Post-Game Talk: Talbezina

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The irony being Russell is even worse by the eye test than he is by the numbers but keep beating that dead horse.

 

[joestevens29]

Classic Talbot

I did like him more yesterday. Seemed to not get caught out of position as much and wasn't going down as quickly as usual either.

Although like someone mentioned on the broadcast he made the first few saves and some big ones and seemed dialed in right from the start.

 

[McDNicks17]

There's always going to be a group of people with a cursory understanding of advanced stats who look at a few columns in a spreadsheet and make a decision on a player.

Those are the people who don't like Russell and who give advanced stats a bad name.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I can't speak to last night's game as I didn't watch but I hated Russell's inability to make any breakout attempt except to ring it up the boards to the other team way before I read any advanced stats of his. I don't think it's that outrageous to dislike the player from the eye test alone.

And yes, I can admit he helps the team keep the puck out and steadies the game in our end. I just detest watching him play.

people hate him when he's playing yet the team misses him dearly when he's out of the line-up

is he overpaid? yes
is he signed too long? yes

but he's a fine #4-5 defenseman that's valuable to this Oiler team

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I did like him more yesterday. Seemed to not get caught out of position as much and wasn't going down as quickly as usual either.

Although like someone mentioned on the broadcast he made the first few saves and some big ones and seemed dialed in right from the start.

Talbot played his best game of the year last night...great to see

 

[Todd from Leduc]

2 points out of the wildcard boys. FRIG WOOOO!

 

[McDNicks17]

people hate him when he's playing yet the team misses him dearly when he's out of the line-up

is he overpaid? yes
is he signed too long? yes

but he's a fine #4-5 defenseman that's valuable to this Oiler team

I'd say he's been closer to a #3 for the team this season. Second best defenseman on the team right now, IMO.

I love Larsson, but he's just solid and plays up to the level of his partner.

Russell has shown he can be the guy and carry that second pairing.

 

[joestevens29]

Talbot played his best game of the year last night...great to see

I honestly wonder if guys just light him up in warmups thus killing his confidence before the game starts.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I'd say he's been closer to a #3 for the team this season. Second best defenseman on the team right now, IMO.

I love Larsson, but he's just solid and plays up to the level of his partner.

Russell has shown he can be the guy and carry that second pairing.

that says more about the overall defense than the player though

on a good defense, he's a #4 tops

IMO with Klefbom healthy, the Oilers are an "average" defensive team

 

[Aerrol]

people hate him when he's playing yet the team misses him dearly when he's out of the line-up

is he overpaid? yes
is he signed too long? yes

but he's a fine #4-5 defenseman that's valuable to this Oiler team

"And yes, I can admit he helps the team keep the puck out and steadies the game in our end. I just detest watching him play."

Is what I said, so yeah I agree. It's obvious the team needs him in the lineup. I just also happen to hate watching him play. Doesn't mean I want him off the team without a suitable replacement. It just bugs me to see people go "LOL ADVANCED STATS R DUM RUSSELL BEST NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY DISLIKE HIM BASED ON EYE TEST". Uh, what? Clearly you can.

 

[joestevens29]

that says more about the overall defense than the player though

on a good defense, he's a #4 tops

IMO with Klefbom healthy, the Oilers are an "average" defensive team

And that's with Klef, Nurse and Russell all playing at the top of their games

 

[oobga]

Tableau Public

Back in the mix after that game. Not out on our own island of suck. All hail Russell!

 

[MaxR11]

two reasons

1) There is a sheep mentality by some on this board and they fear being outcasts
2) Others think they understand fancy stats and Russell's so called fancy stats are some of the worst in the league--so they base their criticism on that and not on ice play

yup. absolutely hate fancy stats because of this. some people rely too much on fancy stats and have no clue what they see on the ice. or it at least biases what they see on the ice. i bet if there was no such thing as fancy stats, most of the people that criticize russell would probably be singing him praises. absolutely shows the sheep mentality of people nowadays.

by the eye test, russell was oustanding in 16-17. he took a step back last year and struggled a bit no doubt but the team around him was pretty unorganized and chaotic. this year he had definitely started to round into form and played better.

i wonder how much of it (his poor number... i'm not even sure which fancy stat ssome people are b**ch*** about) is due to the fact that he's such a battler and solid defender that some of the long sequences in the oilers zones that would have ended up in the back of the net in a short time with a different defender winds up being shut down by russell.... maybe the puck doesn't get cleared and the opposition has a lot of zone time but he stands his ground and "defends the line" so well it doesn't wind up in the net but his it makes his stats look worse.

what i see is a very smart defender who skates well and is mobile, has a good stick and is annoying as he77 for the opposing forwards to deal with. worth every penny of his 4 mil. helped settle guys like nurse sekera etc down. good locker room guy and solid quiet leadership. he and larsson were two of the big unsung reasons we made the playoffs in 2016-17. they allowed talbs to have a good season with solid and PREDICTABLE defence. makes a huge difference to tenders to have reliable and predictable d in front of them.

 

[Laodongxi]

2 points out of the wildcard boys. FRIG WOOOO!

 

[Little Fury]

Classic Talbot

Talbot's the goalie, Russell is the guy who is on his stomach all the time. Just thought I should clear that up for you.

 

[The Gnome]

So what is your guy's take on the McDavid cross check into the boards? I mean the initial puck battle was fine. But their was zero need to shove him in the back when he was in that vulnerable of a position. At the very least that warrants a boarding call. I feel like NHL reffing has only become worse in recent years, there is no consistency, and the ref was right there and had a clear view of the entire play. The whole preferential treatment of star players is not something I'm on board with, but a penalty is a penalty (or even a major imo). If that was a 4th line plug, it should still be a call.

 

[MaxR11]

I can't speak to last night's game as I didn't watch but I hated Russell's inability to make any breakout attempt except to ring it up the boards to the other team way before I read any advanced stats of his. I don't think it's that outrageous to dislike the player from the eye test alone.

And yes, I can admit he helps the team keep the puck out and steadies the game in our end. I just detest watching him play.

a lot of good players with good fancy stats make questionable plays. i think people focus on russells' questionable plays BECAUSE they knew of his fancy stats beforehand. if there was no fancy stats you'd glaze over it like you glaze over mistakes great players make like connor drew doughty etc etc. it's confirmation bias at it's best. and maybe russ makes the "safer" play that leads to less horrendous turnovers more often. none of us see the game at ice level where he's at... in the trenches.... you don't know what options he has? how do we know it's not his teammates not giving him good options?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Talbot's the goalie, Russell is the guy who is on his stomach all the time. Just thought I should clear that up for you.

and Talbot is chasing the Yote's player into the corner doing Russell's job

maybe they wanted a role-reversal for a shift?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

So what is your guy's take on the McDavid cross check into the boards? I mean the initial puck battle was fine. But their was zero need to shove him in the back when he was in that vulnerable of a position. At the very least that warrants a boarding call. I feel like NHL reffing has only become worse in recent years, there is no consistency, and the ref was right there and had a clear view of the entire play. The whole preferential treatment of star players is not something I'm on board with, but a penalty is a penalty (or even a major imo). If that was a 4th line plug, it should still be a call.

Agreed. No place for that in the league. The reffs got absolutely blasted today about that play.

 

[Little Fury]

yup. absolutely hate fancy stats because of this. some people rely too much on fancy stats and have no clue what they see on the ice. or it at least biases what they see on the ice. i bet if there was no such thing as fancy stats, most of the people that criticize russell would probably be singing him praises. absolutely shows the sheep mentality of people nowadays.

by the eye test, russell was oustanding in 16-17. he took a step back last year and struggled a bit no doubt but the team around him was pretty unorganized and chaotic. this year he had definitely started to round into form and played better.

i wonder how much of it (his poor number... i'm not even sure which fancy stat ssome people are b**ch*** about) is due to the fact that he's such a battler and solid defender that some of the long sequences in the oilers zones that would have ended up in the back of the net in a short time with a different defender winds up being shut down by russell.... maybe the puck doesn't get cleared and the opposition has a lot of zone time but he stands his ground and "defends the line" so well it doesn't wind up in the net but his it makes his stats look worse.

what i see is a very smart defender who skates well and is mobile, has a good stick and is annoying as he77 for the opposing forwards to deal with. worth every penny of his 4 mil. helped settle guys like nurse sekera etc down. good locker room guy and solid quiet leadership. he and larsson were two of the big unsung reasons we made the playoffs in 2016-17. they allowed talbs to have a good season with solid and PREDICTABLE defence. makes a huge difference to tenders to have reliable and predictable d in front of them.

Russell gives up zone entries virtually uncontested, loses battles along the boards and in front of the net on a regular basis, makes poor decisions and reads, and can't move the puck when he does get it beyond mindlessly banging it off the glass. He does block a lot of shots but that's a direct result of the opposition having the puck a ton when he's on the ice. None of that is fancy stats. He's a serviceable 5-6 D and the fact he is this team's 4th best D man is a big reason why the Oilers suck.

 

[Little Fury]

and Talbot is chasing the Yote's player into the corner doing Russell's job

maybe they wanted a role-reversal for a shift?

I should also point out that entire sequence started with Russell having the puck in the corner with time and space and brainlessly rifling it up the boards right to the other team.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

So what is your guy's take on the McDavid cross check into the boards? I mean the initial puck battle was fine. But their was zero need to shove him in the back when he was in that vulnerable of a position. At the very least that warrants a boarding call. I feel like NHL reffing has only become worse in recent years, there is no consistency, and the ref was right there and had a clear view of the entire play. The whole preferential treatment of star players is not something I'm on board with, but a penalty is a penalty (or even a major imo). If that was a 4th line plug, it should still be a call.

It's quite obvious that was at minimum 2 minutes.

But since the Oilers were up 3 or 4 goals, the refs put their whistles away as they always do. The opposite is true for the other team, they'll get a few powerplays, build a lead then the Oilers get a powerplay when the game is out of reach in garbage time. The refs must have had a chat with each other in the intermission because it happened again late in the 3rd, but this time there was a call.

We're used to it though, "California Reffing" is a real thing. As Tom Renney once said "I guess they need Hollywood in the playoffs".

 

[The Gnome]

It's quite obvious that was at minimum 2 minutes.

But since the Oilers were up 3 or 4 goals, the refs put their whistles away as they always do. The opposite is true for the other team, they'll get a few powerplays, build a lead then the Oilers get a powerplay when the game is out of reach in garbage time. They must have had a chat on the intermission because it happened again late in the 3rd and this time there was a call.

We're used to it though, "California Reffing" is a real thing. As Tom Renney once said "I guess they need Hollywood in the playoffs".

I try to be as objective as possible when looking at penalties, but as a fan it is hard when something doesn't go your way. I am no tinfoil hat guy, but I honestly feel that the Cali teams get massive support from officials. I've seen too many blatant non calls over the last 5+years. As a flames fan this year, I've seen my share of blatant whistle in the pocket non calls. But I've also truly been baffled by plays called on our opponents, or someone on our team getting away with a clear penalty. In a nutshell, I've seen a lot of pure garbage in the officiating department this year. If a die hard fan of a team like I am can see clear penalties not called on my own team...The NHL has a serious problem.

 

[oXo Cube]

I'll say it.

Hitchcock calling out the refs had the opposite effect of what he intended it to have.

 

[joestevens29]

Talbot's the goalie, Russell is the guy who is on his stomach all the time. Just thought I should clear that up for you.

Actually Russell going down is smart, he isn't screening the goalie