Systematic issues that have plagued this team for the last 3 seasons

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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I may be alone in this but I think the way our guys deal with those physical teams is very underrated.
That’s a great start but it’s more than just physical as well. It’s the desire to not stop or roll over and a team of 20 plus acting as 1.
remain to be seen. Fortitude both mental and physical as well. Lots of teams have had elite and gone nowhere.

Its like the moment when individuals become a well oiled machine and everyone is doing the same thing.
 
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IPS

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Sep 28, 2017
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That’s a great start but it’s more than just physical as well. It’s the desire to not stop or roll over and a team of 20 plus acting as 1.
remain to be seen. Fortitude both mental and physical as well. Lots of teams have had elite and gone nowhere.

Its like the moment when individuals become a well oiled machine and everyone is doing the same thing.

Are you referring to things like those game 7's vs Boston?

The team performs fine up until Freddy lets in those momentum-shifting softies that mentally drain the team. The team fights back only to see Freddy let in yet another one.

Not to repeat my reasoning again but I think this group is mentally stronger than people think.
 

IPS

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Sep 28, 2017
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What I see is lot of our fanbase watching a team like St. Louis and thinking "yep, that's exactly what the Leafs are lacking" and not realizing that they're watching it with a very strong confirmation bias. St. Louis was utterly dominated (even worse than us) for long stretches in the cup finals but Binnington was right there to make the big saves when they needed it. There were points in those games where they were getting physically outworked a lot worse than us.

Don't expect perfection folks, every team has their flaws and you can't have it all.
 
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Rare Jewel

Patience
Jan 11, 2007
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Point 1. - I agree with. 2. I'll have to watch for more closely.

3. however, while I'm not sure I agree, the rational is to compact space in slot/high danger area. So while you give the point up, you're likely only conceding a low percentage shot that can be stopped or even blocked and transitioned.

The issue though comes when a shot gets through to the goalie, is not controlled and the opposing teams puts bodies to the net. Not unlike what Montreal did with a couple of their goals.

4. Marincin is fine on the PK IMO.
 

Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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It is not learning to win but hating to lose so much that you are willing to do what ever it takes to not lose again that we need.

One in the same, but fully agree.

Some of our guys will learn, and become warriors, some need to be moved on from... I can't even tell you, which of our guys will fall into the right side category.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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One in the same, but fully agree.

Some of our guys will learn, and become warriors, some need to be moved on from... I can't even tell you, which of our guys will fall into the right side category.

Sometimes you get the feeling like the core is either too young or too privileged in the hockey world to be considered "warriors." We still see too much of the stick checks, flybys. When you're watching a Western Conference playoff game there's a level of desperation that our guys don't understand. They still want to win via dangle snipe, tic tac toe.
 

Legendary

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Sep 1, 2016
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We haven't had a good defensive team since Pat Burns was here. Not sure why we can't get that right.
Defense doesn’t make money. The drooling masses want high octane offence at all times! At least thats what MLSE believes.
 

Deuce Awesome

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Feb 23, 2010
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It is not learning to win but hating to lose so much that you are willing to do what ever it takes to not lose again that we need.

I see this in Mathews. I think it will become more noticeable as he matures.

I know saying anything negative about Sundin here is frowned upon, he was a great player, but to me he lacked that hate of losing. It always bugged me.
 
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The Apologist

Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Oct 16, 2007
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trying to protect a lead in the 3rd period. we suck at sitting back.

this is when we should be applyin more pressure in there end.

keep a dman back at center .

we have never been any good when we aren't skating at full speed.
This and so much this. When we're up we stop skating and try to protect the lead. We are not built for that at all.
 
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54thecup

keep on rockin the free world!
Aug 3, 2017
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Bruins load management of Rask last year likely a main reason they ended up in the Stanley Cup final and also a factor in why Leafs were out in round #1.

Boston did exactly for Rask what I'm suggesting Leafs might need to emulate for Freddy if they have playoff ambitions beyond round #1 and to manage how much Andersen has left and is fresh when the playoffs begin.

Systemically it means playing your backup more in the regular season.

The Bruins last year and Washington the year before have a few things in common:

Their vet goalies struggled in the season they went to the cup.

Management had a backup in place to take on the load .


Boston's planning for this by signing Halak looks genius in retrospect. Rask was their MVP in the playoffs last year imo.

Currently TB 's third goalie is better / more proven than our 2nd. Halak was great in his first start already.

This is on Dubas if they believe in load management.

I personally think the sport science group has info that is essential to this decision.

Either way, its our most obvious hole, we should at least have a 3rd goalie in the mix if they've learnt anything from last year!
 

Zybalto

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Dec 28, 2012
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Bruins load management of Rask last year likely a main reason they ended up in the Stanley Cup final and also a factor in why Leafs were out in round #1.

Boston did exactly for Rask what I'm suggesting Leafs might need to emulate for Freddy if they have playoff ambitions beyond round #1 and to manage how much Andersen has left and is fresh when the playoffs begin.

Systemically it means playing your backup more in the regular season.

I'm not sure Boston was resting Rask as much as he was playing poorly at many times through the year and was outplayed by his backup, the same of which couldn't be said of Anderson.

Rask just got hot at the right time for the Bruins and Anderson wasnt really that bad either, in fact you could make a case that they were both in the handful of keepers who were the best in the first round....Anderson just faltered in the deciding game.

To me, Anderson seems to play better with a higher workload which is why he's so off in October and after layoffs but maybe there is something to it I'm not seeing other than occasional bad stretches all keepers go through.

Gotta find that capable backup first though.
 
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Duffman955

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Mar 4, 2010
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I really think this is Babcocks prove it or lose it year for his job. He better find a way to get this team deep in the playoffs or hes done

We still fail from the same issues evry year. Either the GM or coach (preferably both) need to take the fall if we fail this year.
 

hobarth

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Jul 10, 2011
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I think TO's biggest problem systematically is the same now as it has been for many years, TO overpays it's players and that results in an inability to properly fill out a roster.
 
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darrylsittler27

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Oct 21, 2002
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Gimme a break, this is not built to win in the playoffs. They are in deep denial trying to prove the snowflake theory works. It took Washington 20 years to figure it out. They had flash offense and skill to spare but until they added some grit,, de nada. Dubad is too young to run a team and never played hockey.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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I think TO's biggest problem systematically is the same now as it has been for many years, TO overpays it's players and that results in an inability to properly fill out a roster.
We are a top heavy team due to salary which puts a lot of pressure on the top if the middle can’t support.

which is why guys like Hyman/etc take the heat because people want them putting up 50/60 + points as well.

The team should be built to win 1-0 and then you add Matthews/JT/Nylander/Marner. But it’s not.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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We are a top heavy team due to salary which puts a lot of pressure on the top if the middle can’t support.

which is why guys like Hyman/etc take the heat because people want them putting up 50/60 + points as well.

The team should be built to win 1-0 and then you add Matthews/JT/Nylander/Marner. But it’s not.

I often notice there's a Nylander vs Marner, or a Matthews/Nylander vs Tavares/Marner undertone to the debates on here, and I think the inevitable conclusion here is we turn the Big 4 into the Big 3 as a correction to investing too heavily in the forward group.

Matthews is the best of the bunch. Tavares is the captain. Nylander is the cheapest. Marner scores the most points.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
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I often notice there's a Nylander vs Marner, or a Matthews/Nylander vs Tavares/Marner undertone to the debates on here, and I think the inevitable conclusion here is we turn the Big 4 into the Big 3 as a correction to investing too heavily in the forward group.

Matthews is the best of the bunch. Tavares is the captain. Nylander is the cheapest. Marner scores the most points.

Marner will absolutely be the one to go and I don't think it's going to be very far off. Under 3 years for sure.
 
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Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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See and I think the PK is the most brainless part of hockey. You stand in a predetermined spot and play reactively. Put your stick in the lanes. If you get the puck, shoot it the other way as hard as you can. Not exactly cerebral stuff.
umm what???

playing the PK is the toughest time on ice bar none.

anyone with half a brain knows this.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
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A collection of some great players doesn't make a great team.
Wayne Gretzky said it best and it still applies today even if you love to dismiss "physical" or "heavy" hockey in the 21st century.

Gretzky and Messier both admitted they were impacted by walking past the Islanders dressing room after Game 4 to see the four-time defending champs sitting with ice bags, rather than engaging in a wild championship celebration. In their minds, they were made aware that more sacrifice would be needed to climb the final rungs to a title.

You need the right collection of players that find the "it" factor. Until you find it, you can be pretty in 82 games. Even Yzerman didn't do it alone. In addition guys like Fetisov/Konstantinov/McCarty/Draper/etc. all played huge rolls. I'd rather a team of 20 very good skilled hard working players than 2 or 3 passive high skilled players.

Killer instinct.
we don't make any player in the league "hear footsteps" and that's a really bad thing.

last nights game, count how many times leafs fell down/got knocked over , how many times we did not "finish a check/make them pay"

it needs to be a team wide ethos , can't be just a couple of players sacrificed their bodies , those few will stop doing it after awhile, if all the "pretty boys are going home with no sacrifice made".
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
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I really think this is Babcocks prove it or lose it year for his job. He better find a way to get this team deep in the playoffs or hes done

We still fail from the same issues evry year. Either the GM or coach (preferably both) need to take the fall if we fail this year.

this roster is not built to win in the POs, you know it and I know it.

but ya, lets fire a coach for not getting blood from a stone.
 

crump

~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
Feb 26, 2004
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Ontariariario
I don’t know if it’s systemic, or bad decisions, but I cringe every time I see a D-man chasing the play back into our own end.
 

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