Swedish media: Finland has surpassed Sweden in hockey

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by Star Ocean, May 28, 2019.

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  1. Salmonsnake

    Salmonsnake Registered User

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    With Dahlin you are relying a lot on potential like Hughes. Heiskanen to Dahlin is what Kakko is to Hughes imo.
     
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  2. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    Dahlin is already MUCH better now, he had 11 more points and better defensive stats as I already said. Dahlin had an all time historic rookie season as an 18 year old and was dominant in the NHL. Dahlin is to Heiskanen what Kakko is to someone like Joel Farabee
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  3. karhukissa

    karhukissa Registered User

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    Sweden is better at the moment 100%, but domination is pretty strong term, especially when you didn't have a single 80p scorer and we had 3.

    Also you have to remember that in best vs best tournament, it's enough that we have better top-12 offense, you only have 4 lines, not 6 or 7. Also better goalie, and few star defenders makes it pretty equal. So if you're able to produce top end talent every year, it's enough. Of course depth plays bigger role if you have lot of injuries and stuff.

    And it's already close, just watch our u-18 and u-20 teams in recent years, that's pretty good indicator what's going to happen in the future. Unless Hedman, Karlsson and friends are playing at this same level to their 50's.
     
  4. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    You don't have better top 12 offense, we do. You have 4 forwards that would make it into the Swedish team, and no defensemen. You don't have any star defensemen, not at all. We still have great offensive close to PPG players that missed many games due to injury like Arvidsson, Forsberg, Bäckström and Pettersson. We absolutely dominate the defensive side, you have no defenseman that even comes close to making a Swedish top 6. You don't have more talent in your U18 and U20 teams, in fact, we do. You don't even have a better record. Sure we don't win the tournament but we win more games, which also might be an indicator. In the 2020 draft Sweden have top quality prospects in Raymond, Holtz, Gunler, Nybeck, Andrae and Grans while Finland only have Simontaival and Lundell, it looks like.

    A combined roster might help you realize how many more top quality Swedes there are, finns in bold

    Rantanen - Barkov - Landeskog
    Aho - Pettersson - Nylander
    Forsberg - Zibanejad - Arvidsson
    Lindholm - Bäckström - Laine
    Teravainen



    Hedman - Karlsson
    Ekman Larsson - Klingberg
    Gustavsson - Dahlin
    Ekholm

    Rask
    Lehner

    Second team

    Nyqvist - Karlsson - Rakell
    Lindblom- Backlund- Kakko
    Johansson - Söderberg - Bratt
    Johnsson - Sundqvist- Kapanen


    Lindholm - Strålman
    Klefbom - Lindell
    Edler - Larsson
    Brodin

    Rinne
    Lundqvist
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  5. karhukissa

    karhukissa Registered User

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    I love you effort :laugh: I have always said, that Sweden is better now. So if World Cup was held today or next year, your team projections would be pretty accurate, but underrating Heiskanen that much is criminal. Also i'm pretty sure that Granlund would be in the first team.

    But in the future, we will have better offense. That's it.
     
  6. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    We will see about the offense with Pettersson, Rakell, Lindholm, Zibanejad, Nylander, Forsberg, Willam Karlsson, Arvidsson and Bratt all being under 26, and Raymond, Holtz, Gunler and Nybeck coming up in the 2020 draft. Maybe I am underrating Heiskanen, but I think his lack of routine really showed this year, so he wouldn't make it now. Both his offensive stats and defensive stats where worse than 90% of the players I mentioned. In a few years he could make it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  7. karhukissa

    karhukissa Registered User

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    Yeah it's impossible to say 100% what's going to happen in the future.

    But for example if you look at these lineups you posted:
    Rantanen - Barkov - Landeskog
    Aho - Pettersson - Nylander
    Forsberg - Zibanejad - Arvidsson
    Lindholm - Bäckström - Laine
    Teravainen


    In couple of years this looks more likely, 8 Finns and 5 Swedes:
    Rantanen-Barkov-Landeskog
    Aho-Pettersson-Nylander
    Kakko-Zibanejad-Arvidsson
    Teräväinen-Kotkaniemi-Laine
    Granlund


    Also from the 2016-19 draft classes we have more top end forward talent. 2020 draft is still quite hard to tell, after U-18 tournament Sweden has the edge but a lot can happen, just like Lundell drop from top-3 to around 10 because our team had a bad tournament. Next season will tell.

    2021&2022 we have potential #1 forward pics in Lambert and Räty, but again it's very hard to say at this point.
     
  8. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    We have Pettersson and Andersson in 2017, so you are wrong there, but otherwise I agree, in terms of top quality, but we have more depth. We have good prospects in 2021 like Willam Eklund and also Goalie Jesper Wallstedt who looks like one of the better goalie prospects in many years. I would think both of us kind of overrate our own countries players and underrate the other ones, but I would love to hear what someone from another country thinks. Most of our forward stars are 22-26 and will only get better, Lindholm scored 78 points, Karlsson is young and has a 40 goal season and Forsberg had one of the best goals per game averages in the league, so they should make it. Mine would be:

    Rantanen - Barkov - Nylander
    Aho - Pettersson - Forsberg
    Kakko - Zibanejad - Arvidsson
    Landeskog - Willam Karlsson - Laine
    Elias Lindholm

    Hedman - Erik Karlsson
    Dahlin - Klingberg
    Ekman-Larsson - Ekholm
    Hampus Lindholm, Klefbom or Heiskanen

    Lehner
    Rask
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  9. karhukissa

    karhukissa Registered User

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    At this point it is hard to tell, who knows if Juolevi becomes a d-man people hoped him to become, Tolvanen&Vesalainen becomes top-6 forwards or Lias Andersson learns how to skate and dominates and little Nylander starts to play like his brother.

    A lot of questionmarks, time will tell. Also many Swedes have had rollercoaster kind of careers so far. Lindholm wasn't that good in Carolina but this season was amazing. Rakell and Wennberg had a huge drop, also Karlsson even though he had a pretty good season. So i'd say there's more questionmarks regarding Swedish forwards than Finnish, but again you never know how well Rakell plays next season for example, potential is there.

    Also next season i'm expecting guys like Hintz (Dallas 2C) and Borgström in Florida to step up big time. Also youngest player in the NHL, Kotka, will improve. So our C depth which has been fairly weak before is getting way better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  10. Salmonsnake

    Salmonsnake Registered User

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    The only swedish forward better than Teräväinen is Pettersson.
     
  11. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    You are deluded, please stop. Nylander, Bäckström, Pettersson, Forsberg, Arvidsson, Zibanejad, Lindholm, William Karlsson and Backlund are better, possibly Hörnqvist, Silverberg, Rakell and Bratt too
     
  12. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    It is impossible to tell but both countries are looking decent. Sweden have lots of solid young forwards I expect to step up big time too, players like Johnsson, Burakovsky, Sundqvist, Kempe, Lindblom and Bratt, we will see what happens.
     
  13. mattihp

    mattihp Registered User

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    Most of the time I would also list Bäckström and Filip Forsberg ahead of Teuvo.
     
  14. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    Don’t forget Landeskog, Nylander, Bäckström, Arvidsson, Zibanejad, Lindholm, Karlsson, Backlund and Rakell
     
  15. Keeptdos

    Keeptdos Registered User

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    Pointless to argue so I won't be replying since it seems like preference and bias both sides. You can swap players around.

    Laine-Barkov-Rantanen
    Aho-Pettersson-Forsberg
    Teräväinen-Zibanejad-Nylander
    Granlund-Bäckström-Arvidsson
     
  16. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    Just look at stats per game and they will argue against your obvious bias
     
  17. Brun0

    Brun0 Registered User

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    Laine-barkov-forsberg
    Rantanen-aho-pettersson
    Teravainen-backstrom-nylander
    Kakko-kotkaniemi-granlund

    Heiskanen-dahlin
    Karlsson-hedman
    Ekmanlarsson-klingberg

    Rask
    Rinne
     
  18. Lepardi

    Lepardi Registered User

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    In the World Cup in 2016 the percentages in the game between Sweden and Finland were about 65-35 for Sweden. If we get to see best-on-best hockey in Beijing in 2022 and Finland plays Sweden there, the numbers certainly won't be anywhere near as lopsided. Sweden will probably still be favoured in that game but the difference won't be awfully big.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  19. Keeptdos

    Keeptdos Registered User

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    Yeah actually swap Landeskog somewhere, maybe Arvidsson or Nylander. Don't act your not biased too, I prefer the guys I know better of course.

    Last 3 years:
    Finns - PPG
    Barkov - 1.02
    Rantanen - 0.91
    Aho - 0.81
    Granlund - 0.80
    Laine - 0.78
    Teräväinen - 0.74

    Swedes - PPG
    Bäckström - 0.95
    Pettersson - 0.93
    Forsberg - 0.81
    Arvidsson - 0.79
    Landeskog - 0.76
    Zibanejad/Rakell - 0.75
     
  20. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    Looking at this it is obviously very close but I would prefer Zibanejad and Rakell over Teravainen, Granlund and Laine due to a higher work ethic and better two way game. Arvidsson led the league in goals per game last season by the way.
     
  21. Lepardi

    Lepardi Registered User

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    It will be kind of funny if Finland keeps getting many of these young quality players to play for us at the IIHF Worlds every May from now on for the next 10 years, but they don't win the tournament even once in that timespan. In 2029 we'd still be remembering the heroics of Mörkö-Marko and talking about how maybe we'd get another gold medal if he was still there instead of guys like Barkov, Kakko, Lambert, Räty, Aho and Rantanen.
     
  22. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    Heiskanen and Kotkaniemi doesn’t even make the second team, and Lehner has by far the best save% and GAA this year. Lindholm had 78 points, Landeskog was over a ppg, Arvidsson lead the NHL in goals per game, Zibanejad outscored the entire fourth line and is better defensively. This is an obvious troll or biased opinion.
     
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  23. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    60-40 maybe?
     
  24. Lepardi

    Lepardi Registered User

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    I think it'll be closer to 55-45. The Finnish roster would be massively better than it was in 2016 because Finland has no quality skaters born between 1985 and 1990. Leo Komarov is probably the best one.
     
  25. canswetoxic

    canswetoxic Registered User

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    April fool 2020 came early today?
     
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