Post-Game Talk: Sully's security blankees fail

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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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Teams that play hard the entire season usually peter out when the games really count. Look no further than the Caps for an example.

That doesn't even get into how many injuries that the Pens have dealt with, which might be related to earlier play style.

I am concerned.

But leave them some benefit of the doubt to be determined by how hard they play in mid-April on.

Teams that do well in the playoffs may not play hard all season, but they typically look good down the stretch run to the playoffs. The Pens have taken the opposite approach; they looked "playoff ready" for the first 40-ish games, then began to look like last year's club for these last 25-ish games.

I'd feel a lot more confident in their playoff chances if that were reversed.
 
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Your Boy Troy

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Adding undersized finesse forwards to an aging and fragile team still doesn't make any sense to me. Sheary has been efficient as of the late, but it doesn't change the fact that this game specifically needed some type of momentum shift from a physical standpoint. Whether it was throwing a few punishing hits or initiating a fight/scrum.

You no longer can rely on the archetypes of 2016 and 2017. Especially when Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are older. Kessel is gone and past his prime. The parity of the east is almost unfathomable this season. Every team in the league has an advantage in size and grit.

What exactly is the motto of this team?

Speed? Who gives a flying f***? Every team is in the league plays with velocity up and down the ice.
 

Hobodrifter

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Jan 23, 2009
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I get that Sully has to be in the firing line when results aren't there.

But I cannot get away from the fact that when we were hobbled and and Geno was played as the 1st priority, players bought in and we did well.

If we agree that the main problem over the last at least 10 games have been diminished effort/team D, then I have to question whether this can really be on Sully that much.
I agree. The Sully blame seems misplaced and hyperbolic, unsurprising for this place. I'd like to see more of 71 and less of 87, split them up on the PP, and figure out who is the starting goalie. The same coach that had the walking dead winning more than losing didn't suddenly lose the room or become a bad coach.
 

Hobodrifter

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Jan 23, 2009
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Jeannette
Adding undersized finesse forwards to an aging and fragile team still doesn't make any sense to me. Sheary has been efficient as of the late, but it doesn't change the fact that this game specifically needed some type of momentum shift from a physical standpoint. Whether it was throwing a few punishing hits or initiating a fight/scrum.

You no longer can rely on the archetypes of 2016 and 2017. Especially when Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are older. Kessel is gone and past his prime. The parity of the east is almost unfathomable this season. Every team in the league has an advantage in size and grit.

What exactly is the motto of this team?

Speed? Who gives a flying f***? Every team is in the league plays with velocity up and down the ice.
I wish this team had someone like Tom Wilson, I really do. But that missing variable has literally nothing to do with the current crap play. Instigating scrums and throwing punches doesn't make dmen pinch at the right time or their forwards cover for their pinch. If only it was as simple as adding grit, then we'd know exactly what to do for next year.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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broken f***ing record lol

it is too late to change ships midstream right now

we know the team is CAPABLE of playing proper "Pens hockey"

have to think they will when they need to?
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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We were never as bad as the losing streak. We were never as good as the surge in the standings we had in December and January either.

We have a good team, we have a shot at making a run. We also have some serious problems on the blueline, and our coach simply refuses to dress our 4th best blueliner. We're always starting one or two steps back because of the blueline we have constructed and the decisions the coaching staff makes regarding lines/pairings and scratches. Plain and simple, every game is an uphill battle. JJ is waiver-fodder. Schultz is probably worse. Petts ain't much better than that. I'd probably rather have Ruhwedel than any of those three, and I think it's clear as day Riikola should have a permanent spot in the lineup. It's bordering on absurdity now.

The bright side; We have the talent to overcome these issues if we get hot at the right time.
 
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Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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The chemistry is different, that has a lot to do with the down turn in our game. It's not the only reason, but it IMO is a big variable and significant contributor as to why.

If you look at our personnel it has changed dramatically in the last couple of months with players coming in and others going out. To expect that sort of thing to not catch up with us is kinda shortsighted.

That doesn't mean we can't shore up our fundamentals, or manage the puck better. JR kept saying how much he ''liked this team''. Well, for someone who ''liked this team'' he sure changed it rather decidedly.

Zucker being brought in for Jake made a ton of sense. But after that we really didn't need to do much else. I think he tried to overcompensate here a little.

Simon out, Kahun, out, ZAR out, Jake out, Zucker in, Marleau, Sheary, and Erod in. And it goes well beyond that. Now Bjugstad is back. Irregardless of each players respective talents that's an awful lot of turnover. Say what you will about the players out, but they all were pretty solid 200ft players who managed the puck well and could maintain possession.
 
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Tender Rip

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Plain and simple, every game is an uphill battle. JJ is waiver-fodder. Schultz is probably worse. Petts ain't much better than that. I'd probably rather have Ruhwedel than any of those three, and I think it's clear as day Riikola should have a permanent spot in the lineup. It's bordering on absurdity now.

The bright side; We have the talent to overcome these issues if we get hot at the right time.

Our biggest problem can be boiled down to Sidney Crosby having been a plus player 5 times (and a minus player 8 times) in the 21 games since coming back from injury. Those five times were blow out wins against Minnesota, Montreal, Toronto, Detroit and Buffalo.

When Geno was played as the nr. 1 in Sid's absence he was a plus player 14 times in those 26 games and a minus player in 7.

We are leaning on Sid to play like Sid and he is not. Bright sparks in some games notwithstanding, he hasn't done that since a week or two before his surgery. So, I assume it has to be that he just can't for physical reasons. It makes no sense to say that Sid doesn't care, but he IS the one among all our C's who is most guilty of lazy or ill advised plays since coming back.

We must cut back on Sid's time and responsibilities until he is physically capable of being Sid.

As an aside, a major reason as to being able to handle life without Sid was that Blueger's line played top or top 6 opposition to a draw or better most every night. We have a terrible record since ZAR went down, and while I cannot bring myself to miss him much individually, it is obvious that we really miss having that line be effective in closing down opponents better players. For better or worse, ZAR was part of that line being what it was.

For emphasis... Teddy Blueger has been a minus player in 5 of the 9 games since ZAR went down and a plus player in 0. In this period he has 0 points. In the 10 games that went before he was a plus player 5 times and a minus player 1 time. He had 3 goals and 6 points. This speaks to the depth that has seemingly disappeared.

I do not at all buy that this is about our D, even if some D-men seemingly have regressed and Schultz has been pants for the majority since coming back. Our D looks bad again because the forwards have reverted to last seasons poor support, proneness to turning the puck over in transition and in HD areas - and what appears to be questionable effort on many nights.
Some of this is due to roster changes/lack of familiarity. But while cause and effect can be a tricky one, it just wasn't the case when Sid wasn't there except once in a blue moon on back to back nights. Is that on 87... not necessarily, but his team mates thinking everything is easy because he is back cannot be an explanation anymore or else we suggest the entire team is comprised of idiots as obviously everything has proven to be not easy.


I don't have any easy fix and anything the sort of demotes Sid is virtually unrealistic, but given results as they are, I would ideally start by saying that Geno must be played as the number 1, and that on ZAR's return, we must try to reinstate that line as one getting tough match/ups, leaving Sid to get closer to being himself against the also-rans. That also makes it easier to play him with Sheary.

Those saying plus/minus is meaningless and I am according too much meaning to relatively small sample sizes.... OK, I am not disagreeing all that much. But coincidence or not, can you honestly tell me that it doesn't fit what you have been watching?
 

Slaaapshuter

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May 10, 2015
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After sleeping on it, I'm still irritated of the team deciding to not show up to play yesterday.
I would sit Jultz, that's pretty much it right now from an individual player perspective.
 
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ronduguayshair

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Oct 23, 2017
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What in the world does it mean to make “Malkin 0ur #1”?

First of all, when you have two generational centers you don’t have a second line you have two firsts.

Secondly, the opposing team picks who the #1 Line is in reality based on their defensive deployment.

Third, Malkin is already playing with our highest scoring winger. Do you want to put zucker on his line? Sid and zucker look good together. You want him to play with the top pairing defense? You’ll see a lot more of goal #2 from last nights game. Letang and Malkin are too offensively aggressive and too high stakes to play together. Malkin would have to play a lot more defense than he would want. Like having to backcheck a little harder like last game.

Saying “make Malkin our #1” is just another way of saying he’s my favorite player and I want that acknowledged while kicking a struggling Crosby.

it’s silly. It’s not based in reality. It’s fanboy. Favorite player forum.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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I just put 1000 Euros on Penguins dropping out in first round. I advice you to do the same.
You just lost 1000 Euros

Untitled.jpg
 

Ryder71

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What in the world does it mean to make “Malkin 0ur #1”?

First of all, when you have two generational centers you don’t have a second line you have two firsts.

Secondly, the opposing team picks who the #1 Line is in reality based on their defensive deployment.

Third, Malkin is already playing with our highest scoring winger. Do you want to put zucker on his line? Sid and zucker look good together. You want him to play with the top pairing defense? You’ll see a lot more of goal #2 from last nights game. Letang and Malkin are too offensively aggressive and too high stakes to play together. Malkin would have to play a lot more defense than he would want. Like having to backcheck a little harder like last game.

Saying “make Malkin our #1” is just another way of saying he’s my favorite player and I want that acknowledged while kicking a struggling Crosby.

it’s silly. It’s not based in reality. It’s fanboy. Favorite player forum.
The ''reality '' is that Geno's been better this season than Sid. The rest can be looked at to some degree as semantics I guess, but I see it as a valid point. Sid's been far less consistent. I do agree that both are indeed first line centers. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Currently though maybe Geno's 1 and Sid is 1A. Of course the evil Crosby fanbois might not like that.

If the Crosby Critters don't like it, well, they need to tell their boy to start on time! I'm very disappointed in him. But what's more disturbing to me was that after the SJ game he was very unhappy with himself. Yet three games later, here we are again.

Wonder what I like more, the Crosby Critters OR the Carpet Crawlers? The answer is so obvious! We've got to get in to get out.
 
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EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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Saying “make Malkin our #1” is just another way of saying he’s my favorite player and I want that acknowledged while kicking a struggling Crosby.

it’s silly. It’s not based in reality. It’s fanboy. Favorite player forum.

ScalyFavoriteBelugawhale-max-1mb.gif


fanboi complaints from Sid's biggest hanger-on?

the whole team looks like shit

Geno should have stayed #1 when they eased Sid back in from injury--that I still don't think he is okay from--but they didn't wanna ease him in so yeah discussing that set up now would be silly
 
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ronduguayshair

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So “Making Malkin our #1” simply means acknowledging he’s had a better season.

Talk about an agenda. The only people that care about this are silly internet posters. I can’t think of anything more waste of time to talk about. The Sid vs Malkin argument is so dumb and never really was a competition unless pull out the peaks and valleys as data.

It’s funny that when Sid struggles you don’t see people posting excuses like we do when Malkin struggles.
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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Your agenda for Sid is rather obvious as well. Let's not be hypocritical here.

As far as myself having an agenda here I don't. I hope they one up each other until retirement. That's a problem you want!

But when Geno makes piss poor decisions with the puck I acknowledged it and in fact have harped on it quite a bit. I'm evenhanded. That's what makes me the person that I am.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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Just dress Riikola, please. I don't care which one of the JJ, Petts and Schultz clownfiesta sits, he's better than all three of them right now.

Baby steps.
 

ronduguayshair

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Oct 23, 2017
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ScalyFavoriteBelugawhale-max-1mb.gif


fanboi complaints from Sid's biggest hanger-on?

the whole team looks like shit

Geno should have stayed #1 when they eased Sid back in from injury--that I still don't think he is okay from--but they didn't wanna ease him in so yeah discussing that set up now would be silly

what’s “stayed #1” mean?

Just because I hate a lot of Malkin’s game and the subsequent excuse making here does it automatically make me a Sid fanboy. Why does everything have to be black and white? Red or blue?

it’s a narrow way of looking at things.
 

2wayPlay

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Dec 25, 2018
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Sid playing like shit certainly hurts because he’s such a big part of this team. But let’s be honest, 90% of this team is playing like garbage right now. That’s tough to fix with a month of hockey left.
 

brewski420

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Sep 29, 2009
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First game I have seen in person in years and.... I left early. It was a pitiful performance!! Great to be back in the Burgh for the weekend but that game, which was to be the highlight, was embarrassing to watch. That is hard to achieve but they did it.
 
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Icarium

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Feb 16, 2010
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Just because I hate a lot of Malkin’s game and the subsequent excuse making here does it automatically make me a Sid fanboy.

Sure but never ever criticizing Sid makes you a fanboy.

I understand that the team can't play hard every night because the regular season is stupidly long but the nonchalance on the PP is unforgivable. You have so much talent and you not only don't score but even lose momentum. Again and again. I don't know what the solution is but it sure isn't putting Schultz on PP1 and playing the same way as before.

And pinching isn't the problem, pinching when the forward doesn't come back to cover the defenseman's spot is. We pinched all the time when our defense was doing great in December. You need to be smart about it, though. The Caps D has been pretty bad lately, there was no need to take stupid risks in the first period when you are down by one or two! We are playing dumb hockey, you can complain about the personnel all you want but the fact is we were getting results with a much more depleted line-up using the exact same tactics mere months ago - because the execution was so much better.
 

Pittsburgh1776

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Aug 9, 2010
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I have certain people on ignore for a reason, unfortunately the quoted posts can be seen. I guess I’ll address it.

We definitely don’t have two number one lines. And when 71 came back in 2016 from injury we didn’t have two number one lines. Malkin was a third line center and told to deal with leftovers, not negotiable.

Yes, I’d think about stacking his line. He also needs to be deployed in all the situations Sid currently is (key faceoffs, the go to at the end of games, defensive situations, hell I’d have him start games). There is a clear number one and it’s Sid, and if you can’t see it you’re just being obtuse.

I love Sid (and Mike Sullivan by the way), and I’ve never advocated this before. But with few exceptions, Malkin has been the far superior player offensively and defensively this year. I thought Sid would dominate when he got back. But with a month and a half to observe, he clearly can’t. Everything was readjusted except Rust to make room for Sid when he got back, and the lines are f***ed.

Just take the focus off Sid and let Malkin run with it. And no, I would not play Letang with Malkin, not because they are bad together but because Letang is a dumpster fire and Malkin should play with Marino to maximize his talent.

None of this will happen because Mike Sullivan is not capable of adjusting when he gets like this until he gets beaten over the head like a baseball bat with the reality. I think his bias for Crosby based on previous years is too great.
 
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