Talks May Need New Faces, Domi Says

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CGG

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Jan 6, 2005
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eye said:
Did you even bother to listen to Domi's interview with Landsberg? Did you hear him say that players views are not taken seriously in negotiations of this type? Just one example of what Domi said that pro PA posters like yourself refuse to acknowledge. Domi thought the players/owners had a workable deal until he sat down with Goodenow. Did you listen to that comment? Domi spoke volumes in a short interview and 90% of it was a slam against his PA boss. I really don't care about gloating or saying who is right or wrong but I'm not afraid to call spade a spade.

So everytime a single player or a small group of players comes up with some brilliant idea Bob is supposed to take that and run with it? Deal might have been great for Domi, but awful for everyone else, should Bob be forced to run with it because 1 or 9 players think its a good idea?

If Domi had the support of the majority, or even a bunch of the PA executives, if this was truly what the bulk of the players wanted and would agree to, then it would have gone through. Simple as that.
 

Hoss

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Feb 21, 2005
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Goodenow's job is to understand the legal ramifications of proposal's offered by both sides, and to negotiate the best deal possible as directed by the players through thier negotiating committee.

The players were polled before this process began to determine what they wanted out of negotiations, the committee and the head negotiator are given the power to reject proposals that do not meet the expectations. This is pretty common when negotiating for large groups, the committee has to decide whether the offer presented them meets enough of the criteria they were charged to negotiate for or they have to believe there is no opportunity for a better deal.

Though out the process the committee will report to it's membership on what was offered, why it was rejected or why the committee feels the membership should accept any offered deal. If the committee feels that an offer will be accepted by the majority they will call for a vote.

Does the committee have too much power? I doubt it. The membership can force a vote if enough of them feel the committee is not adequately representing them.
 

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gc2005 said:
I can guarantee you, the average hockey player has a much better understanding of the CBA and the issues involved than any poster on an internet message board.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Think about what you just wrote.

The AVERAGE hockey player has a MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING of the CBA than ANY poster.

Too freaking funny.

I'm not suggesting that the average player is dumb, but their educational backround and business experience is limited.

We have some highly intelligent, well-educated and experienced posters who represent both sides in this dispute posting on this board on a regular basis. To suggest the average player has a MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING than some of the posters here is simply laughable.

Domi's comments make it clear that the average player is viewed as not having the necessary expertise to understand the negotiation process by either the NHL or the PA leadership.

If you want to favourably compare the average player to the average poster, then you may have a case.
 

CGG

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Thunderstruck said:
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Think about what you just wrote.

The AVERAGE hockey player has a MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING of the CBA than ANY poster.

Too freaking funny.

I'm not suggesting that the average player is dumb, but their educational backround and business experience is limited.

We have some highly intelligent, well-educated and experienced posters who represent both sides in this dispute posting on this board on a regular basis. To suggest the average player has a MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING than some of the posters here is simply laughable.

Domi's comments make it clear that the average player is viewed as not having the necessary expertise to understand the negotiation process by either the NHL or the PA leadership.

If you want to favourably compare the average player to the average poster, then you may have a case.

You already suggested the average hockey player is dumb, no going back on that.

Think about this for a second, your average hockey player has signed contract(s) under a CBA, is forced into a labour stoppage so would probably want to know what's going on if he didn't already, has complete access to the negotiating team, the PA executive, Goodenow himself, a bunch of lawyers, and most importantly, his agent.

They would know the details inside out and backwards, along with having full information on league proposals, PA proposals, and what goes on in each and every meeting. If they didn't understand everything on their own, I'm sure their agents have filled them in on salary caps, arbitration, and what any proposal will mean to them and their situation.

There might be a few who don't care enough or won't invest enough time to fully understand absolutely everything, but I'm sure your average player knows a hell of a lot more than you or I. Or any other poster, for that matter. I have yet to see Bettman, Daly, Goodenow or Saskin or anyone else with that kind of insider info post anything on here yet. I'll give you Bob McKenzie, that's about it.
 

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gc2005 said:
You already suggested the average hockey player is dumb, no going back on that.
No, you incorrectly inferred that I assumed under-educated and inexperienced in business dealing meant that they are dumb. I'll assume you are intelligent enough to know the difference.

Think about this for a second, your average hockey player has signed contract(s) under a CBA, is forced into a labour stoppage so would probably want to know what's going on if he didn't already, has complete access to the negotiating team, the PA executive, Goodenow himself, a bunch of lawyers, and most importantly, his agent.
Agreed. They, if they care to avail themselves of the resources, have access to more information than most of the posters here. That doesn't mean they are being given accurate information. The propoganda coming from the PA side has been for player as well as public consumption.

They would know the details inside out and backwards, along with having full information on league proposals, PA proposals, and what goes on in each and every meeting. If they didn't understand everything on their own, I'm sure their agents have filled them in on salary caps, arbitration, and what any proposal will mean to them and their situation.

The fact that most were taken completely off-guard by the 24% rollback and flip-flop on the cap proves that the flow of information isn't as free as you are trying to suggest or that the players aren't taking advantage of the sources of information. Agents have not been being kept as informed as you suggest or their would have been little need to bring them to Toronto twice for the latest batch of koolaid.

There might be a few who don't care enough or won't invest enough time to fully understand absolutely everything, but I'm sure your average player knows a hell of a lot more than you or I. Or any other poster, for that matter. I have yet to see Bettman, Daly, Goodenow or Saskin or anyone else with that kind of insider info post anything on here yet. I'll give you Bob McKenzie, that's about it.

How about the agent "wetcoaster"?

Think he might understand things better than the average player?

What about cleduc?

Think the average player understands the legal ramification of the various issues better than cleduc does?
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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joepeps said:
Originally Posted by WC Handy
That is not true at all. The players have never once voted on any NHL proposal.
because they didn't have to.. it was turned down no one wanted to accept it...

no owner got to vote on one either.. does that mean it wouldn't pass????

No one knows if the players would have wanted to accept it.

BG and the PA executive committee can pretty much arbitrarily decide what does or does not get a PA vote - the vast majority of the PA are completely out of the loop (except for the PA communications that BG sends out).

You can bet your ass that all 30 owners are in the loop and have much more of an ability to influence GB's actions than the 700+ players do BG's.
 

eye

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around the 49th para
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gc2005 said:
So everytime a single player or a small group of players comes up with some brilliant idea Bob is supposed to take that and run with it? Deal might have been great for Domi, but awful for everyone else, should Bob be forced to run with it because 1 or 9 players think its a good idea?

If Domi had the support of the majority, or even a bunch of the PA executives, if this was truly what the bulk of the players wanted and would agree to, then it would have gone through. Simple as that.

I don't even know why I bother debating with anyone that has Ron Hainsey as his avatar. Domi had this meeting with Linden and Tananbaum and came out of this meeting feeling pretty good about things until Bob got wind of it. Linden and Domi found out very quickly that their views didn't matter to Bob.

Having said that I feel we are within days of an agreement in principle somewhere in the 25 floor - 35 ceiling with 100% luxury tax between 35-40 and 150% between 40-45 and 200% between 45-50.

If you go back 6 months there are more than just myself pretty much saying that the this would be the end result. The PA could have had this agreement back in December 2004. Bob's stubborn nature cost his clients hundreds of millions and worse than that caused the NHL to be the laughing stock of the professional sports industry.
 

PecaFan

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Nov 16, 2002
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kdb209 said:
BG and the PA executive committee can pretty much arbitrarily decide what does or does not get a PA vote - the vast majority of the PA are completely out of the loop (except for the PA communications that BG sends out).

And lets face it, in almost every case, the vast, vast majority of the actual union members vote simply based on the recommendation of the committee. Very few votes go against the recommendation.
 

CGG

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eye said:
I don't even know why I bother debating with anyone that has Ron Hainsey as his avatar. Domi had this meeting with Linden and Tananbaum and came out of this meeting feeling pretty good about things until Bob got wind of it. Linden and Domi found out very quickly that their views didn't matter to Bob.

What the hell does Ron Hainsey have to do with this? I can't believe I'm debating with a guy who calls himself "eye". There, that doesn't make any sense either. Feel better? Good.

Bob answers to the union, not the other way around. Linden is the president of the NHLPA, not Bob. If Linden, the executive, and a bunch of other players felt strongly about whatever was drawn up with Tananbaum, they would have told Bob to follow suit or stay the hell out of it. Clearly that wasn't the case. Maybe the league would have nothing to do with the proposal? After all, it wasn't Bettman or Daly or even a member of the negotiating committee they were talking to, it was Tananbaum, from the richest team in the world.
 

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gc2005 said:
What the hell does Ron Hainsey have to do with this? I can't believe I'm debating with a guy who calls himself "eye". There, that doesn't make any sense either. Feel better? Good.

Bob answers to the union, not the other way around. Linden is the president of the NHLPA, not Bob. If Linden, the executive, and a bunch of other players felt strongly about whatever was drawn up with Tananbaum, they would have told Bob to follow suit or stay the hell out of it. Clearly that wasn't the case. Maybe the league would have nothing to do with the proposal? After all, it wasn't Bettman or Daly or even a member of the negotiating committee they were talking to, it was Tananbaum, from the richest team in the world.

Actually it was Tanenbaum from the richest and Lemieux from one of the poorest.
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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slats432 said:
The problem with me suggesting what my deal would look like TM is that it would have been done before last season, so the whole landscape was different than it is now.

I probabably would have had a hard cap at $45-49 million, a franchise player waiver, rookie cap waiver once every three years, percentage of profit/growth to the players, UFA at 29, but who knows what kind of deal I would have got if I was smart enough last July to have 6 negotiating sessions in two weeks without looking for pressure points of my counterpart.

As someone in business, I personally look for the win-win, not...."What can I win." I also don't look at the other side as my adversary, but my partner. As time goes on, I would have easily recognized the disdain that the majority of fans have for my membership. I would have recognized in 2003 that my counterpart wasn't in a position to maintain any semblance of status quo. I would have recognized that the people that PAY THE BILLS can turn the tap off and close shop.

And here is the big one.....I would have recognized their willingness to do so.
I can certainly support your thought process here ... The key being this should have be happening last June not this June .. Pre-lockout pre-damage .. So on those grounds Goodenow is an idiot .. Lots of effort should have been made on both side before even 1 day of last season was interrupted ..

Whether you would have gotten such a deal we will never know .. The NHL was floating proposals of 31 and 35 million .. Far cry from your suggested deal ..

I agree though you deal would likely have gotten it done from a NHLPA point of view though and now the longer it goes them more the NHL squeezes and the harder it is to find common ground on certain issue alone because of the damage done to the industry..
 
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Mess

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Seems only yesterday that .....Domi calls NHL offer 'slap in the face'

Domi calls NHL offer 'slap in the face'
Canadian Press
12/15/2004 12:42:28 PM

BERN, Switzerland (CP) - Tough guy Tie Domi says the NHL's proposal to roll back the salaries of the highest-paid players is an affront to the sport's top attractions.

''The players are really insulted, especially the star players like (Sergei) Fedorov, (Martin) Brodeur and (Mats) Sundin,'' the Toronto Maple Leafs winger said Wednesday. ''These are the guys who are supposed to sell the game.

''It's a real slap in the face for these guys especially. They're really upset about it. They may not say that on camera, but they're really insulted, just like everybody else.''

Full Story : http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=108172
 
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