Rumor: Svech and Rasmussen with the team next year

[Shaman464]

Believe me, I definitely agree about preseason, as I put next to no stock in it, myself. However the thing with junior is, that so many guys light it up in their draft year, and the year after, and then never become that scoring force in the AHL or NHL. With Svech struggling to put up pts in the AHL, even after missing with injury for some of it, is quite concerning, becuase most players that struggle offensively in the AHL never become more than 3rd and 4th line energy guys, in the NHL. That is fine and all, but I think most of us are hoping for a player who can at least put up 40 pts or more in the NHL and right now, that seems on the lower end of the spectrum. Admittedly I know very little of Svech's game, as I have really never seen him play except last year in the one game he got into, where he scored in the shootout, however the way some on here have talked in the past about him, I was at least hoping we would get a 40+ pt second liner out of him.

Honestly I am not sure what was going on with him, but looking at his last 20 games he does have 15 points, so it looks like he might be coming out of it.

 

[Redder Winger]

Honestly I am not sure what was going on with him, but looking at his last 20 games he does have 15 points, so it looks like he might be coming out of it.

I noticed in the playoffs last year he was invisible the last two rounds.

 

[Oddbob]

The poor guys, noone really likes them although they are pretty good players. Of course, we are annoyed by their small stature, soft play, and weaknesses. But tatar is a good goal scorer, and nyquist plays with a bit of an edge this year. They are underrated because we thought they would develop further than they have.

I'm not a fan of either player, but they aren't as bad as a struggling svechnikov overtaking them by default (although i am a huge fan of svech)

Honestly I am down on both guys, they each have 27 pts and 26 pts, which is extremely bad for scoring players, and neither brings anything else to the table. We can make all the excuses in the book that they need a better cast of players to play with, but at some pt, these guys need to put up or shut up. The last 2 seasons, both have been embarrassingly bad offensively. Tatar got to 25 goals and 45 pts last year, but that was with a huge hot streak to end the season, when we were miles out of contention to anything, and Nyquist had what 48 pts, which is not good. Nyquist plays with freaking Henrik Zetterberg, one of the smartest play-makers in the game, and all he can muster up is 26 pts thus far, that is what irks me. Abdelkader and Helm could do better if they played with Hank all season, heck, Helm has 20 pts playing without Hank, so he is probably a 40 pt player with Zetterberg.

Honestly I am not sure what was going on with him, but looking at his last 20 games he does have 15 points, so it looks like he might be coming out of it.

15 in 20 is pretty good, hopefully he is turning a corner then.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Ok, that still shows that he can score at least in the AHL, with 4 goals in 6 or 7 games, versus Svech having 18 pts in 47 GP. Not knocking Svech as I hope he is a good one and will get it going, just wanting to say, there is no need to keep running Rasmussen down just because he wasn't the preferred choice to some or even many on the internet.

And it's simply not true. More than. half of the players playing in most of the preseason games are NHLers.
I still like Svech more than Rasmussen because he has shown that he is physical and I haven't seen or heard any of that from Rasmussen.
Most players that play in the CHL will never be good enough to play in the AHL and the ones that will, will be much better than than they are currently. I know it's a small sample size but it is encouraging to see that he had a productive preseason playing with and against much better players.

 

[GrGriffins]

Hes got 8 points his last ten games.. Thats not setting the world on fire but its definitely heating up and trending in the right direction compared to his horrible start

Svech is taking advantage of Puempel's injury (still out this week) and replace him on the top line with our two hottest players Street and Tangradi and in the past few games, he is starting to slowly produce. Hopefully, Svech is slowly gaining confidence in the offensive end of his game. He is also starting to not show his fustration when he is not producing and taking stupid penalties and when other teams try to get him riled up like he did for most of this season. Svech is also learning to skate away from that and not get goaded into taking a silly penalty. His improvement in his work along the boards and his fore checking in the offensive end is starting to pay dividends on the scoresheet as well. Hope he keeps it up as the Griffins will need his scoring production down the stretch to help us get into the playoffs.

 

[kliq]

Honestly I am down on both guys, they each have 27 pts and 26 pts, which is extremely bad for scoring players, and neither brings anything else to the table. We can make all the excuses in the book that they need a better cast of players to play with, but at some pt, these guys need to put up or shut up. The last 2 seasons, both have been embarrassingly bad offensively. Tatar got to 25 goals and 45 pts last year, but that was with a huge hot streak to end the season, when we were miles out of contention to anything, and Nyquist had what 48 pts, which is not good. Nyquist plays with freaking Henrik Zetterberg, one of the smartest play-makers in the game, and all he can muster up is 26 pts thus far, that is what irks me. Abdelkader and Helm could do better if they played with Hank all season, heck, Helm has 20 pts playing without Hank, so he is probably a 40 pt player with Zetterberg.

15 in 20 is pretty good, hopefully he is turning a corner then.

What are your expectations of Nyquist? Mine are right around 50 points per season, as that is pretty typical out of a average top 6 guy making 4mil/year. If your expectations are closer to 60/70 points (which would put him 18th - 35th in points last year) then your expectations are not realistic. Nyquist is not a top 35 forward in the NHL, he's a top 6 guy (which is essentially top 180) and last year he finished 109th in points, right where he should be. Not his fault he's miscast.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

What are your expectations of Nyquist? Mine are right around 50 points per season, as that is pretty typical out of a average top 6 guy making 4mil/year. If your expectations are closer to 60/70 points (which would put him 18th - 35th in points last year) then your expectations are not realistic. Nyquist is not a top 35 forward in the NHL, he's a top 6 guy (which is essentially top 180) and last year he finished 109th in points, right where he should be. Not his fault he's miscast.

He could be that 60/70 guy playing with Pav and Z in their prime but very few players have such a luxury. I'm sure his production would be better than it is with a decent coach. and PP.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Believe me, I definitely agree about preseason, as I put next to no stock in it, myself. However the thing with junior is, that so many guys light it up in their draft year, and the year after, and then never become that scoring force in the AHL or NHL. With Svech struggling to put up pts in the AHL, even after missing with injury for some of it, is quite concerning, becuase most players that struggle offensively in the AHL never become more than 3rd and 4th line energy guys, in the NHL. That is fine and all, but I think most of us are hoping for a player who can at least put up 40 pts or more in the NHL and right now, that seems on the lower end of the spectrum. Admittedly I know very little of Svech's game, as I have really never seen him play except last year in the one game he got into, where he scored in the shootout, however the way some on here have talked in the past about him, I was at least hoping we would get a 40+ pt second liner out of him.

Zetterberg isn't quite what he used to be. Still a great player though and I hope he stays for a couple of more years to teach the kids.

 

[Oddbob]

What are your expectations of Nyquist? Mine are right around 50 points per season, as that is pretty typical out of a average top 6 guy making 4mil/year. If your expectations are closer to 60/70 points (which would put him 18th - 35th in points last year) then your expectations are not realistic. Nyquist is not a top 35 forward in the NHL, he's a top 6 guy (which is essentially top 180) and last year he finished 109th in points, right where he should be. Not his fault he's miscast.

I think he should be 50-60 pt guy, but more important than any pts he gets, is that he and Tatar both are too streaky. They will score 4 goals in a 3 game stretch, and then have 1 goal in the next 23 games, which is why I am frustrated with them both. I would rather they scored 40 pts, but picked up pts every other game, without anymore than 3 or 4 games without any offense. It doesn't do a lot of good to be hot for a couple games and ice cold for 10-30 games. Yeah, there hot streaks help them accumulate pts, but many of their pts aren't helping us win games. Combine that with AA looking to be that level of streaky as well and we have 3 streaky offensive guys in our top 6, which is one reason why we have among the lowest goals scored in the league. Also as I said, Nyquist rides shotgun with Zetterberg, so if he is a 40 pt player on his own, he should be a 60 pt guy with Z, because even at 37 Hank is still making a lot of great passes that go nowhere.

Side thing, and this goes for all nhl players, it is beyond annoying that pt every other game players are "worth" 5 million a year and NTC contracts. I have been harder on Abdelkader than many, but he has 20 pts I think for 4.25 a year, but he also brings other things to the game like PK ability and is willing to get involved physcially, which neither Tatar or Nyquist are. If Abdelkader on the 3rd liner has as many pts as the other two, that should bug almost every Wings fan.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Ok, that still shows that he can score at least in the AHL, with 4 goals in 6 or 7 games, versus Svech having 18 pts in 47 GP. Not knocking Svech as I hope he is a good one and will get it going, just wanting to say, there is no need to keep running Rasmussen down just because he wasn't the preferred choice to some or even many on the internet.

Ras scored 4 goals in 4 preseason games but the choice in the draft was a no-brainer.
(Svech is up to 20 after notching 2 assists tonight)

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Preseason games aren't an indication of much, if anything, because teams rarely use their NHL rosters, and vets have no motivation to really bring it. Especially worse when there is a tiny sample size. The best comparison we have can make is based on their performance in the CHL, because they are much larger sample sizes. Right now Svech has a much better track record in the CHL than Ras. And Ras should be dominating because of his size, yet his ppg isn't world burning.

Other than the star players, vets are motivated to show they deserve more ice-time. Preseason games are usually very competitive.

 

[Oddbob]

Other than the star players, vets are motivated to show they deserve more ice-time. Preseason games are usually very competitive.

To me, you only really see a lot of hard work from youngsters who know they are at least close, like Hicketts and from veterans trying to push their way to a contract like Booth. The majority of the set roster players, just kind of go through the motions, cause they know they made the team and are just getting the rust off from the offseason, which I totally understand.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I think he should be 50-60 pt guy, but more important than any pts he gets, is that he and Tatar both are too streaky. They will score 4 goals in a 3 game stretch, and then have 1 goal in the next 23 games, which is why I am frustrated with them both. I would rather they scored 40 pts, but picked up pts every other game, without anymore than 3 or 4 games without any offense. It doesn't do a lot of good to be hot for a couple games and ice cold for 10-30 games. Yeah, there hot streaks help them accumulate pts, but many of their pts aren't helping us win games. Combine that with AA looking to be that level of streaky as well and we have 3 streaky offensive guys in our top 6, which is one reason why we have among the lowest goals scored in the league. Also as I said, Nyquist rides shotgun with Zetterberg, so if he is a 40 pt player on his own, he should be a 60 pt guy with Z, because even at 37 Hank is still making a lot of great passes that go nowhere.

Side thing, and this goes for all nhl players, it is beyond annoying that pt every other game players are "worth" 5 million a year and NTC contracts. I have been harder on Abdelkader than many, but he has 20 pts I think for 4.25 a year, but he also brings other things to the game like PK ability and is willing to get involved physcially, which neither Tatar or Nyquist are. If Abdelkader on the 3rd liner has as many pts as the other two, that should bug almost every Wings fan.

My biggest problem with Abby's contract is the length at his age especially considering he is a physical player and they usually deteriorate more quickly.
Most scorers are streaky

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

To me, you only really see a lot of hard work from youngsters who know they are at least close, like Hicketts and from veterans trying to push their way to a contract like Booth. The majority of the set roster players, just kind of go through the motions, cause they know they made the team and are just getting the rust off from the offseason, which I totally understand.

There's a lot of that but there are also a lot of players like Larkin wanting to show that the previous year was a fluke and Mantha wanting to establish himself as a top line player, Abby wanting to show he deserves to be on the PP, Daley showcasing himself to his new coach... Hicketts was very impressive in the preseason and based on that deserved to make the team but the Red Wing opening night roster is always mostly set in stone before camp even begins.

 

[Henkka]

Honestly I am not sure what was going on with him, but looking at his last 20 games he does have 15 points, so it looks like he might be coming out of it.

Svechnikov had a neck injury at the pre-season. Not the easiest one to recover.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Svechnikov had a neck injury at the pre-season. Not the easiest one to recover.

I don't think that he would have returned until he was fully recovered. A few games before he broke out of it (he started out the season with 2 goals and 3 assists in his first 27 games and then scored 3 goals and an assist in his next 3), in a post game interview Nelsen said when asked about struggles, that he has been snakebitten, gripping the stick too tight... and that he should break ut if it soon. I am sure the injury was a factor.

 

[MikeyDee]

The poor guys, noone really likes them although they are pretty good players. Of course, we are annoyed by their small stature, soft play, and weaknesses. But tatar is a good goal scorer, and nyquist plays with a bit of an edge this year. They are underrated because we thought they would develop further than they have.

I'm not a fan of either player, but they aren't as bad as a struggling svechnikov overtaking them by default (although i am a huge fan of svech)

But, I don't like the idea of either player taking ice-time from another player that has the potential to exceed them in production and overall growth. Obviously, Svech would have to prove himself first at the NHL level. So for next year, preseason and the early part of the regular season will be very important for him. I hope he can show that he is a better player, because I think both Tatar and Nyq have reached their peak.

 

[Henkka]

1.Center - Larkin
2.Center - Zetterberg --> Rasmussen (Zetterberg retires either 2018 summer or 2019)
3.Center - Nielsen
4.Center - Glendening --> Turgeon (trade at 2018 deadline)

1.Winger - Mantha
2.-3.Winger - Nyquist/Tatar --> Svechnikov (trade, one of Nyquist/Tatar goes)
2.-3.Winger - Tatar/Nyquist
4.Winger - Athanasiou
5.Winger - Abdelkader
6.Winger - Helm
7.Winger - Bertuzzi
8.Winger - Frk

This is how I see our basic forward corps and near future plan. Then add 2 vets on the bench as 13.-14. forwards. Or have Puempel & Sadowy there. Other prospects are very far away from NHL Top12. I wouldn't bank for anybody, except possible 1st round picks from 2018 & 2019 drafts. Those could be some difference makers, and when they are ready, they start pushing guys like Nielsen and Helm out from the organization. That's how their contracts are built, few years with NTCs, and later there's clausules for trades.

 

[turkleton85]

Honestly I am down on both guys, they each have 27 pts and 26 pts, which is extremely bad for scoring players, and neither brings anything else to the table. We can make all the excuses in the book that they need a better cast of players to play with, but at some pt, these guys need to put up or shut up. The last 2 seasons, both have been embarrassingly bad offensively. Tatar got to 25 goals and 45 pts last year, but that was with a huge hot streak to end the season, when we were miles out of contention to anything, and Nyquist had what 48 pts, which is not good. Nyquist plays with freaking Henrik Zetterberg, one of the smartest play-makers in the game, and all he can muster up is 26 pts thus far, that is what irks me. Abdelkader and Helm could do better if they played with Hank all season, heck, Helm has 20 pts playing without Hank, so he is probably a 40 pt player with Zetterberg.

i know, like is said i am not a big fan of them. But Svechnikov is not guarantee to be better than either player, thats what the post was about. I hope he takes the next step, i want him to succeed, he's a pretty cool player

 

[Frk It]

1.Center - Larkin
2.Center - Zetterberg --> Rasmussen (Zetterberg retires either 2018 summer or 2019)
3.Center - Nielsen
4.Center - Glendening --> Turgeon (trade at 2018 deadline)

1.Winger - Mantha
2.-3.Winger - Nyquist/Tatar --> Svechnikov (trade, one of Nyquist/Tatar goes)
2.-3.Winger - Tatar/Nyquist
4.Winger - Athanasiou
5.Winger - Abdelkader
6.Winger - Helm
7.Winger - Bertuzzi
8.Winger - Frk

This is how I see our basic forward corps and near future plan. Then add 2 vets on the bench as 13.-14. forwards. Or have Puempel & Sadowy there. Other prospects are very far away from NHL Top12. I wouldn't bank for anybody, except possible 1st round picks from 2018 & 2019 drafts. Those could be some difference makers, and when they are ready, they start pushing guys like Nielsen and Helm out from the organization. That's how their contracts are built, few years with NTCs, and later there's clausules for trades.

Here's the depth chart on defense:

 

[kliq]

I think he should be 50-60 pt guy, but more important than any pts he gets, is that he and Tatar both are too streaky. They will score 4 goals in a 3 game stretch, and then have 1 goal in the next 23 games, which is why I am frustrated with them both. I would rather they scored 40 pts, but picked up pts every other game, without anymore than 3 or 4 games without any offense. It doesn't do a lot of good to be hot for a couple games and ice cold for 10-30 games. Yeah, there hot streaks help them accumulate pts, but many of their pts aren't helping us win games. Combine that with AA looking to be that level of streaky as well and we have 3 streaky offensive guys in our top 6, which is one reason why we have among the lowest goals scored in the league. Also as I said, Nyquist rides shotgun with Zetterberg, so if he is a 40 pt player on his own, he should be a 60 pt guy with Z, because even at 37 Hank is still making a lot of great passes that go nowhere.

Side thing, and this goes for all nhl players, it is beyond annoying that pt every other game players are "worth" 5 million a year and NTC contracts. I have been harder on Abdelkader than many, but he has 20 pts I think for 4.25 a year, but he also brings other things to the game like PK ability and is willing to get involved physcially, which neither Tatar or Nyquist are. If Abdelkader on the 3rd liner has as many pts as the other two, that should bug almost every Wings fan.

I don't know about that, Z is a very good player and I have a ton of respect for him, but he doesnt have the ability to make a guy like Nyquist look like a top 30 player at this stage in his career. In 2018 Z is a low end 1C, and low end 1C's wont take a top 100 player and make them look like they are a top 30 player. Z himself can't put up 70 points anymore, last time he did that was 2011.

Agreed that a bit more consistency would be nice, but one could argue "I'd rather have a guy that can take over a game every once in a while, not just get 1 point here or there". I think inconsistency is pretty common for someone of Nyquist's caliber. Larkin, Mantha, Tatar etc. all have the same issues, that's typically what separates the elite from the good, but even the elite have spells where they can't score.

 

[GrGriffins]

I don't think that he would have returned until he was fully recovered. A few games before he broke out of it (he started out the season with 2 goals and 3 assists in his first 27 games and then scored 3 goals and an assist in his next 3), in a post game interview Nelsen said when asked about struggles, that he has been snakebitten, gripping the stick too tight... and that he should break ut if it soon. I am sure the injury was a factor.

Svech never dealt with an injury that he got in the pre-season and when he came back from it (over a month into the regular season), he tried too hard too fast to where things did not go right for him at all. He was pressing to the point that he was making stupid plays on the ice (taking unwanted penalties, slow reacting to the play offensive end or defensive end, not shooting the puck when he needed to, etc) and his play showed that. He needed to go to Toledo for a week or two to regain his confidence, but why the Wings did not do this is beyond me. He might have gotten out of his rut much fast, but they did not do this and it took Svech much longer to get out of it. Injuries to other forwards during the season here in GR did not help either as guys were rotating around constantly as well.

Svech is slowly picking up on the offensive end of his game, but nothing like he did last season here in GR, and I hope he keeps it up. With Puempel's injury, Svech is with our two hottest scorers right now (Street and Tangradi) and with their help, his confidence is growing and he is producing. I hope he continues producing as the Griffins are going to need every forward to produce in order to make the playoffs this season.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I will say this, if Svech pans out (assuming Rasmussen is sure fire NHLer, even if his ceiling isnt super high) the wings are suddenly going to have a very big and fairly nasty offensive core in the coming years, especially if Givani Smith can maybe pan out to a 3rd line guy and we get another one this draft. A ton of size, strength, and temper

Been saying this for awhile now. Detroit is in the middle of a backwards rebuild. Most teams get draft superstars and then build the supporting cast. Detroit's built the supporting cast and lacks the superstars.

Add an elite center and an elite defender and they have a really good young team in a few years. Maybe not so much on the defensive side, depending on how Cholo and Hronek pan out. Harder to say with defenders. Once upon a time people though Brendan Smith and Ryan Sproul were gonna lead us to the promised land. But on the forward end, Larkin/Mantha/AA are already proving themselves.

I get the feeling that, unless we continuously bomb the draft, this'll be a team that goes from sucking one year to drafting a superstar and exploding back into the mix.

 

[Red Stanley]

Been saying this for awhile now. Detroit is in the middle of a backwards rebuild. Most teams get draft superstars and then build the supporting cast. Detroit's built the supporting cast and lacks the superstars.

Add an elite center and an elite defender and they have a really good young team in a few years. Maybe not so much on the defensive side, depending on how Cholo and Hronek pan out. Harder to say with defenders. Once upon a time people though Brendan Smith and Ryan Sproul were gonna lead us to the promised land. But on the forward end, Larkin/Mantha/AA are already proving themselves.

I get the feeling that, unless we continuously bomb the draft, this'll be a team that goes from sucking one year to drafting a superstar and exploding back into the mix.

Our draft position compared to the rest of the league has been terrible for the past 3 decades so it's no surprise at all. Larkin is the closest thing to a gem we've gotten in a very long time. Too many question marks still on young players/prospects to know where we'll be in a couple of years. We'd literally have to hit it out of the park these next two drafts before even contemplating success in the near future. That's just the way I see it.

 

[Filppula]

7 goals in 47 games for Svech? I'm all out of hope for him. That's awful.