Salary Cap: Subban negotiations

[NobleSix]

They need to find him a D partner. Gorges isn't the guy and Markov isn't either. Beulieu's too green right now.

Agreed. We are sorely lacking a #2 defenseman that would give us a legitimate first pairing. Markov has become a 2nd pairing guy with age, which was expected. Gorges is not a top pairing guy by any standards. Beaulieu is still too young to be a #2.

 

[Genesis76]

Agreed. We are sorely lacking a #2 defenseman that would give us a legitimate first pairing. Markov has become a 2nd pairing guy with age, which was expected. Gorges is not a top pairing guy by any standards. Beaulieu is still too young to be a #2.

the guy has been doing amazing for his age and experience.. let him develop into a number 2 in the NHL, I say.

 

[Monctonscout]

Once the playoffs are done, I hope MB pulls out the big sales pitch to Subban.

-You love to play here, you are a folk hero to a province and a big part of the country.
-you will make big money regardless of the numbers
-playing in Montreal brings huge endorsements also
-if you want us to keep a contender around you, we need a deal that is cap friendly.
-we'll give you 8 years and will pay some of the money up front(bonuses)
-if you leave money on the table, that money will go towards having a strong team around you

Something like 7.5-7.6 over 8 years with 20 mil in roster bonuses the first 4 years and the last 2 years at 4 and 3 mil.

In a hard negotiation, Subban can probably get around 66-68 mil over 8 years.

 

[Brainiac]

the guy has been doing amazing for his age and experience.. let him develop into a number 2 in the NHL, I say.

My hope is that Beaulieu can bring some of what Markov brings. Markov is obviously declining, still very good, but we absolutely need to replace his puck moving ability.

If Beaulieu can bring some puck moving, obviously not at Markov's level, and complement with his physicality, it'll be fine.

But don't get too excited. The equation is not 'Beaulieu in' = 'better team'. The equation is 'Beaulieu in' - 'Markov declining' = ?

 

[redgrant]

Hope PK demands the max he deserves it.

 

[GoodKiwi]

Give the most electrifying player in the league a blank check. Not literally but Subban is getting paid and it better be by Montreal please!!!!!!!!!!

If he really wants give him 10 years 10 million per year signing bonus (10 million) for the next 5 years. I don't care what people say he deserves it

2014-15 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2015-16 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2016-17 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2017-18 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2018-19 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2019-20 $10,000,000
2020-21 $10,000,000
2021-22 $10,000,000
2022-23 $10,000,000
2023-24 $10,000,000

I wish some people here knew how CBA worked before posting...

 

[vokiel]

Give the most electrifying player in the league a blank check. Not literally but Subban is getting paid and it better be by Montreal please!!!!!!!!!!

If he really wants give him 10 years 10 million per year signing bonus (10 million) for the next 5 years. I don't care what people say he deserves it

2014-15 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2015-16 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2016-17 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2017-18 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2018-19 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2019-20 $10,000,000
2020-21 $10,000,000
2021-22 $10,000,000
2022-23 $10,000,000
2023-24 $10,000,000

I wish some people here knew how CBA worked before posting...

Ideally everyone would know, but you know that's just asking much for a public board on the net.

- Cap Recapture?
- Amount of years is capped at 8?

What else?

 

[GoodKiwi]

Ideally everyone would know, but you know that's just asking much for a public board on the net.

- Cap Recapture?
- Amount of years is capped at 8?

What else?

Well, I just wish people contributing to the topic with their opinion/idea knew what the rules were to make their post at least somewhat valid.

 

[vokiel]

Well, I just wish people contributing to the topic with their opinion/idea knew what the rules were to make their post at least somewhat valid.

I don't even know them all myself. Sometimes I think people just post their fantasy just see if more knowledgeable people on the board can smash it to pieces.

Edit: So strike 3 would be: that the annual salary (salary + bonuses) can't exceed 20% of the salary cap?

 

[Mr. Hab]

Price at $6.5/year right now...obviously will get a raise for his next contract.

So...how about $7.6 for Subban for 8yrs.
(#76 getting 7.6...perfect....or 8/year).

Price will then ask for that as well.
($7.5mil/year ballpark...up to 8).

I hope Price and Subban will not want every cent they can get, so we will have $$ left to get some key rental trade deadline players or a couple of UFA players to LIFT our team to the next level (Stanley Cup).

 

[vokiel]

Price at $6.5/year right now...obviously will get a raise for his next contract.

So...how about $7.6 for Subban for 8yrs.
(#76 getting 7.6...perfect....or 8/year).

Price will then ask for that as well.
($7.5mil/year ballpark...up to 8).

I hope Price and Subban will not want every cent they can get, so we will have $$ left to get some key rental trade deadline players or a couple of UFA players to LIFT our team to the next level (Stanley Cup).

You are not supposed to pay him in comparison of what his skill set is paid now. It's supposed to be in comparison of what it will be for the duration of the contract. In ~4 years, defense men like Subban will make far more than just 7.6 million. So he and his agent, would most likely reject this offer easily.

 

[Agnostic]

You are not supposed to pay him in comparison of what his skill set is paid now. It's supposed to be in comparison of what it will be for the duration of the contract. In ~4 years, defense men like Subban will make far more than just 7.6 million. So he and his agent, would most likely reject this offer easily.

The value also has to take into account his value over the next 2 years where he has less bargaining power . Offer sheets rarely go out to franchise players and an arbitrator may accept Karlsson as a good post lockout comparable. The bottom line is a 7.6 M deal seems like a fair one when all things are considered.

 

[Mr. Hab]

You are not supposed to pay him in comparison of what his skill set is paid now. It's supposed to be in comparison of what it will be for the duration of the contract. In ~4 years, defense men like Subban will make far more than just 7.6 million. So he and his agent, would most likely reject this offer easily.

Ah! (or arrrrgggghhh!!!), I just want Subban to take $7.6/year...hoping for this...hoping he'll take that so we still have money to iprove the rest of the team.

OR ELSE...

It'll always be Subban and Price doing everything and it may not be enough....they need help #$%^&*#@$%, and for that to happen...I'm hoping Subban and then Price will be in the 7.5 - 8/year bracket...this will still give us a chance to pick up 1-2 more star players....and I'm sure Subbie and Pricey know this. 7.5 - 8/year is more than enough for food, housing, a nice car, health insurance, vacations,etc.... how much do you ****ing need?!

If they get every cent they can get...other players will just have the ''let these guys do everything since they make so much''.

I want a team mentality...not a ''give the puck to the $10mil/year diva mega-star since he'll do everything for us to win and makes all the money...we don't need to do anything'' mentality.

 

[WillHabs12]

9,5M x 8 yrs = 76M

 

[99GoHabsGo99]

Hi Subban, Let's just make this quick. Here you go.

 

[Mr. Hab]

Hi Subban, Let's just make this quick. Here you go.

His greedy agent will sign it and deposit it!!
(that's the only thing I dislike about Subban...his agent...Don Meehan......#$%^&*@#%**@#$%).

 

[Plekaturtlenec]

Hopefully he doesn't play hardball to the point where he cripples the team moving forward. He's going to make a fortune off of endorsement deals as well, which I'm sure he's well aware of.

 

[Mr. Hab]

Hopefully he doesn't play hardball to the point where he cripples the team moving forward. He's going to make a fortune off of endorsement deals as well, which I'm sure he's well aware of.

Yup! Price is making 6.5 now...and when his contract is done he'll probably move up to the 7.5 - 8/year territory, especially if he keeps it up.

So...Subban (I'm hoping) doesn't ask more than in the 7.5 - 8mil territory.

Good for Subban and Price...good for management (able to get more players to make us seriously compete every year).

Yeah sure...Price and Subban can ask for 9, 10, 11, 12/year...each, BUT...c'mon! we need to pay the other players, as well!! or else Price and Subbi will have to do everything and more!! not that easy!! they need support...

I hope they will understand this...'cause 7.5 - 8mil/year is a lot of $$$$$.

 

[Lozela]

investing all that money on Subban is basically throwing it all down the toilet if you keep playing him with Gorges.

I've noticed that he never passes the puck to Subban when he's at the offensive blue line

3,9 Million to Gorges is too much

anything over 4 to Markov is too much

4,1 to Emelin is too much

 

[overlords]

investing all that money on Subban is basically throwing it all down the toilet if you keep playing him with Gorges.

I've noticed that he never passes the puck to Subban when he's at the offensive blue line

3,9 Million to Gorges is too much

anything over 4 to Markov is too much

4,1 to Emelin is too much

Seems like you might need to re-evaluate your standards. The cap is going up. everyone is going to get paid more.

 

[Monctonscout]

investing all that money on Subban is basically throwing it all down the toilet if you keep playing him with Gorges.

I've noticed that he never passes the puck to Subban when he's at the offensive blue line

3,9 Million to Gorges is too much

anything over 4 to Markov is too much

4,1 to Emelin is too much

What a ridiculous comment? Subban has played with Gores most of the last 2 years and his career has really taken off...how is that throwing anything in the toilet? beyond ridiculous

Gorges is a solid #3-4 d-man...if playing with him was an Issue Subban wouldn't have done what he did the last 2 years. Their styles fit perfectly together, Subban needs a non-flashy, simple, reliable stay at home d-man.

Gorges at 3.8 mil cap hit is not just justifyable, with the cap going up, it's very good value.

Emelin a bit less so than Gorges, but he's just coming back from an ACL injury so you can excuse a few rough patches this year. His physicality and intimidation has value. For 4 mil/year we could do a lot worse.

 

[Monctonscout]

Ugh.

Seriously folks.

Stop looking at the cap hit of players and look at the actual salary they get paid.

Shea Weber: $14M
Ryan Suter: $11M
Dion Phaneuf: $8M
Drew Doughty: $7M (will rise to $7.65M)
Duncan Keith: $7.6M
Erik Karlsson: $6.5M (will rise to $7.5M)
Kris Letang: $7.25M
Dan Girardi: $7M

But you refuse to pay Subban more than $8.5M?

Weber and Suter got huge deals as FA's from other teams, both deals are front loaded and extend for like 10-12 years. You can't compare that to what Subban will get in CAP hit on an RFA deal.

I could care less if Subban is #1 and makes 15 mil next year, but as a GM you try and sell him on the virtues of not taking up a ridiculous amount of cap space so the team can surround him with other very good players. The difference between a 10 mil cap hit and a 7.5 mil cap hit is room for Vanek(or another 6-7 mil player) at the deadline.

Give the most electrifying player in the league a blank check. Not literally but Subban is getting paid and it better be by Montreal please!!!!!!!!!!

If he really wants give him 10 years 10 million per year signing bonus (10 million) for the next 5 years. I don't care what people say he deserves it

2014-15 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2015-16 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2016-17 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2017-18 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2018-19 $10,000,000 + $10,000,000
2019-20 $10,000,000
2020-21 $10,000,000
2021-22 $10,000,000
2022-23 $10,000,000
2023-24 $10,000,000

What a great idea...that way we can be sure he is the only reason to come to the rink and the team can never have any cap space for other stars to play with him! Brilliant!

 

[Habsrule]

You guys have got to look at what other players have signed for post lockout. I will just use the Leafs as an example.

Phaneuf---7 years at 7 million a year.
Kessel---8 years at 8 million a year.


Yes I do know that I am just comparing to one franchise and a rival one at that. Subban is twice the defenceman that Phaneuf is and he means more to the Habs than what Kessel does to the Leafs.

With everyone knowing that the cap is going to go up and up and up every year he will cash in large. I am predicting Subban will sign for eight years at nine million a year.

With the cap at approx 71 million next year Subban will make approx 12.7% of the teams salary. That is a huge number. Now if the cap goes up lets say 4 million a year for the next seven seasons then the cap will be at 95 million. His contract will actually be a decent one then.

All of the agents and GMs know that the cap is going to go up. Star players will not be looking to sign for top rate at what the cap is at now, they will be looking for top rate of what the cap will be.

 

[Lozela]

What a ridiculous comment? Subban has played with Gores most of the last 2 years and his career has really taken off...how is that throwing anything in the toilet? beyond ridiculous

Gorges is a solid #3-4 d-man...if playing with him was an Issue Subban wouldn't have done what he did the last 2 years. Their styles fit perfectly together, Subban needs a non-flashy, simple, reliable stay at home d-man.

Gorges at 3.8 mil cap hit is not just justifyable, with the cap going up, it's very good value.

Emelin a bit less so than Gorges, but he's just coming back from an ACL injury so you can excuse a few rough patches this year. His physicality and intimidation has value. For 4 mil/year we could do a lot worse.

Subban could be doing way more if he was playing with someone better. Keith wouldn't have these incredible numbers if he was playing with Gorges.

MTL should really focus on having more def with a lot more speed than what they have right now.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

It's going to be interesting to see what Toews and Kane get. Whether they take lower salaries/terms and stay with the Hawks or just take the highest bidder route.

I think that if these two sign early and stay with the Hawks for less money than each potentially could have gotten, then that might impact negotiations with other star players such as Subban.

Or not