Super Two's for 3-year ELCs?

[stator]

Do you think it would benefit the NHL to have a super-two clause in the CBA for 3-year ELC's that have the top seasonal TOI to slide up (turn a 3-year ELC into a 2-year)?

This would be similar to MLB's super two's.

The average age, in the playoffs as well, has been dealing for forwards and defensemen since the turn of this century. Not true for goalies though. I would exclude them from being a super-two. Another issue is defensemen typically dominate the average TOI per game. So some adjustment would have to be taken for those.

This would help with negotiating with the player's union, plus help with the issue of tanking. It seems to be getting worse. And if the average age keeps declining, it should get worse.

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[Flames Fanatic]

Nope. Owners won't be happy to lose that extra year of cheap cap space players.

Not to mention I'm not sure TOI is the way to do it either.

 

[Hynh]

Why would any owner or fan want this?

 

[stator]

Why would any owner or fan want this?

Good question:

1. Minimizing the benefit of tanking for generational talent when it's two years, rather than three. As a fan, I hate this tanking that goes on every year. Clubs are not interested in fielding players to win, like Toronto last year, Avs this year, but to maximize their lottery chances. I get the need to rebuild, but not at the expense of fans who pay to watch games like me... Center Ice, and season tickets.
2. Owners that manage clubs better and rarely in the draft lottery would prefer this.
3. Getting more unfair to generational talent that come into the league and play full seasons immediately, compensation-wise. Really no investment of young talent to grow into NHL level of competition as was one of the intents.
4. Since the next step up is RFA, and we know this is a tough hurdle for other clubs to clear, clubs would not have a big risk of losing their super-two. It would just mean they need to pay them more appropriately, one year sooner.
5. The NHL needs to do something or the cap system will be a risk in 2022. Fehr can be your best friend one minute, and pit viper the next. I believe Bettmen is going to have a difficult time negotiating with him (and is the reason why the players hired him). What Fehr wants, if his years in MLB is any indication, is to include each club's worth in the salary cap system. He believed that the rising worth in MLB teams were due, in part, by the contributions of the players. This is one of the reasons why MLB has an ineffective cap system. Besides, if the NHL does not substantially increase the cap limits, including the ELC and max bonus, Fehr will have no problem with organizing players for striking.

Not to mention I'm not sure TOI is the way to do it either.

For the sake of debating, if it is done, what would be a better way?

MLB super-two's is based upon service days, but I don't believe that would work well in the NHL. Thus, I mentioned TOI. If a club that has a league leader, but wants to retain the 3rd year, they have the ability to restrict TOI (either season total or average TOI/G) for that third year. Unlike MLB, they can still be on the 23-man roster.

Using TOI in some fashion protects clubs from IR and LTIR for EL players that would otherwise be a super-two.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Unless they reduce the overall length of time that players are under club control, which the owners will never agree to without massive concessions, it doesn't minimize anything - you still have a generational talent. You just save money for one year.

Most of the clubs that are rarely in the draft lottery are near the cap, and would hate this. They don't have the space to throw a legit RFA offer at a generational player, and they need their own young talent to stay cheap, and would be punished if they found a buried gem with a later draft pick.

You're talking about a handful of players every decade. Escrow is far less fair to far more players than the generational talent waiting an extra year for the payday that sets him up for life on his second contract.

This is a solution in search of a problem.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Good question:

1. Minimizing the benefit of tanking for generational talent when it's two years, rather than three. As a fan, I hate this tanking that goes on every year. Clubs are not interested in fielding players to win, like Toronto last year, Avs this year, but to maximize their lottery chances. I get the need to rebuild, but not at the expense of fans who pay to watch games like me... Center Ice, and season tickets.
2. Owners that manage clubs better and rarely in the draft lottery would prefer this.
3. Getting more unfair to generational talent that come into the league and play full seasons immediately, compensation-wise. Really no investment of young talent to grow into NHL level of competition as was one of the intents.
4. Since the next step up is RFA, and we know this is a tough hurdle for other clubs to clear, clubs would not have a big risk of losing their super-two. It would just mean they need to pay them more appropriately.
5. The NHL needs to do something or the cap system will be a risk in 2022. Fehr can be your best friend one minute, and pit viper the next. I believe Bettmen is going to have a difficult time negotiating with him (and is the reason why the players hired him). What Fehr wants, if his years in MLB is any indication, is to include each club's worth in the salary cap system. He believed that the rising worth in MLB teams were due, in part, by the contributions of the players. This is one of the reasons why MLB has an ineffective cap system.

For the sake of debating, if it is done, what would be a better way?

MLB super-two's is based upon service days, but I don't believe that would work well in the NHL. Thus, I mentioned TOI. If a club that has a league leader, but wants to retain the 3rd year, they have the ability to restrict TOI (either season total or average TOI/G) for that third year. Unlike MLB, they can still be on the 23-man roster.

Using TOI in some fashion protects clubs from IR and LTIR for EL players that would otherwise be a super-two.

Avs this year? Sorry what Duchene, Johnson, Landeskog, MacKinnon how is that tanking

 

[TBC]

This would be terrible in the salary cap era. It's already hard enough to ice a competitive team for long without running into cap issues and one of the problem solving for that is icing rookies on ELC's.

 

[Hynh]

Good question:

1. 
   

   Minimizing the benefit of tanking for generational talent when it's two years, rather than three. As a fan, I hate this tanking that goes on every year. Clubs are not interested in fielding players to win, like Toronto last year, Avs this year, but to maximize their lottery chances. I get the need to rebuild, but not at the expense of fans who pay to watch games like me... Center Ice, and season tickets.

   
   Yeah, fans that have had to suffer through terrible teams should really be limited in how long they can enjoy their "prize". If you have a problem with tanking teams, don't watch their games. By the way, Colorado didn't tank. They just suck.
   
   

   Owners that manage clubs better and rarely in the draft lottery would prefer this.

   
   All teams will eventually suck. Look at the mighty Red Wings. No owner knows who the next generational talent is so none of them will be willing to screw themselves over if they get lucky.
   
   

   Getting more unfair to generational talent that come into the league and play full seasons immediately, compensation-wise. Really no investment of young talent to grow into NHL level of competition as was one of the intents.

   Since the next step up is RFA, and we know this is a tough hurdle for other clubs to clear, clubs would not have a big risk of losing their super-two. It would just mean they need to pay them more appropriately, one year sooner.

   
   As a fan, no thanks. I don't want to see a good team torn apart by the salary cap. I'm sure the owners will agree with me on this.
   
   

   The NHL needs to do something or the cap system will be a risk in 2022. Fehr can be your best friend one minute, and pit viper the next. I believe Bettmen is going to have a difficult time negotiating with him (and is the reason why the players hired him). What Fehr wants, if his years in MLB is any indication, is to include each club's worth in the salary cap system. He believed that the rising worth in MLB teams were due, in part, by the contributions of the players. This is one of the reasons why MLB has an ineffective cap system. Besides, if the NHL does not substantially increase the cap limits, including the ELC and max bonus, Fehr will have no problem with organizing players for striking.

   
   Lol, the NHLPA will never beat the NHL, the cap is here to stay. By 2022 kids being drafted will have never been alive in a world the NHL didn't have a salary cap.

 

[The Macho King]

I don't even see why the PA would want this.

 

[Seachd]

I have no idea what a "super two" is, but I do know that the NHL will in no way allow a signed contract to be modified, which includes length.