Super Team Tournament Voting [Rof16 complete]

[Makaveli]

Seems like it could get heated it here very soon.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

how did you steal Gio from me

Whoops I need to fact check before I post

 

[Makaveli]

Matchup 4 thoughts:
If I wanted to take out LA who would I want going against them, well, probably one of the top defensive teams up front. @Makaveli why'd you give yourself this matchup...
LA pros:
- Best line right now
- Solid C depth
- Decent top 6
- Solid if unspectacular D depth

Detroit pros:
- Positional versatility especially with Cs
- Defensive competence up front
- They'd be a pain (agitators)
- D depth has bug names

La cons:
- I really dont like your 4th line for this
- Andersen in clutch situations

Detroit cons:
- Your 4th line is just as bad in this
- How good can your goalies really be

Jeez this matchup sucks for both teams and honestly I really need to look at it closer and may change but LA is among my favourites:
La Line 1 > Detroit line 1 but I think Detroits top line has the defensive competence to actually negate LAs... it'd be really tight I'll still give LA the edge though. Playoff Crosby is the best player though.
LA line 2 > Detroit line 2... it's really not close, you're relying on people loving Wilson but unfortunately I feel he's a depth player for this comp, and I don't like burakovsky, but I loveeee Point
Detroit line 3 > LA line 3, so I don't like Buchnevich either and while LAs line 3 is strong Detroits line 3 will check LA into the ground and totally neutralize so Im going them the edge.
4th lines... I dont want to talk about either but I'm picking the line that has a bit more skill here, not the bangers trying to hold off David Pastrnak
D1... I call both a wash. I still love Karlsson and just dont think San Jose is his best fit.
D2... I'm still undecided because I prefer Detroit but it may simply be name value at this point and LAs had much better seasons
D3... they're almost the exact same, but I take LA simply because I think Chara will struggle against LA. Overall D is a wash for now until I'm convinced

G... I don't think either group wins it all, but I'd pick LAs as of now simply because I take the devil I know vs the devil I dont

LA has the edge for me for now but jeez these are so close man, it's brutal the teams that will bow out

That's just the way she goes sometimes. Only way it would be fair if it was completely random! I'm confident in Andersen behind this group, he's been playing behind a really bad defensive team in Toronto and still put up good numbers. Also I feel like my 4th line is underrated, but I do agree it is my weak point. Yeah it doesn't have the star power, but they're solid defensively and can chip in on offense if needed!

 

[OB5]

I actually don’t like ice cream

Vote

Our center depth is equally as good: Seguin - Hertl - Cirelli - Hayes

We also feel that we outclass Montreal at every winger position. Our defense is also superior (hint - they can actually play defense). And our biggest advantage is goaltending, where we have a top 3 starter while Montreal is starting a guy who could end up getting waived next offseason.

Vote

see? I know my shit

 

[hockeynorth]

Matchup 5... the one that makes me cry
Dallas pros:
One if my favourite forward groups and best top line
awesome D1
Elite goaltending

Montreal pros:
Elite Cs all the way
Unreal LD and top pair
G had good years

Dallas cons:
Can they play 2 way hockey?
Was Gibsons year an outlier or reality

Montreal cons:
I dont want Jarry on my cup team as the starter
I dont trust all the wingers

Man I hate this matchup so much, I love both and both were among my favourites...
Dallas L1 is one of the best though and will ultimately beat Montreal L1
Aho on L2 is cheating especially with Dad, and I prefer Hertl as 3C, and don't love Dallas wingers but nor do I love Toffoli, ultimately this is a wash for me.
Montreal has the better 3C but weaker 3Ws in my opinion, whereas Dallas 3rd line is way more dynamic
L4 another wash
D1: wash
D2 Montreal edge because I dont like Pulock and Rielly can play at a Norris level
D3: Montreal edge, I trust Morrisey and Stralman more for a cup run
G: This goes to Dallas for me simply because I don't trust carry and I love Gibson

Overall: I'm still undecided, completely 50/50 and will need until voting to choose and some more debate, though Dallas has the fraction of a hairs edge for me right now

 

[hockeynorth]

Matchup 6...
Columbus pros:
Elite forward group, among the best, literally everything forward related other than L4
Goalies are great
solid D

Winnipeg pros:
Who let him get McDavid + Zibanejad?
You have a Foligno, thats a plus for you in my voting (but actually D)
Another elite goalie

Columbus cons:
L4

Winnipeg cons:
I have questions about some of your forwards, Sanford, Donskoi, Nelson, Silfverberg, Perron for this comp and their roles

Overall:
Columbus top line is just awesome but McDavid will be very hard to contain, though Barkov is one of the best options to do it. so CL1 > WL1
I love Columbus L2 again, and Zibanejad is doing a lot of heavy lifting here in comparison so CL2 > WL2
Winnipeg idk what you were doing here with L3, can you explain maybe it'll help. Is it a shut down line? Regardless CL3 >WL3 for me because those forwards are great and Lindholms a cheat code that low
I actually much much prefer WL4 to CL4, and think it'd be able to match CL3, it's great and plays a heavy brand of hockey. One of my favourite 4th lines and should be hard to score on.
D1 is a wash, both great pairs bringing different elements
I'm taking CD2 here over WD2 but I could be convinced to change because thats a dirty second pair, I just love that Boston pair
WD3 > CD3 IMO because Weegar is an analytical darling and Petry is great whereas both Columbus D are just yeah sure, that works.
Goalies are totally a wash
Ultimately I'm taking Columbus as of now (can change for sure, nothings fixed!), it's about 60-40 for me going Columbus, the forward depth being the main deciding factor really tipping the scales. It'll just be hard to beat for Winnipeg though there are teams that can *cough Toronto cough*, and L1 isn't my absolute favourite. I wish Winnipeg had different wingers for McDavid.

 

[hockeynorth]

Match up 7
I have qualms with both of these teams...
Edmonton pros:
Big and can play a heavy cycle game
Goalies
Offensive punch

Vegas pros:
Elite 2 way hockey
Top pair is in the top 3 best
Goalies
Forward depth

Edmonton cons:
I dont like 1/3rd of your top 9 as is in comparison
Your D is iffy

Veags cons:
Star forwards
L2 is good but how good? Feel it may be missing elements

Overall I love both teams but also really dislike elements of both, so in this matchup I think Edmonton L1 cleans out Vegas (obviously)
But L2 is a total wash s they're built almost identically
L3 has to go to Vegas, Edmontons L3 is just too question filled for me
L4 Is close but I take Vags' checking line over the midget line because of Johnsson season and Johnson < Coyle now
D1 has to go to Vegas, I love their top pair
D2 Is also in Vegas' favour
D3 is close but I'm taking the pair I trust more in Edmonton
Goalies are close to a wash but Vasi is just a tier above Lehner and so I take Vegas there

Overall this is a matchup of depth, and for me Vegas' is better. I think Edmonton did the best they could with their restriction but the depth just wasn't there in comparison so as of now I'm leaning for Vegas, even if their top 6 I don't love.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Match up 7
I have qualms with both of these teams...
Edmonton pros:
Big and can play a heavy cycle game
Goalies
Offensive punch

Vegas pros:
Elite 2 way hockey
Top pair is in the top 3 best
Goalies
Forward depth

Edmonton cons:
I dont like 1/3rd of your top 9 as is in comparison
Your D is iffy

Veags cons:
Star forwards
L2 is good but how good? Feel it may be missing elements

Overall I love both teams but also really dislike elements of both, so in this matchup I think Edmonton L1 cleans out Vegas (obviously)
But L2 is a total wash s they're built almost identically
L3 has to go to Vegas, Edmontons L3 is just too question filled for me
L4 Is close but I take Vags' checking line over the midget line because of Johnsson season and Johnson < Coyle now
D1 has to go to Vegas, I love their top pair
D2 Is also in Vegas' favour
D3 is close but I'm taking the pair I trust more in Edmonton
Goalies are close to a wash but Vasi is just a tier above Lehner and so I take Vegas there

Overall this is a matchup of depth, and for me Vegas' is better. I think Edmonton did the best they could with their restriction but the depth just wasn't there in comparison so as of now I'm leaning for Vegas, even if their top 6 I don't love.

You are a wise man

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Umm, no, you don’t. My top line has elite scoring and playmaking. My 2nd line will destroy your youngsters. On the 3rd line Tuch will put your guys through the boards and I have the better Strome. Goalies? How many cups does your guy have? 0, and it’ll stay that way. Rangers kick Vancouver’s ass just like in ‘94.

Mackinnon >>> Tavares, Kucherov >> Meier and Teraveinen both>>Benn
I feel that my 1st line has an edge here, my 2nd-4th lines are better as well. Miller is coming in with 72pts in 69 games and Debrincat is a proven 40g scorer. Reinhart is solid as well.
My Defense just destroys yours, and my goaltending is stronger as well. Murray has been losing his starting job this season. Doughty and Binnington both have cups btw
The league has changed since 94. If Messier rag dolled Linden today like he did in game 6 of the SCF he would now be playing in game 7.
Also Meier is known to be quit physical, and Mackinnon is simply and unstoppable beast.

 

[hockeynorth]

Matchup 8
Vancouver pros:
Top 6
Goalies
Centres

New York pros
Top line
D
Centres

Vancouver cons:
depth everywhere

New York cons:
goalies leave something to be desired

Overall I think I summed these two up head to head actually in the other thread, and said Vancouver is ultimately what Iw Ould've luted to seeNew York be. New York didn't change anything since then, and I'm taking Vancouvers goalies and over New York but honestly I'm still torn here now, because I much prefer New Yorks game breakers. I'll be watching both of you debate this matchup and will then make my choice, but for right now I'll stick with Vancouver, it's near changing hough

 

[hockeynorth]

Mackinnon >>> Tavares, Kucherov >> Meier and Teraveinen both>>Benn
I feel that my 1st line has an edge here, my 2nd-4th lines are better as well. Miller is coming in with 72pts in 69 games and Debrincat is a proven 40g scorer. Reinhart is solid as well.
My Defense just destroys yours, and my goaltending is stronger as well. Murray has been losing his starting job this season. Doughty and Binnington both have cups btw
The league has changed since 94. If Messier rag dolled Linden today like he did in game 6 of the SCF he would now be playing in game 7.
Also Meier is known to be quit physical, and Mackinnon is simply and unstoppable beast.

Kuznetsov over Miller is why I have his team so close to yours FYI, his numbers seem unrealistic to me. And your 6 Canucks are really hurting you with me. Why you're ahead right now is him not changing his lines like suggested but his debates so far I'm preferring tbh

 

[hockeynorth]

That's just the way she goes sometimes. Only way it would be fair if it was completely random! I'm confident in Andersen behind this group, he's been playing behind a really bad defensive team in Toronto and still put up good numbers. Also I feel like my 4th line is underrated, but I do agree it is my weak point. Yeah it doesn't have the star power, but they're solid defensively and can chip in on offense if needed!

I think it's fine and you'll very likely in but it's closer than would be with some other matchups.

 

[Llamamoto]

Match up 7
I have qualms with both of these teams...
Edmonton pros:
Big and can play a heavy cycle game
Goalies
Offensive punch

Vegas pros:
Elite 2 way hockey
Top pair is in the top 3 best
Goalies
Forward depth

Edmonton cons:
I dont like 1/3rd of your top 9 as is in comparison
Your D is iffy

Veags cons:
Star forwards
L2 is good but how good? Feel it may be missing elements

Overall I love both teams but also really dislike elements of both, so in this matchup I think Edmonton L1 cleans out Vegas (obviously)
But L2 is a total wash s they're built almost identically
L3 has to go to Vegas, Edmontons L3 is just too question filled for me
L4 Is close but I take Vags' checking line over the midget line because of Johnsson season and Johnson < Coyle now
D1 has to go to Vegas, I love their top pair
D2 Is also in Vegas' favour
D3 is close but I'm taking the pair I trust more in Edmonton
Goalies are close to a wash but Vasi is just a tier above Lehner and so I take Vegas there

Overall this is a matchup of depth, and for me Vegas' is better. I think Edmonton did the best they could with their restriction but the depth just wasn't there in comparison so as of now I'm leaning for Vegas, even if their top 6 I don't love.

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you regarding our offence comparisons.

Lee - Kopitar - Wheeler kills Kreider - O'Reilly - Pavelski, Pav's barely a top-6 forward whereas Wheeler's an elite top line winger. Isn't close for me.
Niederreiter - Johansen - Radulov for me is slightly better than Bertuzzi - Duchene - Bailey
Johnsson - Johnson - Yamamoto is better than Beauvillieaur - Coyle - Smith, Yamamoto was ppg in his 20+ games with the Oilers, he just improves every line he's on.

My star power and depth on offence beats his.
His star power on defence beats mine, but my depth is better.
His goaltending is slightly better.

Based on that, my overall would go to my team.

 

[hockeynorth]

I believe I went over every matchup now and stated my case in my own as well, I can definitely be swayed and will watch the debates but those are my preliminary thoughts on every matchup. Some are close and others aren't, some have unfortunate matchups either because a good teams out or a weaker team is moving on, but regardless all matchups have implications and some teams I'd take over others even if I don't like the team as much, because of how they would do against that team. Feel free to debate my debates and I'm excited to see just who finishes where in this, these debates will mean quite a bit for some of you

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Kuznetsov over Miller is why I have his team so close to yours FYI, his numbers seem unrealistic to me. And your 6 Canucks are really hurting you with me. Why you're ahead right now is him not changing his lines like suggested but his debates so far I'm preferring tbh

I don't really see how having 6 Canucks hurts me, Edler I could probably improve on(but he had the most points of any dman available when I took him), but when I took my 2c, Miller was far above the other centre's for production, Tanev is one of the leagues top shut down dmen, Virtanen had the most goals/points of the RW's and Markstrom in the 19th round was by far the best goalie available. I'm surprised someone didn't take him as their starter with the last 2 years he has had.
Hughes is a top 5 point producing dman in this league. Kid has the potential to win the Norris Trophy during his career.

Edit: I also don't see how their D can even compare to mine. All 3 of my pairings are better.

 

[hockeynorth]

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you regarding our offence comparisons.

Lee - Kopitar - Wheeler kills Kreider - O'Reilly - Pavelski, Pav's barely a top-6 forward whereas Wheeler's an elite top line winger. Isn't close for me.
Niederreiter - Johansen - Radulov for me is slightly better than Bertuzzi - Duchene - Bailey
Johnsson - Johnson - Yamamoto is better than Beauvillieaur - Coyle - Smith, Yamamoto was ppg in his 20+ games with the Oilers, he just improves every line he's on.

My star power and depth on offence beats his.
His star power on defence beats mine, but my depth is better.
His goaltending is slightly better.

Based on that, my overall would go to my team.

I really don't think your team D is good enough, and I have big questions about your forwards as of right now. I think Coyle/Smith would effectively neutralize Yama, and the other two are meh for me. I think your second lines would jus check each other into the ground tbh. I'm a big Bertuzzi fan and your 3rd line did not have a good year, like at all, and I don't feel confident they'll rebound that well either.

 

[Llamamoto]

I really don't think your team D is good enough, and I have big questions about your forwards as of right now. I think Coyle/Smith would effectively neutralize Yama, and the other two are meh for me. I think your second lines would jus check each other into the ground tbh. I'm a big Bertuzzi fan and your 3rd line did not have a good year, like at all, and I don't feel confident they'll rebound that well either.

Not a single player could neutralize Yama this year. He would be the best right winger on Vegas lol.

I mean, I have 8 out of the top 12 forwards in our matchup:

Draisaitl
Rantanen
Scheifele
O'Reilly
Kopitar
Wheeler
Landeskog
Duchene
Johansen
Lee
Radulov
Kreider

My top pairing of defence is weaker, but my depth is better. And it's not like Duchene and Smith had good years either. For our second line, O'Reilly - Kreider and Lee - Kopitar are basically a wash, although Wheeler absolutely murders Pavelski. Wheeler's still a top-10 right winger while Pavelski's more of a third line now. Not close for me.

 

[hockeynorth]

I don't really see how having 6 Canucks hurts me, Edler I could probably improve on(but he had the most points of any dman available when I took him), but when I took my 2c, Miller was far above the other centre's for production, Tanev is one of the leagues top shut down dmen, Virtanen had the most goals/points of the RW's and Markstrom in the 19th round was by far the best goalie available. I'm surprised someone didn't take him as their starter with the last 2 years he has had.
Hughes is a top 5 point producing dman in this league. Kid has the potential to win the Norris Trophy during his career.

Every player in this should be putting up huge points, its a star team showdown. I would've liked to see a better shut down player over Edler, and not a group of guys getting carried by Vancouvers elite youngsters production. It's not so much who as where you have them. Regardless you're ahead right now but I don't trust JT Miller to do it again not in Tampa so I have Kuzy ahead, I prefer him. I just think you heavily relied on points without looking at what else these guys can do which will hurt your team in the long run for this, but you should go over New York unless he can effectively debate why not

 

[hockeynorth]

Not a single player could neutralize Yama this year. He would be the best right winger on Vegas lol.

I mean, I have 8 out of the top 12 forwards in our matchup:

Draisaitl
Rantanen
Scheifele
O'Reilly
Kopitar
Wheeler
Landeskog
Duchene
Johansen
Lee
Radulov
Kreider

My top pairing of defence is weaker, but my depth is better. And it's not like Duchene and Smith had good years either. For our second line, O'Reilly - Kreider and Lee - Kopitar are basically a wash, although Wheeler absolutely murders Pavelski. Wheeler's still a top-10 right winger while Pavelski's more of a third line now. Not close for me.

It's mostly your 3rd line and D depth hurting you for me in this matchup right now. It sucks two great teams are facing off so early. Your top line destroys his, but I just think his depth is that bit better

 

[Llamamoto]

It's mostly your 3rd line and D depth hurting you for me in this matchup right now. It sucks two great teams are facing off so early. Your top line destroys his, but I just think his depth is that bit better

I see.

For me, I just don't see a depth difference. I like my 3rd line slightly more and I prefer my 4th line by quite a bit. Our 2nd pairings on D are pretty similar but I prefer my 3rd pairing. If anything, I would actually prefer my depth.

Thanks for your analysis though!

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you regarding our offence comparisons.

Lee - Kopitar - Wheeler kills Kreider - O'Reilly - Pavelski, Pav's barely a top-6 forward whereas Wheeler's an elite top line winger. Isn't close for me.
Niederreiter - Johansen - Radulov for me is slightly better than Bertuzzi - Duchene - Bailey
Johnsson - Johnson - Yamamoto is better than Beauvillieaur - Coyle - Smith, Yamamoto was ppg in his 20+ games with the Oilers, he just improves every line he's on.

My star power and depth on offence beats his.
His star power on defence beats mine, but my depth is better.
His goaltending is slightly better.

Based on that, my overall would go to my team.

Yamamoto does look solid in his 27 game career, but I’ve gone for a more experienced line up he just doesn’t have the sample size needed.

Pavelski had a rough season on a brutal offensive team, but before that he had 9 strait seasons of 60-79 points (excluding lock out year where he was pacing for that).

And while the tiny line is very cute, I just don’t feel they would be effective in playoff hockey.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Every player in this should be putting up huge points, its a star team showdown. I would've liked to see a better shut down player over Edler, and not a group of guys getting carried by Vancouvers elite youngsters production. It's not so much who as where you have them. Regardless you're ahead right now but I don't trust JT Miller to do it again not in Tampa so I have Kuzy ahead, I prefer him. I just think you heavily relied on points without looking at what else these guys can do which will hurt your team in the long run for this, but you should go over New York unless he can effectively debate why not

This is true, but also any player producing solid numbers on lines that are not this elite in the NHL should realistically produce better with them. Outside Pettersson, the RW has been a frequent change and Miller has actually been the driving force on the line this year. Guy has been unreal offensively and defensively. He has also been solid Defensively for years and has been a possession driver in New York, TBL and Now Vancouver. His points flourished here because of a bigger role than he had in Tampa.

Edler has also been having nearly a career year, putting up points without PP time at a rate he previously did with PP time, and his defensive zone play has been strong enough. I felt he was the best to partner up with DeAngelo. My PP 1 with Hughes and PP2 with DeAngelo give me such a deadly combo for pp qb that no other team has. They were #4 and 5 in points by a dman this year

 

[hockeynorth]

This is true, but also any player producing solid numbers on lines that are not this elite in the NHL should realistically produce better with them. Outside Pettersson, the RW has been a frequent change and Miller has actually been the driving force on the line this year. Guy has been unreal offensively and defensively. He has also been solid Defensively for years and has been a possession driver in New York, TBL and Now Vancouver. His points flourished here because of a bigger role than he had in Tampa.

Edler has also been having nearly a career year, putting up points without PP time at a rate he previously did with PP time, and his defensive zone play has been strong enough. I felt he was the best to partner up with DeAngelo. My PP 1 with Hughes and PP2 with DeAngelo give me such a deadly combo for pp qb that no other team has. They were #4 and 5 in points by a dman this year

Ahem... See Toronto, my top 2 scoring D put up more points. Oh and I have Fox as a 3rd high scoring D.

I do like your blueline though just don't know how far your team will go. Tbh both Vancouver and New York I had among the lowest ranked teams pretty solidly, whereas my top was very fluid.

 

[hockeynorth]

I see.

For me, I just don't see a depth difference. I like my 3rd line slightly more and I prefer my 4th line by quite a bit. Our 2nd pairings on D are pretty similar but I prefer my 3rd pairing. If anything, I would actually prefer my depth.

Thanks for your analysis though!

Like I said it can change, I'll see what other people have to say about it all. I wish voting started today though

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Ahem... See Toronto, my top 2 scoring D put up more points. Oh and I have Fox as a 3rd high scoring D.

I do like your blueline though just don't know how far your team will go. Tbh both Vancouver and New York I had among the lowest ranked teams pretty solidly, whereas my top was very fluid.

True, but barely, and it is pretty much all Josi when taking top 2 into consideration. At this stage Josi is definitely better than any of my top 3 dmen, but then I edge myself. Doughty is just that good in my eyes. On a super team like mine Doughty is easily a top 3 Norris consideration again.