Systematic issues that have plagued this team for the last 3 seasons

StatsNightHeroes

Registered User
Jan 15, 2016
365
103
I for one am not a fan of Babcock, but more concerning is his lack of desire to change or adapt.

1) zone entries are atrocious on the PP this constant skate to red line then drop pass to trailing player is over it worked the one year and every team figured out how to defend it yet the Leafs continue to use it

2) Giving up the blue line in the offensive zone, defence leaves zone far to early and thus we lose possession more times then necessary

3) Giving the opposing team our blue line all the time, our wingers drop far too deep giving up the points far too often

4) usage of our PK d pairings, PK requires IQ not size it blows my mind at guys like Marincin even get a minute on the PK, the ability to read a play and get the puck out is how you kill penalties

Just my 2 cents

1) I think the drop back can be effective but I’d like to see Rielly keep it or even chip and chase more often to keep the other team honest. He can afford to take chances since he has the 2 guys waiting for the drop pass backing him up. I think they will have more success with their entries if he keeps it more often.

2) As another poster mentioned, the leafs D pinch down the half wall regularly. The days of D standing flat footed at the blue line trying to make a play on a guy exiting the zone are over.

3) I agree the Leafs need to play tighter at the blue line in the D zone. The D aren’t very physical but they all skate well enough to keep the opponents on the outside. Let them cycle it around the outside all they want and take the points away. Too much chaos in front of the net on the point shots and trouble winning puck battles for the rebounds.

4) The PK hasn’t bothered me. I just hope they can make adjustments come playoff time because Boston has repeatedly lured guys out of the middle of the ice to open up the house and create 2 on 1 down low. In my opinion this is the biggest reason we’ve lost the last 2 series.

Overall, I think the system and team look good so far. Just need a little more production from the PP and to eliminate some defensive brain cramps and stupid penalties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eric bungay

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
77,848
51,514
Washington Pittsburgh and St Louis all had an edge to their game where they refused to shy away or back down from being hit or getting hit.

There's an ongoing analytics fantasy that supposes hockey has evolved into this uber skill game where all those old fashioned notions of grit, toughness only exist in the bad old Burke Carlyle days, and that goodness we play our skilled, skating, puck possession game, but if you actually watched the Western Conference contenders you'd realize that teams are as big, tough, gritty as ever and none of those things ever went out of fashion.

When you watch those San Jose vs St. Louis playoff series or Vegas vs San Jose series, you'll notice teams play fast. They move the puck around at a high rate and the important thing is they take the hit to make the right play.

When they don't have the puck they'll run though the boards to take the puck carrier out to create loose pucks and make it hell to have the puck in a way that a swarm of stick checks don't. They chip and chase, the dump and chase, the cycle, they carry the puck through the blue line, they stretch pass. Really just anything to advance the puck.

They're not playing particularly fancy high skill hockey but there's a ton of skill in executing at a quick rate under a lot of pressure. Toronto management needs to stop pretending those grit elements of the game don't exist anymore. They've already figured out the harder part of building the skill. They just need to round things out.
 

7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
18,569
14,126
North Carolina
See and I think the PK is the most brainless part of hockey. You stand in a predetermined spot and play reactively. Put your stick in the lanes. If you get the puck, shoot it the other way as hard as you can. Not exactly cerebral stuff.
 

Mickey Marner

Registered User
Jul 9, 2014
19,224
20,753
Dystopia
IDK if much of this stuff applies to 2019-20.

1) Montreal forechecked us, it happens, we should've made in-game adjustments. Michael is an arrogant dinosaur who pawns off blame, such is life.

2) I've seen both Barrie and Muzzin pinch at the same time on the same shift, which is horrifying. Relative to the league we're well above average at holding the line.

3) So far our biggest rotation issue this season has been Ceci abandoning the net-front. Our wingers can't play high if our defensemen are out of position.

4) Previously, my biggest beefs with our PK were not replacing Komorov & not using any centers. We at least use centers now and our half-board triangles generate turnovers.
 

LeafsOHLRangers98

Registered User
Jun 13, 2017
6,572
6,718
For me the biggest one is the inability to break out of the right side, especially against the Bruins. They feasted on Rielly and Gardiner because they knew Hainsey and Zaitsev couldn't break the puck out and they pinched on them hard.

Hopefully Barrie and Ceci can at least be half decent come playoff time.
 

BodaciousBeefBazooka

Go Leafs Go
Apr 4, 2013
3,717
1,317
Toronto
We just give the opposition too much time and space. With the speed of this team, I'd like to see an aggressive PK
Thats the thing. Its a contradiction. They have speed but quite frankly they are lazy slackers so there wont be that 'aggressiveness' any time soon you are alluding to.
 

TheGroceryStick

Registered User
Jan 19, 2009
13,681
3,309
Ontario Canada
I dont mind the drop pass on the PP. If it's one of many options... but it seems like it is literally the only thing we do.

Similar to last year...the PP was frustrating because we were too predictable. Our game has to be a team that exploits cheating teams. ...its what a good team does

If they overload on matthews we kill them somewhere else.... to the point that they are always trying to match us, not beat us
 

DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
31,304
47,699
We were actually the best team in the entire league at doing this last year if memory serves?
Oh geez, there goes one whinefest, best find another.

We're a good team, the negative nellies on here will be wrong more often than not, per usual.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
A lot of younger players, playing key roles, just learning the all round game.

Take a look at Steve Yzerman. It took him almost a decade of play in the NHL, to become the completely rounded player he became. I sure hope it takes our core less, but it can take some of these guys quite some time to become great defensively.

A collection of some great players doesn't make a great team.
Wayne Gretzky said it best and it still applies today even if you love to dismiss "physical" or "heavy" hockey in the 21st century.

Gretzky and Messier both admitted they were impacted by walking past the Islanders dressing room after Game 4 to see the four-time defending champs sitting with ice bags, rather than engaging in a wild championship celebration. In their minds, they were made aware that more sacrifice would be needed to climb the final rungs to a title.

You need the right collection of players that find the "it" factor. Until you find it, you can be pretty in 82 games. Even Yzerman didn't do it alone. In addition guys like Fetisov/Konstantinov/McCarty/Draper/etc. all played huge rolls. I'd rather a team of 20 very good skilled hard working players than 2 or 3 passive high skilled players.

Killer instinct.
 
  • Like
Reactions: moon111 and ToneDog

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
23,342
21,360
Richmond Hill, ON
A collection of some great players doesn't make a great team.
Wayne Gretzky said it best and it still applies today even if you love to dismiss "physical" or "heavy" hockey in the 21st century.

Gretzky and Messier both admitted they were impacted by walking past the Islanders dressing room after Game 4 to see the four-time defending champs sitting with ice bags, rather than engaging in a wild championship celebration. In their minds, they were made aware that more sacrifice would be needed to climb the final rungs to a title.

You need the right collection of players that find the "it" factor. Until you find it, you can be pretty in 82 games. Even Yzerman didn't do it alone. In addition guys like Fetisov/Konstantinov/McCarty/Draper/etc. all played huge rolls. I'd rather a team of 20 very good skilled hard working players than 2 or 3 passive high skilled players.

Killer instinct.

They played a fantastic first period against the Blues but did not score and eventually lost because Freddy gave up a couple of questionable goals. Which players on this team have that Killer instinct ?
 

Blue Nate

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
415
378
St Catharines
At this point its mentality and maturity. No, you don't need to fight or out hit or get into it after every whistle. Its willpower and determination. As much as Babcock annoys me he is right in using the Raptors win and the way Kawhi's demeanor and will contributed to the championship.

Toughness is mental first, physical second.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
They played a fantastic first period against the Blues but did not score and eventually lost because Freddy gave up a couple of questionable goals. Which players on this team have that Killer instinct ?
I don’t want to discount the way they played. That’s what you need to do. Aggressive, in your face and hard on the puck.
If we lose on bad goals, that’s a different story beyond aggressive. That could be a one of thing that might need to change.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,053
23,152
A collection of some great players doesn't make a great team.
Wayne Gretzky said it best and it still applies today even if you love to dismiss "physical" or "heavy" hockey in the 21st century.

Gretzky and Messier both admitted they were impacted by walking past the Islanders dressing room after Game 4 to see the four-time defending champs sitting with ice bags, rather than engaging in a wild championship celebration. In their minds, they were made aware that more sacrifice would be needed to climb the final rungs to a title.

You need the right collection of players that find the "it" factor. Until you find it, you can be pretty in 82 games. Even Yzerman didn't do it alone. In addition guys like Fetisov/Konstantinov/McCarty/Draper/etc. all played huge rolls. I'd rather a team of 20 very good skilled hard working players than 2 or 3 passive high skilled players.

Killer instinct.

We've said much of the same thing really, perhaps in different ways. Our kids haven't learned to win yet. It takes time.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board
Anderson has been the 2nd best goalie in every playoff series so far and has had especially bad game 7s the last 2 years.

I think the conversation should start there no?

That conversation revolves around load management as Freddy plays more games and faces more shots against then almost all goalies that enter the playoffs.

The solution is to rest Freddy more during the regular season to keep him fresher for the playoffs where it appears wear and tear and fatigue is the problem and if you want to go a long way in the playoffs you keeper is the key to that success.

The problem Hutch is a very questionable play to expect wins so you're at risk of missing the playoffs when you don't play Freddy in net, so its a catch 22 here and a fine line balancing act. .
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
We've said much of the same thing really, perhaps in different ways. Our kids haven't learned to win yet. It takes time.
And it takes time. Like Yzerman and Ovi. So we have to see who makes the cut because the team/players Yzerman and Ovi started out with weren't all the ones that finished it. That's why you can't invest heavily in everyone. The team must evolve with the collection to win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fogelhund

moon111

Registered User
Oct 18, 2014
2,890
1,283
I'd like to see some players who are throwing less hits then Nic Petan to step up their game.
 

Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
9,489
8,762
That conversation revolves around load management as Freddy plays more games and faces more shots against then almost all goalies that enter the playoffs.

The solution is to rest Freddy more during the regular season to keep him fresher for the playoffs where it appears wear and tear and fatigue is the problem and if you want to go a long way in the playoffs you keeper is the key to that success.

The problem Hutch is a very questionable play to expect wins so you're at risk of missing the playoffs when you don't play Freddy in net, so its a catch 22 here and a fine line balancing act. .

The load management narrative does have some weight but pretty much only applied to last year when both the team and he himself admitted he was banged up...and I thought he had his best playoffs as a Leaf outside of game 7. He just had the misfortune of running into the best playoff Rask seen in years. It's one of the reasons I still have faith in him.

The previous two years he an absolute tank and won MVP goalie at the worlds facing 50 shots a night half a world away after stinking up the net with the Leafs against the Bruins in the first series against them. He wasnt tired, he just played bad.. and he said so himself and I believe him.

It's not quite as bad a narrative as the "right side defense" narrative but it's just not a great explanation for Anderson's play. Anderson has shown he can play under pressure but has just crapped the bed in game 7s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 54thecup

dangomon

Registered User
Nov 4, 2017
1,800
1,760
Kingston, ON
Probably the only area of the game where Marincin deserves praise is on the PK. Feel free to criticize other aspects of the guys' play, but he does well on the PK with his reach and positioning.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board
The load management narrative does have some weight but pretty much only applied to last year when both the team and he himself admitted he was banged up...and I thought he had his best playoffs as a Leaf outside of game 7. He just had the misfortune of running into the best playoff Rask seen in years. It's one of the reasons I still have faith in him.

The previous two years he an absolute tank and won MVP goalie at the worlds facing 50 shots a night half a world away after stinking up the net with the Leafs against the Bruins in the first series against them. He wasnt tired, he just played bad.. and he said so himself and I believe him.

It's not quite as bad a narrative as the "right side defense" narrative but it's just not a great explanation for Anderson's play. Anderson has shown he can play under pressure but has just crapped the bed in game 7s.

Bruins load management of Rask last year likely a main reason they ended up in the Stanley Cup final and also a factor in why Leafs were out in round #1.

Boston did exactly for Rask what I'm suggesting Leafs might need to emulate for Freddy if they have playoff ambitions beyond round #1 and to manage how much Andersen has left and is fresh when the playoffs begin.

Systemically it means playing your backup more in the regular season.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,461
24,487
I'd like to see some players who are throwing less hits then Nic Petan to step up their game.
hey man you gotta give Petan props for being a little pitbull out there despite his very small stature.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,461
24,487
A collection of some great players doesn't make a great team.
Wayne Gretzky said it best and it still applies today even if you love to dismiss "physical" or "heavy" hockey in the 21st century.

Gretzky and Messier both admitted they were impacted by walking past the Islanders dressing room after Game 4 to see the four-time defending champs sitting with ice bags, rather than engaging in a wild championship celebration. In their minds, they were made aware that more sacrifice would be needed to climb the final rungs to a title.

You need the right collection of players that find the "it" factor. Until you find it, you can be pretty in 82 games. Even Yzerman didn't do it alone. In addition guys like Fetisov/Konstantinov/McCarty/Draper/etc. all played huge rolls. I'd rather a team of 20 very good skilled hard working players than 2 or 3 passive high skilled players.

Killer instinct.

I may be alone in this but I think the way our guys deal with those physical teams is very underrated.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->