While I agree, I expect Jarmo to get decent assets in return for Panarin if it comes to it. In addition to those assets, we still have a 23 y/o Norris contending D-man, a just turned 21 y/o #1 D-man, and a just turned 20 y/o #2C, who has the potential to become a true #1C as soon as this year. Sure, other teams have 2 #1Ds and multiple #1C’s, but how many of them can say the oldest of that bunch is 23? We are a very young team, and a Panarin trade could make us even younger. That being said, we are already a top 10-12 team in the league. Even if we don’t get the expected development out of every player, we have a good (starting) amount of elite/potentially elite players. Yes, even without Panarin. Don’t get me wrong, it’s extremely unfortunate, but his loss won’t make us a long term bottom feeder.
Speculation: Summer 2018 General Speculation/Discussion Thread
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Cowumbus
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Just because you’re young doesn’t mean anything. We have been the youngest team in the league for the last few years and have nothing to show for.
Also Werenski is NOT a 1D yet.
Lightning (Point, Sergachev, Vasileski), Avalanche (Mackinnon, Rantanen,Kerfoot, Zadorov), Oilers (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse), Panthers (Barkov, Ekblad) Hurricanes (Aho, Teravainen, Hanifin, Slavin, Pesce) Bruins (Pasta, McAvoy, Carlo), Philly (Patrick, Provorov, Konecny, Sanheim) all off the top of my head with young players just as good if not better than ours, also have very good veterans mixed in as well, which we don’t have especially after losing Panarin.
Jones is a beast.
McAvoy>Provorov> Werenski as far as D’s
McDavid>MacKinnon>Draisaitl>Barkov>Aho>Point>PLD as far as C’s
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EspenK
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You forgot the Leafs group of Matthews, Marner, Nylander. But your overall point is well taken. Taking of the fanboy glasses the Jackets are what the last two seasons have determined: a playoff team that is not yet ready for prime time. Take away Panarin without a decent replacement package and the team drops down a notch or two. Add in the possiblity that Bob is also gone after next year and its hello emergency rebuild.
I've said it before but I just don't see the value in keeping Panarin and letting him walk for nothing. The odds of that strategy resulting in a deep Cup run is slim in my opinion. First choice is obviously re-sign him (which appears to be near impossible prior to the season starting);2nd choice is to get him traded to a team he agrees to sign with for an established NHL player plus whatever is needed to balance the deal and the third choice is to trade him to a lousy team for a package of draft picks including next years number 1.
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I appreciate the dartboard approach to listing who would or wouldn't come to the Jackets. I was on the fence on who would want to play for the CBJ, this helps. Your insight into their psyche is profound. The actual question is how many of those our FO would even try and go for. Our FA attempts are very modest, part of that is because of cap concerns. They also tend to address larger concerns via trade. Worked out great with Jones, not so much Saad or Panarin to this point. Panarin mainly because of extension concerns.
About the only time I made a definitive statement on a player was Taveres and that one bit me. You might want to avoid setting yourself up failure. The reality is you have no idea. The odds are you are correct in that none of those will sign here as a FA, but that likely won't prove if they were willing to.
I have no idea what more he would need to do to prove it to the league. Oh that's right, he already has. All he has to do now, which is what all players have to do, continue to prove it.
Wheeler and Seguin, I agree. Skinner, Eberle, Duchene - those guys are not marquee guys that every team will write a check for. I'm not sure the Jackets should even write a check for Eberle. Skinner carries a lot of risk. Duchene is not a high-end 1C, so a lot of clubs will only offer 2C money for him.
This is a forward looking discussion, and youth is forward looking- you get something out of it when you let it mature. You are saying we didn't get anything out of it in the past, that's because they were still well before their primes (Although they have won a lot of games the last two years, near the top of the league).
If you are comparing teams youth, though, the Jackets just have a deeper young core than all of those teams. In Dom Luszczyszyn's Under-25 Core Rankings, the Jackets came 2nd, largely because "The eight “core” players under 25 is the most of any team." And he did his ranking before Nutivaara joined that core. I think Nuti will be a top-pair-quality D in his time.
I think Jarmos approach to reshaping the D early is just now really starting to pay off. We have a possible talent influx over the next 3 seasons on what's considered already an above average d group, that's considerably underaged.
Over the next 2 seasons Werenski looks to solidify himself as one of the best young dmen in the league (his TOI should start going up as he's starting to fully acclimate to the NHL and takes on more responsibilities)
Nuttivara could start to prove he's more than just a role dman and can be trusted to log minutes in more than just 5v5
Gavrikov could come over and provide a much needed physical, shutdown presence.
Carlsson will continue to develop in the AHL and NHL and will be fighting for the 6/7 spot
Kukan will try to solidify his spot in the NHL once and for all
And while it's still early, Peeke seems to already have a plan in place for life after school. Which hopefully includes signing and playing in Cleveland ASAP so he can start his professional development.
I think the 2015 draft was the perfect storm for Jarmo. The scouts saw a lot of talent on the defensive side of that draft and went D-heavy. Dmen usually take longer to develop so going D-heavy in your first draft could pay off big time later down the road if you get lucky on a few picks.
The depth he has built on the defensive side now needs to be replicated on the offensive side of things. There needs to always be youth pushing for a spot on those 3/4 lines to keep everyone hungry and fighting for a spot. I think we're still another season or two away before we have the same kind of depth offensively that we do defensively. A Panarin trade would also likely great affect that as we probably would have depth out the wazoo post trade.
Over the next 2 seasons Werenski looks to solidify himself as one of the best young dmen in the league (his TOI should start going up as he's starting to fully acclimate to the NHL and takes on more responsibilities)
Nuttivara could start to prove he's more than just a role dman and can be trusted to log minutes in more than just 5v5
Gavrikov could come over and provide a much needed physical, shutdown presence.
Carlsson will continue to develop in the AHL and NHL and will be fighting for the 6/7 spot
Kukan will try to solidify his spot in the NHL once and for all
And while it's still early, Peeke seems to already have a plan in place for life after school. Which hopefully includes signing and playing in Cleveland ASAP so he can start his professional development.
I think the 2015 draft was the perfect storm for Jarmo. The scouts saw a lot of talent on the defensive side of that draft and went D-heavy. Dmen usually take longer to develop so going D-heavy in your first draft could pay off big time later down the road if you get lucky on a few picks.
The depth he has built on the defensive side now needs to be replicated on the offensive side of things. There needs to always be youth pushing for a spot on those 3/4 lines to keep everyone hungry and fighting for a spot. I think we're still another season or two away before we have the same kind of depth offensively that we do defensively. A Panarin trade would also likely great affect that as we probably would have depth out the wazoo post trade.
Cowumbus
Registered User
A 1D can carry a top pairing, he can not do that yet. Jones could carry anyone and be a decent 1st pair, Werenski is not at that level, yet.
Cowumbus
Registered User
5 years ago we were saying we would be actually competitive today. Today has arrived and we still are not very good (post season).
"We were saying". Which thread is this in?
They've more or less hit my expectations. Most importantly the talent level is exponentially higher nowadays. I probably thought they would have won a round by now but the truth is there's no fundamental reason they could not have. It's a good team, just a step below the metro juggernauts, and if they played anyone else it could have gone differently (they also could have beaten the juggernauts too - there's a big luck element in a single playoff series).
If your sense of the fundamental health of the club is just determined by "how many playoff series have they won lately?" then you'll be seriously misled. The Senators just won 2 series a year ago, and at no point were they better than the Jackets.
Per the common usage, "1D" means the guy who can carry a pairing, and together with a 2D they form the top pairing. 3D + 4D is second pair.
I'm not sure what your definition of competitive is, but it is clearly different than mine. We absolutely are competitive.
Cowumbus
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Cowumbus
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See bumps
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/putting-it-all-together-what-does-jarmo-do-now.1372977/
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It was interesting to read back there. I didn't see anyone make expectations about winning this or that.
My post in that thread was something like "We don't know what to expect long run from this club".
A more common response was that the club was once again not bad enough to get high draft picks (a bad thing).
It sure seemed like folks 5 years back would be happily surprised by the club's improvement. May I suggest threads from 2015 summer. That's when a lot of posters (not including myself) went off the deep end with high expectations.
Since I can't quote them...
Ayeeeee, pretty f***ing spot on.
Not my list but holy hell Jarmo has done an exceptional job reshaping the D. Was Savard really not even on the radar still in 2013? And obviously the 2015 draft helped.
CBJFan827
I hate you Brad Marchand
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This was before he (kind of) fixed his skating. That was always the concerns about him as a prospect. There also are no prospects on that list--those were our NHL defenders.
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Jarmo was hired on Feb. 13, 2013.
2012-2013
2012-13 Columbus Blue Jackets Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
2017-2018
2017-18 Columbus Blue Jackets Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
2012-2013
2012-13 Columbus Blue Jackets Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
2017-2018
2017-18 Columbus Blue Jackets Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
The point is that this is clearly the best team the CBJ have ever had, and the team is a top-12-15 team in the league at the very worst.
You people wont be happy until we get a "generational" talent or win a cup.
You people wont be happy until we get a "generational" talent or win a cup.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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....Well...yeah? Isn't that the point of being a pro sports league fan?
cslebn
80 forever
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Actually, I think that's debatable. The point is to be entertained. We don't have to win every game and every championship. Would it be great to win? Hell yes. But people still root for this team even without that (and hopefully enjoy that - otherwise I'd question why be a fan).
CBJFan827
I hate you Brad Marchand
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If that was the entire goal of sports, Cleveland Browns fans would have cried themselves into dry corpses by now.
EspenK
Registered User
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The point is to win. I am entertained when the team I root for wins or at least plays well. But the overriding thing I want in teams I root for are championships.
Cowumbus
Registered User
I bumped for threads on our board, but apparently that is against the rules. That is only one of them.
People claiming our cup window was just starting with RyJo and comp. Other fans congratulating us saying we are going to be good for a long time.
At the end of the day we have our best team in franchise history and it’s stull a bubble team. That is sad.
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