IMHO he could play one year of junior hockey, he's not enough old for the AHL. He just needs a lot of ice-time and each time I saw him for the SCB he played great but he just doesn't get the credit from Törmänen I think. I mean, playing Loichat in front of Bertschy in the PP?
Switzerland: Swiss young guns
- Thread starter torero
- Start date
IMHO he could play one year of junior hockey, he's not enough old for the AHL. He just needs a lot of ice-time and each time I saw him for the SCB he played great but he just doesn't get the credit from Törmänen I think. I mean, playing Loichat in front of Bertschy in the PP?
Tanner Richard signing an ELC with the Bolts. He also signed an amateur Try-Out with the Syracuse Crunch so he'll play there until their season ends.
Rafik Soliman
Registered User
I attended the first Swiss exhibition game in Lenzerheide today and the coaching staff brought to my attention, that they already made their first cuts in the part of the camp which they held in Romanshorn....
And boy oh boy what a surprise, they cut Fiala (along with Michael Fora, Atanasion Molina, Silvio Schmutz and Kris Schmidli)!!
I totaly can not understand this move and from the explanations just sounded like Manuele Celio wanted to set an expample... But insane to cut the best player on their offense... They told, that he wasn't focused enough and couldn't bring himself into the team... What a crap! I don't know what they're expecting from a 16 year old kid??
Like duga said, I hope this is the last tournament of Celio. He just needs to go... Enough bad coaching and wierd roster decisions!?
These were the Lines on the exhibition game vs. Denmark (5-0 for Switzerland):
1. Sturm
Luca Fazzini - Jason Fuchs - Pius Suter
2. Sturm
Patrick Bandiera - Denis Malgin - Fabio Högger
3. Sturm
Tim Wieser - Ramon Pfranger - Marc Aeschlimann
4. Sturm
Noha Rod - Patrick Brändli - Timo Meier
EF: Andri Spiller
1. Verteidigung
Yannick Rathgeb - Mauro Dufner
2. Verteidigung
Jonas Siegenthaler - Roger Karrer
3. Verteidigung
Simon Kindschi - Cedric Maurer
4. Verteidigung
Tim Grossniklaus - Edson Harlacher
Torhüter
Nicola Aeberhard
Backup
Ludovic Waeber
Healthy scratch:
Daniel Guntern (G)
Maxim Mauerhofer (G)
Phil Baltisberger (D)
Xeno Büsser (D)
Luca Hischier (C)
Michael Hügli (LW)
Marc Marchon (RW)
However, Denmark was no competition...
Fazzini had a very good game. Has a great shot and his one-timer is lethal... He's a pure shooter - reminds me a lot of Inti Pestoni and his skating has improved a lot...
Högger displayed his speed and solid two-way game. But he still can't take as much influence on the offense as expected....
Aeberhard didn't have a lot of work to do, but he looked calm and always under controll... Is a bigger version of Melvin Nyffeler, not very fast and somehow always makes the save.
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Cutting a possible first rounder, well, Russia could do it.
Did Celio have a single good tournament with one of his teams? I cannot remember one.
Will Mirco Müller join the team? Did you hear anything?
Did Celio have a single good tournament with one of his teams? I cannot remember one.
Will Mirco Müller join the team? Did you hear anything?
Rafik Soliman
Registered User
Not from official side, but from media side I heard he will join the team next week and should play the exhibition game vs. the under-19 team in Herisau.
@rafik
Unbelievable!!! taken some advice from Kölliker and Eldebrink, how to get rid of big talent, you don't understand, and stay with your mediocre gameplan...
Modern coaching in any sport is really more and more demanding. Either you need a big brain (ala Mourhino) to see the big picture, or you have to be a strong personality, who does believe in his instincts and therefore decides intuitively correct.(ala AdC)
and then you had coaches in Switzerland over the last few years like
U.Fischer (FCZ), the moment he got coach I imidiatelly stopped watching them. I hate the Canepas, but Freddy what the hell were you thinking?
O.Inglin (Ski) for real? .... nichtsdestotrotz.....nichtsdestotrotz....nichtsdestotrotz
M.Rueda (YB), you really thought that could end up any good?
Dear managers, for the future, when a guy can't think, can't speak and doesn't have the personality to cover.... just don't hire him!
Why not trying to convince a guy like P.Fischer to coach a U-team instead of a jerk like Celio, who knows exactly, that he hasn't got the smarts to be a good coach, and even worse I think he knows that everyone knows it, so being under big pressure, he wants to show leadership..... ridicolous!
Unbelievable!!! taken some advice from Kölliker and Eldebrink, how to get rid of big talent, you don't understand, and stay with your mediocre gameplan...
Modern coaching in any sport is really more and more demanding. Either you need a big brain (ala Mourhino) to see the big picture, or you have to be a strong personality, who does believe in his instincts and therefore decides intuitively correct.(ala AdC)
and then you had coaches in Switzerland over the last few years like
U.Fischer (FCZ), the moment he got coach I imidiatelly stopped watching them. I hate the Canepas, but Freddy what the hell were you thinking?
O.Inglin (Ski) for real? .... nichtsdestotrotz.....nichtsdestotrotz....nichtsdestotrotz
M.Rueda (YB), you really thought that could end up any good?
Dear managers, for the future, when a guy can't think, can't speak and doesn't have the personality to cover.... just don't hire him!
Why not trying to convince a guy like P.Fischer to coach a U-team instead of a jerk like Celio, who knows exactly, that he hasn't got the smarts to be a good coach, and even worse I think he knows that everyone knows it, so being under big pressure, he wants to show leadership..... ridicolous!
Rafik Soliman
Registered User
That is something I have always critizied in Switzerland...
A big name, or let's call it a well known name, does not always make a good coach or front office member...
All thoes André Röthelis, Manuele Celios, Sven or Lars Leuenbergers, Jean-Jacques Aeschlimanns and so on and so on, just show the incompetence and inability of the Swiss GMs or Owners of the team to see real knownledge or talent....
But you know what, I truly start to believe, that there is realy no one who wants a coaching-job with the Federation... I mean how long are they searching no for a under-20 head coach? If you count the time before Sean Simpson, that makes now almost two years.... And just the fact, that a guy like John Fust, who clearly is not able to get another coaching-job in Switzerland (well who knows, now with the open spot in Lugano?) does not want to coach the under-20 team because not enough money just starts to ring all my alarm bells in my head...
A big name, or let's call it a well known name, does not always make a good coach or front office member...
All thoes André Röthelis, Manuele Celios, Sven or Lars Leuenbergers, Jean-Jacques Aeschlimanns and so on and so on, just show the incompetence and inability of the Swiss GMs or Owners of the team to see real knownledge or talent....
But you know what, I truly start to believe, that there is realy no one who wants a coaching-job with the Federation... I mean how long are they searching no for a under-20 head coach? If you count the time before Sean Simpson, that makes now almost two years.... And just the fact, that a guy like John Fust, who clearly is not able to get another coaching-job in Switzerland (well who knows, now with the open spot in Lugano?) does not want to coach the under-20 team because not enough money just starts to ring all my alarm bells in my head...
What always baffled me was, how badly the whole youth movement of the federation is. The clubs do a tremendous job when it comes to youth movement and development, but Celio is just one of many failures the federation has delivered recently.
Rafik Soliman
Registered User
Hmmm... I would say the whole youth movement of the SIHA is bad. It has improved a lot over the years...
Starting with the talent-collection at the age of 13 on a regional basis and follow them until 15 and than starting with international competition...
That system is similar to the one the Swedes have and the academy which will start somewhen is basicly a cheap copy of the USA national developement program...
They are also starting to educate coaches on a proper base, using the J+S Program (youth and sport program from the Swiss goverment)... The Swiss Hockey Program will sure benefit from this in a couple of years....
So again, I wouldn't say that the whole developement is bad, but I just have the feeling, that there aren't many coaches who wan't to work for the Swiss Federation, since they just don't pay good enough... So Coaches are not having the right level, since they are only the ones who are left out from the big jobs...
Hmmm... I would say the whole youth movement of the SIHA is bad. It has improved a lot over the years...
Starting with the talent-collection at the age of 13 on a regional basis and follow them until 15 and than starting with international competition...
That system is similar to the one the Swedes have and the academy which will start somewhen is basicly a cheap copy of the USA national developement program...
They are also starting to educate coaches on a proper base, using the J+S Program (youth and sport program from the Swiss goverment)... The Swiss Hockey Program will sure benefit from this in a couple of years....
So again, I wouldn't say that the whole developement is bad, but I just have the feeling, that there aren't many coaches who wan't to work for the Swiss Federation, since they just don't pay good enough... So Coaches are not having the right level, since they are only the ones who are left out from the big jobs...
You have a point, I might exaggerated the problems a little. But for me it's always a bad sign if the majority of your top end talents tries to get out of your country to start its pro career (Nino, Bärtschi, Kukan, Richard, Andrighetto and the list goes on...).
While our system does a fairly good job at producing disciplined and talented players that have no blatant weaknesses but also only a few strengths, we don't produce the star players like other countries do. Of course, we have only about half as many registered hockey players like Finland, as an example. But we don't have ANY players in the NHL right now that I would call a "star". Streit is aging, Hillers play is bipolar, Josi is not quite there yet, Sven and Nino are even farther from that point and Brunner is still a crapshoot. And the rest are good roleplayers, but nowhere near star status.
Don't get me wrong: I'm quite happy with our current situation. We are more present in the NHL than ever before and with Brunner we finally have a forward who has a real chance for a spot (and who doesn't run back home if there is the slightest resistance).
But with our financial situation (compared to eastern eropean countries like Slovakia and the Czech Rep.) and the relatively high popularity of ice hockey in our country, there is still much potential that isn't used right now.
I really hope the J+S programs output will be as good as it's promised to be. Because it could literally be the last stone that needs to be set in the bridge to the Top 7. I don't think we lack the natural talent for that.
Well, If Simpson would agree about coaching the u-20 furthermore, I'm fine with that. It even makes partly sence, 'cause he could get a glimpse on the most talented yoing players around New Year and that could raise the chances of the best to be considered comes May...
There's a big difference between NA and Europe when it comes to mediacoverage and people's interest in junior hockey, and if the income isn't good either...well then using it as a carreer's springboard is definitely one of the biggest pro-factors this job offers. (of course you can learn a lot about coaching in this short, partly in Ko-System played tournament,...but then you have to coach and not only forcing your system upon the team)
Unfortunately, there aren't many coaches as altruistic as AdC that would almost give their lives for a general improvement of the hockey culture... thus if he won't stay în Davos forever I could very well see him doing some junior coaching again.
There's a big difference between NA and Europe when it comes to mediacoverage and people's interest in junior hockey, and if the income isn't good either...well then using it as a carreer's springboard is definitely one of the biggest pro-factors this job offers. (of course you can learn a lot about coaching in this short, partly in Ko-System played tournament,...but then you have to coach and not only forcing your system upon the team)
Unfortunately, there aren't many coaches as altruistic as AdC that would almost give their lives for a general improvement of the hockey culture... thus if he won't stay în Davos forever I could very well see him doing some junior coaching again.
Rafik Soliman
Registered User
And that again is a problem in the world we are living in here in Switzerland... I think we all agree, that our Elite A Junior League is at 14 teams way to big for the current existing talent in Switzerland....
The perfect thing would be 6 teams on the top-level and concentrate all the talent on those teams... But, at the moment those teams would be GCK, Kloten, Bern, Langnau, Zug and maybe Davos (based on their schoolish-situation with the sport-gymnasium etc.) and if you look at that list you'd already have your "Röstigraben"-conflict... So the whole system would have to be on a reagional basis and the junior league would have to be independent and to make the jump to the National League, you'd problably have to implement some kind of draft system... but then again, based on our legal system, this would be impossible to construct, since in Switzerland you can not tell a Person he has to move from Davos to Geneva, without leaving him the joice to say no... And the whole system would falter, with the first talent that withdraws from the club that chose him....
So the federation went with 10 teams, but there just weren't that many french-speaking teams that were able to etablish themselfs in the A-Group.... So that's why they expanded again and again to 14 teams so they still could justifiy why they still want goverment money for the youth movement... You can not do that and in the end if all would stay in the german speaking part of Switzerland...
So the playing-modus they have now, is actually quite good and is leaned on the Swedish modus they use in their junior league... But it the clubs that are not handling it properly in my eyes...
The Championship starts with a preliminary round where each team plays the other twice and usualy that is when all the roster is loaded with the best talent, since every one wants to reach the top-7 and with that the Championship Round, where everybody is playing against each other again twice...
But what teams do, when they eather failed or reach that round, they pick the best talent out of the roster and insert them in the Senior-Roster (a.e. Simon Sterchi of the SCL young tigers, or Jason Fuchs of Chaux-de-Fonds or the GCK Lions who have all they talents in the NLB-Team) and that is making the extra round sometimes weaker than the preliminary round...
If the league would make a rule similar to the NHL, maybe that would help to give our Junior League more strenght? That would mean either you play 100% Junior or 100% Senior, but back and forth or call-ups are not allowed.... Maybe that would help?
Some valuable points here. I'd like to add the following:
Concentrating the U20 forces based on clubs is suboptimal IMO. Your list is biased by young players moving from the french/italian speaking parts to Bern or Zurich, where they find better infrastructres and easier integration of studies/hockey. U17 ranking give a better image of the club situation IMO.
The biggest obstacle is the school/apprenticeship situation. Few clubs have the infrastructure for hockey + studies.
I'd rather see a concentration on a regional level. Something like:
1. Team Léman (Geneva, Lausanne)
2. Team Matterhorn (Visp, Sierre, Martigny)
3. Team Jurassic Park (Ajoie, Chaux-de-Fonds, Biel)
4. Team Central East (Zug, Rapperswil)
5. Team Central West (Bern, Langnau, Fribourg)
6. Team Zurich (Zurich, Kloten, GCK)
7. Team East (Davos, Chur, Thurgau)
8. Team South (Ambri, Lugano)
Concentrate the best coaches around those teams, build modern infrastructures, integrate with colleges and companys offering apprenticeships, paving the way to engineering schools and universities and maybe towards a hockey career.
But this will never happen...there's too much club oriented thinking in Switzerland.
Concentrating the U20 forces based on clubs is suboptimal IMO. Your list is biased by young players moving from the french/italian speaking parts to Bern or Zurich, where they find better infrastructres and easier integration of studies/hockey. U17 ranking give a better image of the club situation IMO.
The biggest obstacle is the school/apprenticeship situation. Few clubs have the infrastructure for hockey + studies.
I'd rather see a concentration on a regional level. Something like:
1. Team Léman (Geneva, Lausanne)
2. Team Matterhorn (Visp, Sierre, Martigny)
3. Team Jurassic Park (Ajoie, Chaux-de-Fonds, Biel)
4. Team Central East (Zug, Rapperswil)
5. Team Central West (Bern, Langnau, Fribourg)
6. Team Zurich (Zurich, Kloten, GCK)
7. Team East (Davos, Chur, Thurgau)
8. Team South (Ambri, Lugano)
Concentrate the best coaches around those teams, build modern infrastructures, integrate with colleges and companys offering apprenticeships, paving the way to engineering schools and universities and maybe towards a hockey career.
But this will never happen...there's too much club oriented thinking in Switzerland.
Finlandia WOAT
js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
- May 23, 2010
- 24,153
- 23,750
What can anyone tell me about Gregory Hoffman? Like how does he project in the North America?
If he doesn't sign, he's either a free agent or he reenters the draft (I don't know). Deadline is this summer. Does he have a long term contract with Davos?
If he doesn't sign, he's either a free agent or he reenters the draft (I don't know). Deadline is this summer. Does he have a long term contract with Davos?
The kids seems to have elevated his game in a big way since going to Davos. I think he was the top scorer for a period of time there, not sure how long though. Del Curto, the head coach of Davos, said he is one of the best skaters he's ever seen.
I don't know if the NHL is his short-medium term goal (it most likely is, I don't know many hockey players who don't have such a dream/goal). Maybe he can move to the NHL in 2 years or so. I don't know anything about his status with Carolina. I hope they sign him.
Rafik Soliman
Registered User
aight... The Swiss won also the exhibition game vs. the under-19 team by a score of 4-2... But that wasn't a game to built on... The under-19 team was a very weak group, because of injuries and players still involved in their current teams championship....
At the end these was the under-18 line-up:
Starting goaltender:
Nicola Aeberhard
Backup:
Ludovic Waeber
Defense:
Mirco Müller - Edson Harlacher
Mauro Dufner - Yannick Rathgeb
Phil Baltisberger - Xeno Büsser
Simon Kindschi - Roger Karrer
Forwards:
Timo Meier - Denis Malgin - Fabio Högger
Marc Marchon - Luca Hischier - Michael Hügli
Ramon Pfranger - Marc Aeschlimann - Patrick Bandiera
Tim Wiesers - Patrick Brändli - Noha Rod
Healthy scratches:
Jonas Siegenthaler
Pius Suter
Jason Fuchs
That means, that the coaching staff made the following cuts:
Daniel Guntern (G)
Tim Grossniklaus (D)
Cedric Maurer (D)
Andri Spiller (F)
Like I said, the game was weak and you could realy see how the talented seperated itself from the rest. Mirco Müller is talent-wise a clear step ahead of all of the other players (under-18 AND 19)... The difference was realy increadible and I'm starting to believe, that there won't be another NHL-draftee besides him this year...
Phil Baltisberger just continues to impress with his strengh and Högger with his speed, but it's incredible how inconsistent the forward plays... Has hot and cold shifts and won't gain any ground if he plays like this at the WJC....
I still can't believe how Celio could not take Fiala with him... His offensiv cleverness and creativity is highly missed on the team... I would also say his immaturity and cookiness is something they could have used for this tournament.... I still can not imagine what the reason is to cut a player of the caliber like that???
Anyhow, this was the line-up of the under-19
Goaltender:
Niklas Schlegel
Defense:
Claude Paschoud - Lukas Frick
Riccardo Sartori - Zaccheo Dotti
Dennis Urech - Timon Zuber
Benoit Jecker - Mathieu Tanner
Forwards:
Nicola Brandi - Yannick Albrecht - Yanick Burkhalter
Patrick Incir - Nico Dünner - Lars Frei
Roman Faic - Flavio Schmutz - Olivier Bucher
Anton Ranov - Thomas Studer - Dario Kummer
At the end these was the under-18 line-up:
Starting goaltender:
Nicola Aeberhard
Backup:
Ludovic Waeber
Defense:
Mirco Müller - Edson Harlacher
Mauro Dufner - Yannick Rathgeb
Phil Baltisberger - Xeno Büsser
Simon Kindschi - Roger Karrer
Forwards:
Timo Meier - Denis Malgin - Fabio Högger
Marc Marchon - Luca Hischier - Michael Hügli
Ramon Pfranger - Marc Aeschlimann - Patrick Bandiera
Tim Wiesers - Patrick Brändli - Noha Rod
Healthy scratches:
Jonas Siegenthaler
Pius Suter
Jason Fuchs
That means, that the coaching staff made the following cuts:
Daniel Guntern (G)
Tim Grossniklaus (D)
Cedric Maurer (D)
Andri Spiller (F)
Like I said, the game was weak and you could realy see how the talented seperated itself from the rest. Mirco Müller is talent-wise a clear step ahead of all of the other players (under-18 AND 19)... The difference was realy increadible and I'm starting to believe, that there won't be another NHL-draftee besides him this year...
Phil Baltisberger just continues to impress with his strengh and Högger with his speed, but it's incredible how inconsistent the forward plays... Has hot and cold shifts and won't gain any ground if he plays like this at the WJC....
I still can't believe how Celio could not take Fiala with him... His offensiv cleverness and creativity is highly missed on the team... I would also say his immaturity and cookiness is something they could have used for this tournament.... I still can not imagine what the reason is to cut a player of the caliber like that???
Anyhow, this was the line-up of the under-19
Goaltender:
Niklas Schlegel
Defense:
Claude Paschoud - Lukas Frick
Riccardo Sartori - Zaccheo Dotti
Dennis Urech - Timon Zuber
Benoit Jecker - Mathieu Tanner
Forwards:
Nicola Brandi - Yannick Albrecht - Yanick Burkhalter
Patrick Incir - Nico Dünner - Lars Frei
Roman Faic - Flavio Schmutz - Olivier Bucher
Anton Ranov - Thomas Studer - Dario Kummer
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I think Müller will go in the early second, probably even between #25 and #30. And I think Andrighetto has a decent chance to be picked as an overager, as he impressed everybody at the last WJHC and posted decent numbers in the CHL.
But other than that... I agree. I don't really know about next year, too. At least Kevin Fiala and Phil Baltisberger could go within the first 3 rounds, but after them... (Perhaps I just overlook some guys here, I tend to do that)
Fiala could become a true gem. And Celios decision to leave him off the team is laughable, eventhough Celio may have personal issues with him. If Fiala doesn't act like he should, bench him for one or two games. But you don't leave your most talented forward off the team with such a reasoning.
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Latgale_fan
Registered User
Latvia U18 - Switzerland U18 0:3 (0:1, 0:2, 0:0)
Goals: 2 Hogger, 1 Hugli
All the info I have, didn't see the game. How do you rate your team's strength for this WC?
Goals: 2 Hogger, 1 Hugli
All the info I have, didn't see the game. How do you rate your team's strength for this WC?
What happend to Wieser, he's been the most productive player of his generation for quite some time... injured?
And Ramon Pfranger over Noah Rod... really?
And Ramon Pfranger over Noah Rod... really?
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BTW, as far as I remember Celio was also involved in the bad treatment of Luca 
i by GCK Lions prior to the second stint (after having tried to go to the US). As long as we do not learn to deal with extraordinary talent which might also have a flavor of extravagance we will never produce top level players, but rather a well-educated, well-drilled class of solid mediocre players. I sure hope that the "dinosaurs" will be replaced in the future by more progressively thinking people...
That being said, I just hope Celio will never come back to "my" organisation (ZSC)...
i by GCK Lions prior to the second stint (after having tried to go to the US). As long as we do not learn to deal with extraordinary talent which might also have a flavor of extravagance we will never produce top level players, but rather a well-educated, well-drilled class of solid mediocre players. I sure hope that the "dinosaurs" will be replaced in the future by more progressively thinking people...That being said, I just hope Celio will never come back to "my" organisation (ZSC)...
torero
Registered User
Our U18 was a bit less than brilliant in its last performances in Sochi.
after an initial 4-1 victory (30 - 19 shots) against the Slovaks.
0-6 loss vs Sweden (24 - 32 shots) and
1-10 loss vs Canada (21 - 35 shots)!
Someone has an idea what is wrong ?
goaltending ? scoring ?
Celio headcoach ?
tks
after an initial 4-1 victory (30 - 19 shots) against the Slovaks.
0-6 loss vs Sweden (24 - 32 shots) and
1-10 loss vs Canada (21 - 35 shots)!
Someone has an idea what is wrong ?
goaltending ? scoring ?
Celio headcoach ?
tks
There's only so much a coach can do. When you lose a game 10-1, changing one man won't solve everything.
Difference in terms of talent, that was wrong.
It's not exactly the deepest year for us, which gets painfully obvious against deep teams like the swedes and the canadians. Nothing new, I didn't expect much more. Would have been nice if the games against CAN and SWE weren't blowouts, though...
It's not exactly the deepest year for us, which gets painfully obvious against deep teams like the swedes and the canadians. Nothing new, I didn't expect much more. Would have been nice if the games against CAN and SWE weren't blowouts, though...
If you beat SVK 4-1 and let them no chance for a win and if you see that SVK was able to hold a 1-3 to Canada I see no reason why SWI should get such a blowout. Of course a new coach can't change everything but Celio just had so many chances now and never succeded. Of course we'll always be outsiders vs. Swe and Can but with the right attitude and the correct tactics it should be possible to hang on and get a good result. Last time Swi played Can on an U18 IHWC Switzerland won
