Talking the Avs Ep 10 - "Rampage Review"

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Lots of great Rampage talk with TV and Earl from MHH, who watch the Rampage a lot. Starts out with the systems the Rampage run, some Dean talk, then we move onto the big time players.

13:20 - Rantanen talk
25:07 - Zadorov talk
33:50 - Bigras talk
40:50 - Pickard talk
44:50 - Geertsen talk

Then rest of the guys, and I love bomb Everberg. I made sure to talk about Siemens and what the plan is for him.

Click to read more...

 

[tigervixxxen]

Earl was a great guest for us, added to the podcast immensely so I hope you guys check it out.

I was a little hard on Everberg, didn't really mean to be.

 

[AvsRobin]

Good job. Looking forward to listening and thanks for filling in for me.

 

[dahrougem2]

Earl was a great guest for us, added to the podcast immensely so I hope you guys check it out.

I was a little hard on Everberg, didn't really mean to be.

You're dead to us all

 

[S E P H]

It was a very intelligent podcast, a lot of good stuff in it, but some constructive criticism, it was kind of boring. All you guys sounded tired, but Earl knows his stuff.

Yeah Tigre, I agree about that. The questions are going to suck for the fans who normally follow the Avs and nothing else. I can't wait to hear about how we "lost" the Ryan O'Reilly trade.

Agreed with Earl about earning the ice time. Yip was good with Duchene, but that doesn't mean he was an NHL player.

I think the travel is more beneficial to the California teams, they will beat each other up, but normally have an hour journey back home. Rampage have to travel by Jet to go face those teams.

 

[tigervixxxen]

What in particular do you agree with?

Thought more conversational is less boring? Or more focused on players we've all heard about isn't really anything new? We didn't want to get into the minutiae of the roster because the average Avs fan doesn't care what Michael Schumacher is doing.

Somehow the Rampage even got a charter to Winnipeg today. That's better than the bus. Going from No Cal to So Cal isn't a short ride. But I think it's more familiarity breeds an even split, the more times opponents play eachother it lessens the advantage. So some of those teams play each other 10+ times I think it's going to be tough for any of them to play significantly above .500. Except a Ontario, they are just that good but even they lost a weekend to San Diego.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Great listen, glad I'm not the only one who has not given up on Duncan.

Thanks for bringing up the AHL/NHL offense thing TV, funny how that choked everyone up a little lol.

It's such a difficult question, I like the AHL for defensive development, but I don't like it nearly as much for offensive players.

You have guys like Kirk who go down there and do nothing, then come up to the NHL and never look back as well.


AHL scoring is like UFO footage, lol. It's exciting, some believe in it some don't, but you can almost never trust it.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Great listen, glad I'm not the only one who has not given up on Duncan.

Thanks for bringing up the AHL/NHL offense thing TV, funny how that choked everyone up a little lol.

It's such a difficult question, I like the AHL for defensive development, but I don't like it nearly as much for offensive players.

You have guys like Kirk who go down there and do nothing, then come up to the NHL and never look back as well.

Yes, glad you noticed it was your question. I should have found a more eloquent way to ask it. Perhaps it is a more important step for defensemen but we really haven't had many top end forwards there to judge what it does to their progress either.

I guess context and talent level just have to be taken into consideration. Shatternkirk wasn't there that long so its hard to say. I have found its tough especially for first year guys to generate much offense so what Rantanen and Bigras have done in that department very early on I'd say is pretty encouraging.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yes, glad you noticed it was your question. I should have found a more eloquent way to ask it. Perhaps it is a more important step for defensemen but we really haven't had many top end forwards there to judge what it does to their progress either.

I guess context and talent level just have to be taken into consideration. Shatternkirk wasn't there that long so its hard to say. I have found its tough especially for first year guys to generate much offense so what Rantanen and Bigras have done in that department very early on I'd say is pretty encouraging.

Yeah it's really encouraging when it comes to the young guys, but guys who are a little older and seem to develop into it at the AHL level can almost never duplicate it in the NHL to even a reasonable capacity.

I guess one phenom is Parenteau, but that highlights just how rare it is as well.

One interesting transfer for me is College to NHL, the college kids coming into the NHL usually seem very well adjusted, and can play bottom six roles at least fairly quickly.

Not many guys who break out as scoring stars, but some good middle of the roster type players come out of college.

Edit : I had heard that in College the players play less games, but get a hell of a lot more practice time in. Which is interesting as far as fundamental development.

 

[henchman21]

One interesting transfer for me is College to NHL, the college kids coming into the NHL usually seem very well adjusted, and can play bottom six roles at least fairly quickly.

Not many guys who break out as scoring stars, but some good middle of the roster type players come out of college.

A big part of that is the style of play. College hockey can be structured a lot like NHL hockey and requires a lot of the same styles out of their players. 2-3 years of college can do as much for a player as AHL time. IMO Compher will be as ready as somebody who played 2 years in the AHL next year.

Still listening, but it is a good so far. SA really needs some center depth... IMO it is really going to hurt that team for the next few months until a trade can be made.

The NHL/AHL scoring thing is something I believe is a skill set thing (goes into juniors as well). In any given AHL game, there isn't going to be much more (if any) than a NHL game. So the amount of points is still limited. I think a good example of this is a player's shot. It is easier in the AHL to beat a goalie on a pure shot, but about the same number of shots happen. So somebody like Agozzino or Smith who both have a good enough shots in the AHL to beat goalies, but it aren't good enough to be most NHL goalies. Compare that to Rantanen who has a NHL caliber shot and release. Given the same number of shots, they'd probably beat AHL goalies on about the same percentage (within a range of course). Rantanen's release though is something that can give him that split second edge on beating NHL goalies. I'd venture to guess Rantanen's shooting percentage would double or triple Agozzino and Smith's if they were all given similar shots. This goes all the little things as well. Bigras will produce in the NHL because he excels at make split second decisions and can make great passes with very little time to do so while others can't. The differences are minor, but huge at the same time.

 

[CobraAcesS]

A big part of that is the style of play. College hockey can be structured a lot like NHL hockey and requires a lot of the same styles out of their players. 2-3 years of college can do as much for a player as AHL time. IMO Compher will be as ready as somebody who played 2 years in the AHL next year.

Still listening, but it is a good so far. SA really needs some center depth... IMO it is really going to hurt that team for the next few months until a trade can be made.

That makes sense with College, I guess it's a longer route and not as popular as junior, but I get really excited about the guys coming out of College and turning pro.

 

[tigervixxxen]

That makes sense with College, I guess it's a longer route and not as popular as junior, but I get really excited about the guys coming out of College and turning pro.

Obviously they are older too. There's a big difference between a 19/20 year old and a 22/23 year old no matter what. The lighter schedule allows them to work out more while junior players can only really work out in the summer more like what pro players have to do. I'm not a huge fan of the NCAA system for reasons that I won't bore everyone with here but I also understand there isn't one perfect path and especially guys who need more time it's a good route.

Good point Hench about shots. Guys that score in the AHL like Smith, Street, Hishon, etc need to generate like 5+ shots a game to really be effective. When they aren't generating that you know the production won't be there that night. I also know Dean goes crazy when they are generating and don't hit the net which is a common problem too.

And yes the lack of centers is a big problem.

 

[CobraAcesS]

The NHL/AHL scoring thing is something I believe is a skill set thing (goes into juniors as well). In any given AHL game, there isn't going to be much more (if any) than a NHL game. So the amount of points is still limited. I think a good example of this is a player's shot. It is easier in the AHL to beat a goalie on a pure shot, but about the same number of shots happen. So somebody like Agozzino or Smith who both have a good enough shots in the AHL to beat goalies, but it aren't good enough to be most NHL goalies. Compare that to Rantanen who has a NHL caliber shot and release. Given the same number of shots, they'd probably beat AHL goalies on about the same percentage (within a range of course). Rantanen's release though is something that can give him that split second edge on beating NHL goalies. I'd venture to guess Rantanen's shooting percentage would double or triple Agozzino and Smith's if they were all given similar shots. This goes all the little things as well. Bigras will produce in the NHL because he excels at make split second decisions and can make great passes with very little time to do so while others can't. The differences are minor, but huge at the same time.

That's probably one of the best possible explanations I've seen.

 

[cgf]

Will comment in depth when I can re-listen but this made sitting in traffic today much more bearable. Good work again guys & gal!

 

[AvsRobin]

Doing a pod in a couple of hours. Just the latest Avs news talk.

Any questions/topics you wanna throw in? Shot.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Doing a pod in a couple of hours. Just the latest Avs news talk.

Any questions/topics you wanna throw in? Shot.

Maybe this was covered in the last one, but... (Don't remember)

I'm curious how Bigras is developing physically. The biggest factor keeping him from making the team out of camp a while ago was that he needed to grow physically to be able to handle NHL sized forwards better.

His brain seemed ready, his body wasn't.

I'd like to know if hes made noticeable progress in that department, because I think it would speak volumes as to how much of a real shot he has at making it either later this year, or out of camp next year.

The scary thought is that if he does not get strong enough physically, he could follow the same road as a player like Gormley.

Edit : Nvm, was thinking about the Rampage after reading through the thread again lol. I'll ask this in the AHL thread.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Doing a pod in a couple of hours. Just the latest Avs news talk.

Any questions/topics you wanna throw in? Shot.

You guys plan on talking about what the team might do leading up to the trade deadline?

Some really interesting directions they could go with the team, acquire another vet defender, possibly add another winger?

Maybe nothing this year regardless of how close we are to making the playoffs due to Barrie and MacKinnon's contracts.