Swedish Prospect Update Thread

[OskarOskarius]

That is great, you used the same source as myself. So, you should understand it.

To sum it up. I will give you an example, player X has basic salary, individual bonus worth less than 20% of his salary & team bonus worth less than 20% of the combined wage bill. So, only basic salary is counted in cap formula (₽900 million=$13 million), if both bonuses are less than 20% of salary/team´s wage bill, then these bonuses are not counted in cap. That is exactly what I wrote in previous post. The richest KHL clubs spend on players more money than ₽900 million=$13 million as you originaly said.

Looks like those bonuses are very conditional so they won't affect the whole squad, nor all teams, so no the total budget won't be $18 million unless you're SKA St Petersburg.

 

[vorky]

As we know, nine clubs were in that highest paid bracket in 2020-21.

 

[OskarOskarius]

In other words the KHL is shrinking while SHL is growing.

 

[VictorLustig]

Salaries in the SHL are more complicated. How do you avoid high income taxation? You team up with bank (SEB) and hide the money in pension deals.

 

[vorky]

In other words the KHL is shrinking while SHL is growing.

I can not agree.

All available data indicates that top KHL clubs keep being miles ahead of the SHL richest clubs while the poorest KHL clubs are on their way to overcome the richest SHL clubs.

 

[OskarOskarius]

I can not agree.

All available data indicates that top KHL clubs keep being miles ahead of the SHL richest clubs while the poorest KHL clubs are on their way to overcome the richest SHL clubs.

Miles ahead? The current salary cap is at 900 million rubles, or $12,350,000. The SHL will have salary budgets of around $8 million by 2024. That is not counting sponsorship rights that should also increase. The KHL is shrinking its salary budgets while SHL will increase its budget. It is obvious then what the trend looks like. It ain't looking good for KHL.

 

[vorky]

I am under an impression that you do not understand the KHL salary cap formula despite my detailed explanation.

When I judge any leagues, I take into account all details, the salary payroll is just one criterion.

 

[OskarOskarius]

I am under an impression that you do not understand the KHL salary cap formula despite my detailed explanation.

When I judge any leagues, I take into account all details, the salary payroll is just one criterion.

That being said SHL is growing incredibly fast while the KHL is shrinking. It is obvious that we don't need to change anything, we are closing in on KHL and NLA.

 

[vorky]

That being said SHL is growing incredibly fast while the KHL is shrinking. It is obvious that we don't need to change anything, we are closing in on KHL and NLA.

As said, I take into account all aspects. If you wish, I can mention a few.

The KHL has been getting at least 10 new venues over 10 000 seats from 2008 while the SHL added just one such venue in Malmo. The SHL average attendance has decreased from 2008, so we can not talk about progress. And I could go on ...

 

[OskarOskarius]

As said, I take into account all aspects. If you wish, I can mention a few.

The KHL has been getting at least 10 new venues over 10 000 seats from 2008 while the SHL added just one such venue in Malmo. The SHL average attendance has decreased from 2008, so we can not talk about progress. And I could go on ...

The SHL just broke attendance record but whatever.

Publikrekord i SHL 2019/2020 - högst totalpublik någonsin

 

[vorky]

I talk about average attendance for SHL which has been lower in 2019/2020 than in 2011/2012. But if you wish to talk the total attendance of the regular season, I can give you approximative numbers for KHL so 4,8-5 million people vs 2 million in SHL. When SHL reaches at least 4 millions, we can continue talking.

 

[VictorLustig]

I talk about average attendance for SHL which has been lower in 2019/2020 than in 2011/2012. But if you wish to talk the total attendance of the regular season, I can give you approximative numbers for KHL so 4,8-5 million people vs 2 million in SHL. When SHL reaches at least 4 millions, we can continue talking.

Attending games is old school. Let's compare TV-deals instead.

 

[OiledUp]

I doubt the SHL will reach the KHL(or the NLA) wrt paychecks but if they start closing in they will have an easier time attracting the top (euro-bound) swedish players, they won't get as much money in the bank but if you add in the chance to play at home, better travel schedule compared to the KHL, import player rules of the NLA then it's an increasingly attractive option. So I don't think the SHL clubs need to give out quite as lucrative deals as the NLA/KHL to get a big step up in quality.

Another benefit is ofc that teams will have more money to put towards their junior programs which should help the quality of the league going forward.

 

[ZEBROA]

I talk about average attendance for SHL which has been lower in 2019/2020 than in 2011/2012. But if you wish to talk the total attendance of the regular season, I can give you approximative numbers for KHL so 4,8-5 million people vs 2 million in SHL. When SHL reaches at least 4 millions, we can continue talking.

Are u for real comparing attendance between a 10mill country with a 140 mill country?

 

[vorky]

Are u for real comparing attendance between a 10mill country with a 140 mill country?

No. I am comparing SHL since 2008 to today. Our friend Oskar talking about SHL growing incredibly in that period. I showed him that SHL average attendance does not support his view. Then he talked about total attendance in Sweden, so I gave him an example from KHL. Nothing more.

 

[OskarOskarius]

No. I am comparing SHL since 2008 to today. Our friend Oskar talking about SHL growing incredibly in that period. I showed him that SHL average attendance does not support his view. Then he talked about total attendance in Sweden, so I gave him an example from KHL. Nothing more.

Nor does it argue against it. The fact that media rights keep growing suggest a stronger interest in watching hockey, and regarding average attendance you are comparing two years, it’s hard to compare two years since SHL unlike KHL is an open league, which means popular high attendance teams like HV71 may get relegated and smaller teams like Oskarshamn can get promoted. I am very happy to see SHL growing strongly while KHL is shrinking. This is good for hockey.

 

[vorky]

Nor does it argue against it. The fact that media rights keep growing suggest a stronger interest in watching hockey, and regarding average attendance you are comparing two years, it’s hard to compare two years since SHL unlike KHL is an open league, which means popular high attendance teams like HV71 may get relegated and smaller teams like Oskarshamn can get promoted. I am very happy to see SHL growing strongly while KHL is shrinking. This is good for hockey.

I am not comparing two years. I am comparing all seasons since 2008-09. I am talking about a trend. I remember the times when the SHL (Elitserien) was the most attended hockey league in Europe, now the SHL is 4th behind NL, KHL & DEL. So, who is growing & who is shrinking? Feel free to prove me wrong, I will admit it if my data are not correct.

See the graph. You can see the SHL/Elitserien was above 6200, now is below 6000. I do not comment on what has happened to your league. I just see the trend. And it is just your problem that you accept the clubs from such small markets with such a small venue. You can not blame others for your decisions.

I can not agree with you that the KHL is shrinking. Not at all. The KHL is the most growing hockey league in Europe (all aspects considered).

 

[OskarOskarius]

I am not comparing two years. I am comparing all seasons since 2008-09. I am talking about a trend. I remember the times when the SHL (Elitserien) was the most attended hockey league in Europe, now the SHL is 4th behind NL, KHL & DEL. So, who is growing & who is shrinking? Feel free to prove me wrong, I will admit it if my data are not correct.

See the graph. You can see the SHL/Elitserien was above 6200, now is below 6000. I do not comment on what has happened to your league. I just see the trend. And it is just your problem that you accept the clubs from such small markets with such a small venue. You can not blame others for your decisions.

I can not agree with you that the KHL is shrinking. Not at all. The KHL is the most growing hockey league in Europe (all aspects considered).

Right they increased number of teams/matches and now sell record amounts of tickets. Hopefully they increase to 16 teams soon.

 

[vorky]

Right they increased number of teams/matches and now sell record amounts of tickets. Hopefully they increase to 16 teams soon.

That is not what I could call "growing incredibly" Just look at data, how many games you added to the regular-season and how many fans attended them. That is not "growing incredibly" in my vocabulary.

 

[OskarOskarius]

That is not what I could call "growing incredibly" Just look at data, how many games you added to the regular-season and how many fans attended them. That is not "growing incredibly" in my vocabulary.

Hmm pretty sure media rights going from 650 million kr to more than 1000 million kr is a pretty big growth? What is KHL media rights worth again? I guess like KHL ticket prices it's peanuts? Attendance stats is hard to analyze, because SHL only have 14 teams (and used to have only 12 teams) changes in individual teams can make a big difference. If for instance AIK got promoted to SHL you would have 8 games in regular season (AIK - Djurgården) that are sold out (16 000 tickets/game). So you have to look at the underlying growth, which is very strong.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

This exchange seems more suited to another thread (or a private conversation) as it has nothing to do with Swedish prospects for the NHL Draft).

 

[Garl]

I am not comparing two years. I am comparing all seasons since 2008-09. I am talking about a trend. I remember the times when the SHL (Elitserien) was the most attended hockey league in Europe, now the SHL is 4th behind NL, KHL & DEL. So, who is growing & who is shrinking? Feel free to prove me wrong, I will admit it if my data are not correct.

See the graph. You can see the SHL/Elitserien was above 6200, now is below 6000. I do not comment on what has happened to your league. I just see the trend. And it is just your problem that you accept the clubs from such small markets with such a small venue. You can not blame others for your decisions.

I can not agree with you that the KHL is shrinking. Not at all. The KHL is the most growing hockey league in Europe (all aspects considered).

So, 2011-12 is an outlier, because of lockout, 2012-13 was an outlier because Djurgarden got relegated.
And the drop from 2015-16 season is easily explained by the fact, that SHL expanded to 14 teams instead of 12. Ta-dam!

When it comes to KHL growing, what do you mean by growing? I mean, in terms of salaries it's def not growing, but shrinking. It is still way more well-paid than SHL but even the fact that we are talking about it is already telling. KHL used to be competative with NHL some time ago in terms of salaries.

What else? KHL TV deal is a laughing stock, SKA is getting what? 25 times less than sweidish teams?


attendance is still too low to make an impact, because of lack of purchasing ability of the people.

 

[vorky]

Hi @Garl, if you want to discuss the KHL growing, you are free to start a separated thread where you provide your analysis of the KHL growing since 2008. I can join the discussion there, just let me know.

 

[wings5]

Any chance Suzdalev leaves for the CHL? He was drafted by Regina in the CHL import draft and as far as I know is pretty good friends with Bedard

 

[Matt UK]

Just catching up with this thread. Sorry to be off-topic, PM me if preferred, but how are SHL attendances so low? I'm from the UK and they are comparable with some of our bigger teams.

I find this odd as obviously hockey is one of the main sports in Sweden. I had assumed that SHL attendances would be larger than this.