Player Discussion Tage Thompson 1

[jc17]

Having a good shot is nice, but for me that should be the cherry on top of the skill set.

This team has such problems generating offense that his shot won't even be used that much. Our forwards could have finished better but not once in the past 4 years have I thought that a lack of a good shot has been what is holding this team back.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Eichel seems to gel with bigger forwards with some skill: Tuch with the US junior teams, Nelson at the WCs. The start of his points run last season came when he was with Girgensons and Okposo.

I think Thompson was the target for this reason.

 

[Chainshot]

Having a good shot is nice, but for me that should be the cherry on top of the skill set.

This team has such problems generating offense that his shot won't even be used that much. Our forwards could have finished better but not once in the past 4 years have I thought that a lack of a good shot has been what is holding this team back.

In just an offensive zone view, the issue that they don't get to dangerous areas regularly with or without the puck is a far bigger issue than shooting ability. One of the interesting things to see is how Olofsson adapts to the smaller rink because he's got both the release and finesse at finding those soft spots in the defense in dangerous areas. Thompson had a bit of that in college from what I remember, but he was very much a PP shooting option who exploited seems in much the way we see someone like Stamkos, Ovie or even Jack bomb home shots from the top of the left circle.

 

[Brockon]

That can be said with every prospect we have fighting for ice time. Most NHL teams except for ours apparently put their rookies in the bottom 6 to give them better match-ups and get a feel for the game. You insulate them, testing to see if a kid is good by putting him on the top line playing 18 minutes a night is a good way to ruin his development. That's like throwing your child in the deep end with no floatation device and saying if they want to survive swim to the shore.

Its clear in St. Louis he wasn't even ready for the NHL even in a bottom 6 role as he got 9 points in 41 games.

If you want this kid to succeed he needs a lot of work and he can probably develop better on the top line in Rochester.

You speak about the bottom 6 for St Louis last year as if it was a scoring machine and somehow Tage was just never there... The Blues bottom 6 was underwhelming for large portions of last season because so many players were being forced up the lineup due to injuries.

Berglund - Schenn - Tarasenko
Steen - Stastny - Thompson
Paajarvi - Sundqvist - Sobotka
Upshall - Brodziak - Jaskin

Edmundson - Pietrangelo
Gunnarsson - Parayko
Dunn - Bortuzzo

Allen

STL bottom 6 scored
Paajarvi 12 pts in 79 games (44 w/ STL)
Sundqvist 5 pts in 42 games
Sobotka 31 pts in 81 games
Upshall 19 pts in 63 games
Brodziak 33 pts in 81 games
Jaskin 17 pts in 76 games

Considering Brodziak stepped up as our 2C after Stastny was traded and his numbers increased after the trade deadline accordingly, I feel that speaks volumes about the lack of quality linemates for Thompson while he played bottom 6 minutes. Especially when Sobotka played 2/3 line duties, leaving very little in terms of offensive firepower outside of the top 6.

Thompson's time in St Louis wasn't by choice, we (Blues) led the league in man games lost in the first portion of the season. Missing 2 top 6 guys in Schwartz and Fabbri as well as Berglund for a significant number of games. Then the blue line was missing players for portions of the season - that has a huge impact on the ability of a team to provide an insulated role to a young player to groom them.

Personally, I feel that Tage would have benefited immensely from an AHL season to develop - but St Louis didn't have their own AHL farm team to give Tage top 6 minutes in the AHL last season.

 

[Sabre the Win]

You speak about the bottom 6 for St Louis last year as if it was a scoring machine and somehow Tage was just never there... The Blues bottom 6 was underwhelming for large portions of last season because so many players were being forced up the lineup due to injuries.

Berglund - Schenn - Tarasenko
Steen - Stastny - Thompson
Paajarvi - Sundqvist - Sobotka
Upshall - Brodziak - Jaskin

Edmundson - Pietrangelo
Gunnarsson - Parayko
Dunn - Bortuzzo

Allen

STL bottom 6 scored
Paajarvi 12 pts in 79 games (44 w/ STL)
Sundqvist 5 pts in 42 games
Sobotka 31 pts in 81 games
Upshall 19 pts in 63 games
Brodziak 33 pts in 81 games
Jaskin 17 pts in 76 games

Considering Brodziak stepped up as our 2C after Stastny was traded and his numbers increased after the trade deadline accordingly, I feel that speaks volumes about the lack of quality linemates for Thompson while he played bottom 6 minutes. Especially when Sobotka played 2/3 line duties, leaving very little in terms of offensive firepower outside of the top 6.

Thompson's time in St Louis wasn't by choice, we (Blues) led the league in man games lost in the first portion of the season. Missing 2 top 6 guys in Schwartz and Fabbri as well as Berglund for a significant number of games. Then the blue line was missing players for portions of the season - that has a huge impact on the ability of a team to provide an insulated role to a young player to groom them.

Personally, I feel that Tage would have benefited immensely from an AHL season to develop - but St Louis didn't have their own AHL farm team to give Tage top 6 minutes in the AHL last season.

This is pretty much everything I already know, we already have tons of players who aren't good enough to carry a line or elevate players around them on a line so we can add Thompson to that list. That's what keeps him for being an A prospect but doesn't stop him from being a good B prospect which I see as a solid roleplayer.

I've also been saying he was forced into the NHL due to injuries, I know this, I also would rather see him in the AHL this year building repor and teamwork with the other potential kids coming up. This would allow him to get more minutes as well.

I know your situation and the type of prospect we got but just because he had bad linemates doesnt mean he deserves to be gifted a top 6 spot here like a few want. He got pushed into the NHL too early and couldn't exactly handle the work load. Nothing more to it.

At least it was an eye opener for him, he got early experience which not many get and now he knows what to expect. Hopefully he has the drive to build from that and succeed.

 

[Brockon]

@Sabre the Win

The only reason I state the above, is because in your previous post you say

"Its clear in St. Louis he wasn't even ready for the NHL even in a bottom 6 role as he got 9 points in 41 games."

But you don't really acknowledge just how poor the support he had in that bottom 6 capacity was. To solely judge his performance on the 9 points he had sells him short.

Thompson needs the ice time to flourish and become consistent, but he also needs a complimentary skilled player to work with - that's something he was not given much in St Louis as he was given a top 6 opportunity and soon after pushed down into the bottom 6 when he showed he wasn't ready for the minutes yet.

I believe that he needs the time in Rochester to finish adjusting to the much more rigorous play and pace of the pros, some more time to put on muscle and how to use it, while hopefully working with a skating coach for better explosiveness. Building team chemistry with potential future linemates is an added bonus, but not a necessary area of development.

My interest in TT becomes nostalgic - as he's not likely to wear the blue note again anytime soon. He's shown flashes, and for his sake I hope he finds the consistency to have a long productive career.

 

[Icicle]

“Tage, listen, I think he’s got potential,” said Corey Pronman, The Athletic‘s prospect guru. “I think he might be a second-line forward one day. He’s 6-foot-5, he’s got high-end puck skills, a high-end shot, makes plays. But he doesn’t play with pace, he takes shifts off here and there, and he’s got some room to develop. I think with Buffalo, he’ll be a potential second-line, third-line guy, play some power play. That’s what I see him topping out as.

 

[Doohickie]

With the Sabres level of depth I think he ends up on the second line with Mittelstadt and will have ample opportunity to show he belongs. I just hope he can take advantage of that opportunity.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Bigger, younger Jason Pominville. Years ago, I commented on here that Pominville had the worst 70 point season I'd ever seen in my life. Right now, 70 points would be a very welcome addition. I don't know that TT ever hits that total, but with his shot, I don't think a 30 goal season is out of the question. If he is the triggerman for Eichel or Mitts, he'll certainly have a lot of opportunities to fire the puck.

 

[Doohickie]

Bigger, younger Jason Pominville. Years ago, I commented on here that Pominville had the worst 70 point season I'd ever seen in my life. Right now, 70 points would be a very welcome addition. I don't know that TT ever hits that total, but with his shot, I don't think a 30 goal season is out of the question. If he is the triggerman for Eichel or Mitts, he'll certainly have a lot of opportunities to fire the puck.

I think that's exactly why JBot brought him in. Hopefully he lives up to the vision.

 

[valet]

Bigger, younger Jason Pominville. Years ago, I commented on here that Pominville had the worst 70 point season I'd ever seen in my life. Right now, 70 points would be a very welcome addition. I don't know that TT ever hits that total, but with his shot, I don't think a 30 goal season is out of the question. If he is the triggerman for Eichel or Mitts, he'll certainly have a lot of opportunities to fire the puck.

I had the same opinion about pommer back in those days. No idea how he was putting up those numbers, but he got the job done. I'd gladly take a 4 or so year run like that from Thompson when he's ready to break out.

 

[Moskau]

Years ago, I commented on here that Pominville had the worst 70 point season I'd ever seen in my life.

Maxim Afinogenov once scored 73 points by blindly throwing every puck that touched his stick to the front of the net.

 

[truthbluth]

Maxim Afinogenov once scored 73 points by blindly throwing every puck that touched his stick to the front of the net.

God that was such an improvement on the whole, skate the puck out of trouble, and then right back into trouble, and then out again, and then back in, then fall down. My wife always said Max was her favorite player because, "he reminds me of a puppy running on a linoleum floor."

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Maxim Afinogenov once scored 73 points by blindly throwing every puck that touched his stick to the front of the net.

I wouldn't mind a few guys on the roster who subscribed to that philosophy.

 

[truthbluth]

“Tage, listen, I think he’s got potential,” said Corey Pronman, The Athletic‘s prospect guru. “I think he might be a second-line forward one day. He’s 6-foot-5, he’s got high-end puck skills, a high-end shot, makes plays. But he doesn’t play with pace, he takes shifts off here and there, and he’s got some room to develop. I think with Buffalo, he’ll be a potential second-line, third-line guy, play some power play. That’s what I see him topping out as.

Corey is typically ok, and I still don't like the trade, but I disagree with his analysis of TT's weaknesses. He has them, I just think they are different ones.

I don't think Tage takes shifts off, and I get pretty tired of people equating foot speed with, "playing with pace." I've gone back through the few of his games this past season on NHL live, and I see something different from Corey. Being that I'm still super bitter about the trade, I'd like to think that I'm not just seeing what I want to see.

His ability to make quick and accurate passes and shots at speed tell me that his pace is fine. And I do believe that he's fully engaged when he's on the ice, he just doesn't fly around the ice. I think he is a patient player, like Samson, who tries to make reads and never skates himself out of the play. His defensive positional play is sound for a young player, and he is a hard worker in the D zone. Similar to Sam's first 40 games or so, his deficiency is primarily in his sense of urgency. While he's patient, he underestimates opponents closing speed, and/or overestimates his own hand speed. If/when it clicks that he has to be just a hair quicker, I believe he'll show a ton of improvement with the puck, similar to what Sam has done (the first half of last season notwithstanding). Also, he obviously needs to get stronger.

I think Tage is a heck of a prospect. He's not quite a 'top' prospect in that I think there's still a good chance that he doesn't improve in the way I described above, but after watching a few full games of his at the NHL with more of a focused eye, I feel like the prospect that I saw at UCONN and on national teams is still there, despite how dismal his stats (both traditional and fancy) were. That's why you gotta watch the games, as they say.

Addendum: I'm obviously no scout, and Corey surely knows more about hockey. My confidence in disagreeing with him is something that I chalk up to me not being responsible for knowledge of like, 500+ prospects, so I get to spend more time and be more careful in analysis. Corey probably doesn't have the time to assess the subtleties of a player's game and has to rely more on stats and first impressions. I would think that an approach like this would do a disservice to certain playing styles, TT's being a prime example.

 

[Icicle]

Corey is typically ok, and I still don't like the trade, but I disagree with his analysis of TT's weaknesses. He has them, I just think they are different ones.

I don't think Tage takes shifts off, and I get pretty tired of people equating foot speed with, "playing with pace." I've gone back through the few of his games this past season on NHL live, and I see something different from Corey. Being that I'm still super bitter about the trade, I'd like to think that I'm not just seeing what I want to see.

His ability to make quick and accurate passes and shots at speed tell me that his pace is fine. And I do believe that he's fully engaged when he's on the ice, he just doesn't fly around the ice. I think he is a patient player, like Samson, who tries to make reads and never skates himself out of the play. His defensive positional play is sound for a young player, and he is a hard worker in the D zone. Similar to Sam's first 40 games or so, his deficiency is primarily in his sense of urgency. While he's patient, he underestimates opponents closing speed, and/or overestimates his own hand speed. If/when it clicks that he has to be just a hair quicker, I believe he'll show a ton of improvement with the puck, similar to what Sam has done (the first half of last season notwithstanding). Also, he obviously needs to get stronger.

I think Tage is a heck of a prospect. He's not quite a 'top' prospect in that I think there's still a good chance that he doesn't improve in the way I described above, but after watching a few full games of his at the NHL with more of a focused eye, I feel like the prospect that I saw at UCONN and on national teams is still there, despite how dismal his stats (both traditional and fancy) were. That's why you gotta watch the games, as they say.

Addendum: I'm obviously no scout, and Corey surely knows more about hockey. My confidence in disagreeing with him is something that I chalk up to me not being responsible for knowledge of like, 500+ prospects, so I get to spend more time and be more careful in analysis. Corey probably doesn't have the time to assess the subtleties of a player's game and has to rely more on stats and first impressions. I would think that an approach like this would do a disservice to certain playing styles, TT's being a prime example.

If he stopped improving it'd be a concern. He was brought up by all accounts too early, but he improved on his second AHL stint, and his second NHL stint, all while getting junk minutes.

Nylander is getting ragged right now because he hasn't shown improvement - but he's really hard to judge with the injury setbacks.

 

[Dingo44]

Corey is typically ok, and I still don't like the trade, but I disagree with his analysis of TT's weaknesses. He has them, I just think they are different ones.

I don't think Tage takes shifts off, and I get pretty tired of people equating foot speed with, "playing with pace." I've gone back through the few of his games this past season on NHL live, and I see something different from Corey. Being that I'm still super bitter about the trade, I'd like to think that I'm not just seeing what I want to see.

His ability to make quick and accurate passes and shots at speed tell me that his pace is fine. And I do believe that he's fully engaged when he's on the ice, he just doesn't fly around the ice. I think he is a patient player, like Samson, who tries to make reads and never skates himself out of the play. His defensive positional play is sound for a young player, and he is a hard worker in the D zone. Similar to Sam's first 40 games or so, his deficiency is primarily in his sense of urgency. While he's patient, he underestimates opponents closing speed, and/or overestimates his own hand speed. If/when it clicks that he has to be just a hair quicker, I believe he'll show a ton of improvement with the puck, similar to what Sam has done (the first half of last season notwithstanding). Also, he obviously needs to get stronger.

I think Tage is a heck of a prospect. He's not quite a 'top' prospect in that I think there's still a good chance that he doesn't improve in the way I described above, but after watching a few full games of his at the NHL with more of a focused eye, I feel like the prospect that I saw at UCONN and on national teams is still there, despite how dismal his stats (both traditional and fancy) were. That's why you gotta watch the games, as they say.

Addendum: I'm obviously no scout, and Corey surely knows more about hockey. My confidence in disagreeing with him is something that I chalk up to me not being responsible for knowledge of like, 500+ prospects, so I get to spend more time and be more careful in analysis. Corey probably doesn't have the time to assess the subtleties of a player's game and has to rely more on stats and first impressions. I would think that an approach like this would do a disservice to certain playing styles, TT's being a prime example.

Do you think some of those "urgency" deficiencies can be helped as he plays more at the NHL level? One of the biggest differences between leagues is in how fast the game is played and getting used to having less time to make a decision with the puck.

 

[truthbluth]

Do you think some of those "urgency" deficiencies can be helped as he plays more at the NHL level? One of the biggest differences between leagues is in how fast the game is played and getting used to having less time to make a decision with the puck.

I mean, it obviously improved for Sam, but then again, Not so much for Grigorenko. I think the key difference with Tage (vs MG), is that you can see the good idea he had, e.g. the clever pass he was trying, or the move to get an open shooting lane), but the execution fails because somebody closes on him. So I don’t know. Better than %50 chance he improves? Less than %75? Wow, how did all these numbers get up my ***? I had no idea they were there when I pulled them out, I promise.

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Bigger, younger Jason Pominville. Years ago, I commented on here that Pominville had the worst 70 point season I'd ever seen in my life. Right now, 70 points would be a very welcome addition. I don't know that TT ever hits that total, but with his shot, I don't think a 30 goal season is out of the question. If he is the triggerman for Eichel or Mitts, he'll certainly have a lot of opportunities to fire the puck.

That would be awesome! We can only hope.

 

[Dingo44]

I mean, it obviously improved for Sam, but then again, Not so much for Grigorenko. I think the key difference with Tage (vs MG), is that you can see the good idea he had, e.g. the clever pass he was trying, or the move to get an open shooting lane), but the execution fails because somebody closes on him. So I don’t know. Better than %50 chance he improves? Less than %75? Wow, how did all these numbers get up my ***? I had no idea they were there when I pulled them out, I promise.

Well the word seems to be he improved from when he got thrown into the fire so he seems to be trending in the right direction. Can't give you a percentage, though...

 

[brian_griffin]

This is pretty much everything I already know, we already have tons of players who aren't good enough to carry a line or elevate players around them on a line so we can add Thompson to that list. That's what keeps him for being an A prospect but doesn't stop him from being a good B prospect which I see as a solid roleplayer.

I've also been saying he was forced into the NHL due to injuries, I know this, I also would rather see him in the AHL this year building repor and teamwork with the other potential kids coming up. This would allow him to get more minutes as well.

I know your situation and the type of prospect we got but just because he had bad linemates doesnt mean he deserves to be gifted a top 6 spot here like a few want. He got pushed into the NHL too early and couldn't exactly handle the work load. Nothing more to it.

At least it was an eye opener for him, he got early experience which not many get and now he knows what to expect. Hopefully he has the drive to build from that and succeed.

I hated the trade, agree TT's a B prospect, agree no top-6 spots should be gifted, and agree he should play (a year) in Rochester unless it's unanimously clear from camp he deserves to be up in the NHL.

That said, you're perhaps dismissive of 9 pts in 41 games, regardless of whether they were scored with a Blues team that was abundantly better than the Sabres, and regardless of quality of linemates. Compared to the following Sabres last season, 9 pts in 41 games is:
On par with: Pouliot, Larsson, Girgensons, Baptiste.
Slightly worse than Wilson.
Better than: Nolan, Griffith, Josefsson.
Yes, none of those players are world-beaters, and the underlined half of them won't be back this season. Even if TT is not on BUF at all this season, it's likely one or more of the players who replace the underlined are similarly going to have a full or projected ~20 point season.

In addition to TT's shot, if he can use his body size to shield the puck, like Dainius Zubrus or Artem Anisimov, (instead of being a road grader like Scott Hartnell), then he'll be useful (eventually) to Buffalo.

Lastly, perhaps a random unrelated comment, but the first goal TT scores with BUF will be one more than Ville Leino scored in his 58 games with BUF in 2013-14.

@Sabre the Win

The only reason I state the above, is because in your previous post you say

"Its clear in St. Louis he wasn't even ready for the NHL even in a bottom 6 role as he got 9 points in 41 games."

But you don't really acknowledge just how poor the support he had in that bottom 6 capacity was. To solely judge his performance on the 9 points he had sells him short.

Thompson needs the ice time to flourish and become consistent, but he also needs a complimentary skilled player to work with - that's something he was not given much in St Louis as he was given a top 6 opportunity and soon after pushed down into the bottom 6 when he showed he wasn't ready for the minutes yet.

I believe that he needs the time in Rochester to finish adjusting to the much more rigorous play and pace of the pros, some more time to put on muscle and how to use it, while hopefully working with a skating coach for better explosiveness. Building team chemistry with potential future linemates is an added bonus, but not a necessary area of development.

My interest in TT becomes nostalgic - as he's not likely to wear the blue note again anytime soon. He's shown flashes, and for his sake I hope he finds the consistency to have a long productive career.

Thanks for the time and insights you provided.

God that was such an improvement on the whole, skate the puck out of trouble, and then right back into trouble, and then out again, and then back in, then fall down. My wife always said Max was her favorite player because, "he reminds me of a puppy running on a linoleum floor."

I laughed. thanks

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[jc17]

His "ya know"/60 aren't quite at Boeser's level but he's got time to develop

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Earn it Tage. Prove you deserve top 6 minutes.