one else really is.

That said, the low shots against means the team as a whole is doing a decent job defensively, and goaltending is a gaping hole. And again, we know Reimer is capable of more (why the hell didn't Tallon keep Sateri?), but really sucks in one-on-one situations against shooters. Tallon really needs to find SOME kind of solution to this problem.

 

[Acadmus]

So, in short, everything.

Heya, Clint - long time no chat LOL

 

[Acadmus]

Goaltending has sucked bad, but I don't think you can say we've had great defense it overall play either. There have been lots of breakdowns and at times the pdo may be in our favor but it sure doesn't look like it should be. We've had some good stretches, but no way I would say we've been playing well.

Maybe the guys are too tense with reimer and hutch in net, I don't know. Good teams find a way to win even if a key piece is missing. We have not figured out how to do that. There are other teams that have comparable goalies (based on historical performance, not this season) but have had better starts - canes, sabres, devils, isles, canucks. I'm not saying these are good teams, but they don't have great goaltending either and are doing better. It's not an acceptable excuse to not even be at .500 with a supposedly really good roster.

We saw this problem last year with Reimer and Sateri...the team kept losing, until Sateri managed to steal one for them. Then they went on a little streak and stabilized before really pulling it together for their strong finish after the school shooting. What's needed is for Reimer or Hutchinson to somehow manage to find it in themselves to shut the door for a game or two, and the team will gain some confidence. Problem is, their performance has been so poor in relation to the rest of the team that one has to wonder if they're really capable of shutting that door. Goalies both really need to pick up their play this season, big time. Star forwards are ALL doing their jobs. Other forwards have been lackluster but serviceable. Other than Yandle, defense is limiting opportunities but not contributing to the attack, but even that would be good enough for an 8-1 record at this point except the goaltenders have just not gotten the job done at all.

Pretty bad when there's only one loss out of 7 this season you can point to anything other than goaltending being responsible.

 

[Haj]

At least let the season play out before firing everyone.

90% of the season left to go....

 

[Jakeybonz]

We saw this problem last year with Reimer and Sateri...the team kept losing, until Sateri managed to steal one for them. Then they went on a little streak and stabilized before really pulling it together for their strong finish after the school shooting. What's needed is for Reimer or Hutchinson to somehow manage to find it in themselves to shut the door for a game or two, and the team will gain some confidence. Problem is, their performance has been so poor in relation to the rest of the team that one has to wonder if they're really capable of shutting that door. Goalies both really need to pick up their play this season, big time. Star forwards are ALL doing their jobs. Other forwards have been lackluster but serviceable. Other than Yandle, defense is limiting opportunities but not contributing to the attack, but even that would be good enough for an 8-1 record at this point except the goaltenders have just not gotten the job done at all.

Pretty bad when there's only one loss out of 7 this season you can point to anything other than goaltending being responsible.

oh boy. not sure how much more I can take of people not blaming ekblad while singling out yandle. ek is crazily bad.

 

[Clint]

Heya, Clint - long time no chat LOL

New phone who dis?

 

[Clint]

oh boy. not sure how much more I can take of people not blaming ekblad while singling out yandle. ek is crazily bad.

Did you even read his post? He acknowledged, correctly, that Yandle has been the only one earning his pay on the back end.

 

[pantherbot]

On this note, I've long held the real reason for it is the fact that, year after year, the Panthers play amongst the fewest games in October of any team in the league, and tend to have too many long stretches between games. I get a free preview of Center Ice at the start of each season, and it lasts around 2 weeks. Year after year the most Panthers games I get to watch during this preview is 3. October ended and the Panthers played 9 games...every other team in the division has played 11 or 12. New Jersey is the only other team in the league to play just 9 games, and they'll undoubtedly move ahead of the Panthers thanks to this Finland trip that has them playing back to back, but those two games are the only 2 games they play in a 10-day stretch. Too much time to stew over a loss, and too much time to carry any momentum after a win. And it's been the same for this franchise every year I've been a fan it seems, which is a span of 22 years now (well, 21 plus the prior year's run to the Finals).

So true, and i think it's a safe bet that the Panthers asks for the schedule to be like this because they want more games during snowbird season and don't want to compete as much with baseball and football for attendance early on.

It's just another example of how this team ownership/management is more focused on the dollars than actual on ice performance. There are so many little examples of this that it's hard to ignore. Sure we're spending about league average on salary, but we try to nickel and dime on everything.

We saw this problem last year with Reimer and Sateri...the team kept losing, until Sateri managed to steal one for them. Then they went on a little streak and stabilized before really pulling it together for their strong finish after the school shooting. What's needed is for Reimer or Hutchinson to somehow manage to find it in themselves to shut the door for a game or two, and the team will gain some confidence. Problem is, their performance has been so poor in relation to the rest of the team that one has to wonder if they're really capable of shutting that door. Goalies both really need to pick up their play this season, big time. Star forwards are ALL doing their jobs. Other forwards have been lackluster but serviceable. Other than Yandle, defense is limiting opportunities but not contributing to the attack, but even that would be good enough for an 8-1 record at this point except the goaltenders have just not gotten the job done at all.

Pretty bad when there's only one loss out of 7 this season you can point to anything other than goaltending being responsible.

Yeah i don't disagree that goaltending hasn't been a problem. It's obviously an issue. But there are other teams that aren't that much different than us in goal and they are doing better. There will always be something that comes up, whether it's a goalie injury or something else. Good teams find a way to persevere and squeeze out a respectable record, we just aren't doing that. Other guys need to step up and the numbers you cited clearly show that's not happening.

 

[Clint]

Yeah i don't disagree that goaltending hasn't been a problem. It's obviously an issue.

It's the only issue. Every one of our top-6 forwards (except for Bjugstad, but that's to be expected) is producing between a 60 and 80 point pace for the season. They're getting the job done, and the good part about it is that players are stepping up when others are in a bit of a slump. Would we be doing better if Ekblad and Matheson were keeping pace with Yandle? Sure. But if Hutchinson and Reimer performed merely average our record would be at least middle of the pack. Instead, we're early bottom feeders again and must make up for it later in the season.

 

[Jakeybonz]

Did you even read his post? He acknowledged, correctly, that Yandle has been the only one earning his pay on the back end.

yea I did read his post. he said other than yandle, the defense is limiting the opportunities of the opposition, meaning yandle sucks on D.

 

[Clint]

yea I did read his post. he said other than yandle, the defense is limiting the opportunities of the opposition, meaning yandle sucks on D.

@Acadmus please clear this up for this guy.

 

[pantherbot]

It's the only issue. Every one of our top-6 forwards (except for Bjugstad, but that's to be expected) is producing between a 60 and 80 point pace for the season. They're getting the job done, and the good part about it is that players are stepping up when others are in a bit of a slump. Would we be doing better if Ekblad and Matheson were keeping pace with Yandle? Sure. But if Hutchinson and Reimer performed merely average our record would be at least middle of the pack. Instead, we're early bottom feeders again and must make up for it later in the season.

It's not the only issue. Our power play has been the worst in the league. We've been pushed around physically with little response. Key guys like ekblad and math aren't playing well. Our bottom 6 guys are contributing nothing offensively. We've been very inconsistent with effort between periods.

Yes goaltending sucks, but it's not the only issue. And even if it was the only issue, the guys need to step up. That's what good teams do.

 

[HockeyRulez]

I think Tallons love for “his guys” like Bjugy and Petro will be his downfall.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Fire him. Been his biggest supporter but this is embarrassing. Bon voyage!

 

[Haj]

At least let the season play out before firing everyone.

90% of the season left to go....

After watching the team play like the dumbest team in the hemisphere, Fire everybody.

 

[RainingRats]

I think there are plenty of legitimate reasons why we have started slow. Bad schedule for sure contributes some. Even if we were winning it would be hard to carry momentum over. But goaltending by far has let us down the most. We have the worst or second worst save % in the league. You're not going to win games with our goaltending.

I've never been a Tallon fan. However, this team is still close to being good but there are two roadblocks in the lineup that have to get better or we're going to have issues taking a step forward. The biggest disappointments to me are Ekblad and Matheson. Two huge Tallon pieces that don't come close to contributing to how we need them to. That's supposed to be a top pairing guy and a #4 at a minimum. When you consider both of their contracts together, they're a disaster. Those are two first round picks that look like relative failures and Matheson was signed way too early. Absolutely no reason to give Matheson that contract.

I can't believe people are still complaining about the offseason after we made the playoffs. We had PDO on our side and it's even more obvious now that mattered. We also had excellent goaltending. That entire core is still here and the forwards are even better.

One thing Tallon hasn't done well is add enough grit to the bottom 6 or D. I was only able to see portions of the game today and like many other, the other team plays more chippy than we do. They're hacking away, initiating after the whistle, going hard after our best players. We don't do that enough. We're easy to play against.

 

[FinlandPanther]

I think there are plenty of legitimate reasons why we have started slow. Bad schedule for sure contributes some. Even if we were winning it would be hard to carry momentum over. But goaltending by far has let us down the most. We have the worst or second worst save % in the league. You're not going to win games with our goaltending.

I've never been a Tallon fan. However, this team is still close to being good but there are two roadblocks in the lineup that have to get better or we're going to have issues taking a step forward. The biggest disappointments to me are Ekblad and Matheson. Two huge Tallon pieces that don't come close to contributing to how we need them to. That's supposed to be a top pairing guy and a #4 at a minimum. When you consider both of their contracts together, they're a disaster. Those are two first round picks that look like relative failures and Matheson was signed way too early. Absolutely no reason to give Matheson that contract.

I can't believe people are still complaining about the offseason after we made the playoffs. We had PDO on our side and it's even more obvious now that mattered. We also had excellent goaltending. That entire core is still here and the forwards are even better.

One thing Tallon hasn't done well is add enough grit to the bottom 6 or D. I was only able to see portions of the game today and like many other, the other team plays more chippy than we do. They're hacking away, initiating after the whistle, going hard after our best players. We don't do that enough. We're easy to play against.

Matheson has looked better the last couple games. Ekblad on the other hand looks like he should be paid 3.5 mil.

 

[RainingRats]

Matheson has looked better the last couple games. Ekblad on the other hand looks like he should be paid 3.5 mil.

Matheson cost us games earlier this year and was a mess to start the year last year but still got a huge contract despite being inconsistent. Relevant to the Tallon fire thread, imo. I think Matheson has the tools to be good but not sure he has the IQ