Strudwick and Gregor talk about Leadership on the team

[MaxR11]

Leadership starts with management, and coaches.
Then trickles down to players. Just like any organization, just like any business.

The values and integrity an organization has and upholds will be the values and integrity the players will be required to uphold if they wish to succeed in an organization.

When you have the worst management group in the NHL, it's easy to see it being the worst leadership group within the players.

This is true. I also like this article and what Holland had to say and some great quotes from Gregor and Moreau too. It really underlines the importance of leadership and culture in the room and in the overall organization....... A Winning Culture
I have more confidence the team, playoffs or not this year, will more likely be on their way to build better team culture and better leadership under Holland.

Holland:
What’s culture? To me, culture is people. It’s the people you bring in on the ice and off the ice.

“They care about the logo, and one of the things I tried to sell as the general manager of the Detroit Red Wings, was that you earn the jersey. You don’t just get to put the jersey on because you were a high draft pick. You have to go to work every day, and respect the jersey and play hard. We (Red Wings) didn’t have a very good year this year, but I think we were involved in almost 50 one goal games, we lost a lot of close games. The team played hard, the young kids were starting to take over the team and we were heading in the right direction.

“At the end of the day, what is culture? It is work ethic, its competing every day. The league is so hard to win you have to compete, your scouts have to compete, your managers have to compete, your coaches have to compete. You’re competing with 30 other organizations which are the best in the world, and you need to grind.

Life is tough, you got to grind, and you have to dig in. I have to come in and change the culture and they have given me complete authority to do so.

okay with blocking shots and scoring less points, and winning more draws.
“Young players don’t know that. They want to come in and do what they have always done. There is a process with young players, and you need veterans to show them the way. I’d like to think that’s what I can bring as a veteran manager, hire a coach who I believe is also going to bring that.

Gregor:
I love how he said his scouts, managers and coaches need to compete just as hard as the players. Everyone in the organization needs to have a winning attitude or you won’t win. And earning the jersey is something that has been lacking in Edmonton for a long time.

Winning more games will help improve the culture, but in order to win consistently, you need a strong foundation of principles and ideals (aka culture). Teams who win consistently don’t just stumble into it. They create a stable environment, with strong internal competition and the manager demands a lot of himself, his management team, scouts, coaches, trainers, analytics staff and of course the players. CULTURE!

Moreau:
“Usually you have your main leadership group, but you also have a secondary one, usually the younger players and that was Raffi, Jarrett Stoll and Matt Greene. Looking back, I think the organization undervalued their importance when they traded all of them away. It left a void in the middle of the team. We had older guys and then really young guys. Leadership comes in many forms. When I was young I was more in a lower tier, because I didn’t have enough experience to say things, but being there and showing up every day is important and you bonded with the other young guys because of it. Then as I got older I could be more vocal and take on more of a leadership role. Looking back I think it hurt or organization to lose that second tier group of leaders,” Moreau said.

 

[oobga]

More proof of Looch's terrible attitude and leadership

 

[Bangers]

To me, the moment where the team's culture went to **** was when Renney tried to make the young high end prospects earn their ice time and lost his job for it.

Having vets around like NHLPA shill/master-of-the-post-game-loss-interview Horcoff; last player on the ice/first player off it Hemsky; never take a dollar less Smyth; signs a retirement contract and then sucks Ference, and others of their ilk didn't help.

Let's face it, there's a reason why Crosby had Lemieux as a mentor even though he was one of the most mature, NHL ready prospects in the history of the game. Players need to learn to manage their schedules, diets, rest, training, dealings with the media, etc. right, and if the team's leaders can't get that right, it spreads through the team like a virus.

Lucic was a strange one. He was viewed as being a high character player before he signed and did well at first, but something went wrong somewhere. Maybe he was like Moreau and couldn't face the fact that he was losing his game and reacted badly.

Still, the team is definitely looking better (from the outside) now. For better or worse, this is now McDrai, Nuge, Klefbom, Nurse and Larsson's team.

 

[Aerchon]

This is true. I also like this article and what Holland had to say and some great quotes from Gregor and Moreau too. It really underlines the importance of leadership and culture in the room and in the overall organization....... A Winning Culture
I have more confidence the team, playoffs or not this year, will more likely be on their way to build better team culture and better leadership under Holland.

Holland:
What’s culture? To me, culture is people. It’s the people you bring in on the ice and off the ice.

“They care about the logo, and one of the things I tried to sell as the general manager of the Detroit Red Wings, was that you earn the jersey. You don’t just get to put the jersey on because you were a high draft pick. You have to go to work every day, and respect the jersey and play hard. We (Red Wings) didn’t have a very good year this year, but I think we were involved in almost 50 one goal games, we lost a lot of close games. The team played hard, the young kids were starting to take over the team and we were heading in the right direction.

“At the end of the day, what is culture? It is work ethic, its competing every day. The league is so hard to win you have to compete, your scouts have to compete, your managers have to compete, your coaches have to compete. You’re competing with 30 other organizations which are the best in the world, and you need to grind.

Life is tough, you got to grind, and you have to dig in. I have to come in and change the culture and they have given me complete authority to do so.

okay with blocking shots and scoring less points, and winning more draws.
“Young players don’t know that. They want to come in and do what they have always done. There is a process with young players, and you need veterans to show them the way. I’d like to think that’s what I can bring as a veteran manager, hire a coach who I believe is also going to bring that.

Gregor:
I love how he said his scouts, managers and coaches need to compete just as hard as the players. Everyone in the organization needs to have a winning attitude or you won’t win. And earning the jersey is something that has been lacking in Edmonton for a long time.

Winning more games will help improve the culture, but in order to win consistently, you need a strong foundation of principles and ideals (aka culture). Teams who win consistently don’t just stumble into it. They create a stable environment, with strong internal competition and the manager demands a lot of himself, his management team, scouts, coaches, trainers, analytics staff and of course the players. CULTURE!

Moreau:
“Usually you have your main leadership group, but you also have a secondary one, usually the younger players and that was Raffi, Jarrett Stoll and Matt Greene. Looking back, I think the organization undervalued their importance when they traded all of them away. It left a void in the middle of the team. We had older guys and then really young guys. Leadership comes in many forms. When I was young I was more in a lower tier, because I didn’t have enough experience to say things, but being there and showing up every day is important and you bonded with the other young guys because of it. Then as I got older I could be more vocal and take on more of a leadership role. Looking back I think it hurt or organization to lose that second tier group of leaders,” Moreau said.

I certainly like that Holland quote. Can't say I've been impressed with any moves he has made but if he manages to change the culture he will be worth it.

 

[MaxR11]

To me, the moment where the team's culture went to **** was when Renney tried to make the young high end prospects earn their ice time and lost his job for it.

Let's face it, there's a reason why Crosby had Lemieux as a mentor even though he was one of the most mature, NHL ready prospects in the history of the game. Players need to learn to manage their schedules, diets, rest, training, dealings with the media, etc. right, and if the team's leaders can't get that right, it spreads through the team like a virus.

Agree. That was part of the culture.... to let the "young saviours" have free reign. It was a stupid stupid move by the organization not to set guys like Hall etc straight immediately. Really, who knows how things would have developed and turned out if the youngsters fell in line. Ference was convinced it was the biggest issue of why the team was in pertpetual suckage. I tend to agree.

Bang on, the bold. So many fans think it's so easy for all highly skilled players to transition to the NHL and to let their talent carry them. That is so wrong. These are kids and human beings that need that stable and nurturing/mentoring environment to give them the best chance to succeed. Not everyone is uber talented and driven to the same degree as a Crosby or Connor. And yes, even Croz probably benefited big time from guys like Mario, Gonchar, Recchi, Leclair, Palffy etc. on and off the ice. Wasn't Croz staying with Mario and his family for the first year or two? That goes a loooong way. Look at Pooly probably lived on his own, hitching rides from strange Edmontonians back to his downtown condo.

 

[MaxR11]

I certainly like that Holland quote. Can't say I've been impressed with any moves he has made but if he manages to change the culture he will be worth it.

Honestly if he can change the culture it will go a much longer way (especially the long term success of the franchise) than adding immediate talent. He's trying to add little bits and pieces (Sheahan, Neal etc) that might fit into the new culture he's building. I'm sure he's had or will have a stern presentation to the players, coaches etc about what he will expect from here on in. Will take time but i'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

I’m really glad we replaced Looch’s bad attitude with Neal’s veteran leadership.

 

[Sugi21]

Tippet said as well he is going to make every player accountable and responsible on the ice! Not many coaches here wanted or were told not to mess with the star players but if Tippet has to make McDrai/RNH/Nurse/Larsson eat some humble pie from time to time it’s only better for them in the long run!

 

[MaxR11]

I also think we can't overlook the veteran presence Mike Smith is going to bring into the room. From all reports, he's pretty well liked as a teammate and is vocal. I think, on the bench, in the room or on the ice he will help in relaying how the team should better play in front of whoever's in the net. I think some of the better goalies usually do a good job at consistently communicating what he wants from his defenders in the D zone... what he wants them to do so he feels more comfortable and knows what to expect as plays develop and can see the puck etc.

 

[bucks_oil]

This is true. I also like this article and what Holland had to say and some great quotes from Gregor and Moreau too. It really underlines the importance of leadership and culture in the room and in the overall organization....... A Winning Culture
I have more confidence the team, playoffs or not this year, will more likely be on their way to build better team culture and better leadership under Holland.

Holland:
What’s culture? To me, culture is people. It’s the people you bring in on the ice and off the ice.

“They care about the logo, and one of the things I tried to sell as the general manager of the Detroit Red Wings, was that you earn the jersey. You don’t just get to put the jersey on because you were a high draft pick. You have to go to work every day, and respect the jersey and play hard. We (Red Wings) didn’t have a very good year this year, but I think we were involved in almost 50 one goal games, we lost a lot of close games. The team played hard, the young kids were starting to take over the team and we were heading in the right direction.

“At the end of the day, what is culture? It is work ethic, its competing every day. The league is so hard to win you have to compete, your scouts have to compete, your managers have to compete, your coaches have to compete. You’re competing with 30 other organizations which are the best in the world, and you need to grind.

Life is tough, you got to grind, and you have to dig in. I have to come in and change the culture and they have given me complete authority to do so.

okay with blocking shots and scoring less points, and winning more draws.
“Young players don’t know that. They want to come in and do what they have always done. There is a process with young players, and you need veterans to show them the way. I’d like to think that’s what I can bring as a veteran manager, hire a coach who I believe is also going to bring that.

Gregor:
I love how he said his scouts, managers and coaches need to compete just as hard as the players. Everyone in the organization needs to have a winning attitude or you won’t win. And earning the jersey is something that has been lacking in Edmonton for a long time.

Winning more games will help improve the culture, but in order to win consistently, you need a strong foundation of principles and ideals (aka culture). Teams who win consistently don’t just stumble into it. They create a stable environment, with strong internal competition and the manager demands a lot of himself, his management team, scouts, coaches, trainers, analytics staff and of course the players. CULTURE!

Moreau:
“Usually you have your main leadership group, but you also have a secondary one, usually the younger players and that was Raffi, Jarrett Stoll and Matt Greene. Looking back, I think the organization undervalued their importance when they traded all of them away. It left a void in the middle of the team. We had older guys and then really young guys. Leadership comes in many forms. When I was young I was more in a lower tier, because I didn’t have enough experience to say things, but being there and showing up every day is important and you bonded with the other young guys because of it. Then as I got older I could be more vocal and take on more of a leadership role. Looking back I think it hurt or organization to lose that second tier group of leaders,” Moreau said.

Thanks for sharing. I really appreciated the comments from Moreau. I know he was a villain when he left the team, but he raises such a good point which alludes to what happened there... as he and Horc (who I do think was an important part of that 2006 leadership structure) started to decline, the "middle guys" as he describes were also gone (and went on to be good leaders in LA)... with that gap created, it caused a schism in the room between the guys who were old and need to pass the torch, and the young guys who just weren't ready (mature enough... no fault of their own) to accept it.

In a losing environment like that... it's no wonder a guy like Moreau, who got close but never one a cup... would have become the sour old dog that the kids couldn't relate to. He then had to go, so that Horcoff could stick around and mend fences with a softer touch... but was he gonna be able to do that while his own skills deteriorated... maybe not being the uber alpha you can't speak back to? I wonder.

 

[dustrock]

Athletes talk about culture and leadership enough that I think the large majority of them must believe in it. I don't think I believe it though.

Every time I hear them describe leaders like Crosby and Chara and Toews, it's that they are super talented, don't get mad, not real talky, super professional, put in the work and expect everyone else to do it too. So, basically: lead by example. I think it's more: work hard, have a great team, make the playoffs.

As I always say, did Toews win 3 Cups because he's a great leader, or is a Toews a great leader because he won 3 Cups?

I would not be surprised that captains are seen as great leaders when their teams are good, and not great leaders when their teams are garbage.

If someone can give me an example of a captain's leadership turning a season around, I'd be glad to read it. Or a crappy team that had a captain everyone loved but they stayed crappy (oh, it's the Oilers).

Crosby and Toews and Kopitar and whoever else didn't stop their teams from having crappy years where they didn't make the playoffs. Yet those guys never had their leadership skills re-assessed.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Athletes talk about culture and leadership enough that I think the large majority of them must believe in it. I don't think I believe it though.

Every time I hear them describe leaders like Crosby and Chara and Toews, it's that they are super talented, don't get mad, not real talky, super professional, put in the work and expect everyone else to do it too. So, basically: lead by example. I think it's more: work hard, have a great team, make the playoffs.

As I always say, did Toews win 3 Cups because he's a great leader, or is a Toews a great leader because he won 3 Cups?

I would not be surprised that captains are seen as great leaders when their teams are good, and not great leaders when their teams are garbage.

If someone can give me an example of a captain's leadership turning a season around, I'd be glad to read it. Or a crappy team that had a captain everyone loved but they stayed crappy (oh, it's the Oilers).

Crosby and Toews and Kopitar and whoever else didn't stop their teams from having crappy years where they didn't make the playoffs. Yet those guys never had their leadership skills re-assessed.

To me, this is the reason why McDavid is the right captain for this team:
https://www.tsn.ca/oilers-reboot-with-focus-on-scoring-goals-1.375808


That is exactly what leaders are supposed to do.

 

[guymez]

To me, this is the reason why McDavid is the right captain for this team:
https://www.tsn.ca/oilers-reboot-with-focus-on-scoring-goals-1.375808


That is exactly what leaders are supposed to do.

Unless i am missing something I dont think this was ever about IF Connor was the right captain. I dont think there is any argument about that.

I see it more about if Conner has the best supporting cast around him which IMO includes capable high end Vets.

 

[BudBundy]

They talk about the importance of age and experience in leadership (effect on culture) in this section of the Gregor show and how the Oil may be in a dicey situation here now. Struds talks about how there's not much help there now to help the young leadership core to develop their leadership skills. Partly just knowing what to say and how and when to say things. I like how he said Khabby said to him that he liked having a guy like Struds in front of him because he makes simple plays and Khabby always knows where the puck is coming from when struds is out there. Can show you how advanced stats etc don't show the full pic of how effective players can be.


they talk about it in the first 15-20 mins or so starting at about the 45-50 second mark.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/audio/the-jason-gregor-show-sept-4-hour-2-1.1360595

 

[MaxR11]

Thanks for sharing. I really appreciated the comments from Moreau. I know he was a villain when he left the team, but he raises such a good point which alludes to what happened there... as he and Horc (who I do think was an important part of that 2006 leadership structure) started to decline, the "middle guys" as he describes were also gone (and went on to be good leaders in LA)... with that gap created, it caused a schism in the room between the guys who were old and need to pass the torch, and the young guys who just weren't ready (mature enough... no fault of their own) to accept it.

In a losing environment like that... it's no wonder a guy like Moreau, who got close but never one a cup... would have become the sour old dog that the kids couldn't relate to. He then had to go, so that Horcoff could stick around and mend fences with a softer touch... but was he gonna be able to do that while his own skills deteriorated... maybe not being the uber alpha you can't speak back to? I wonder.

Yes, I like the Moreau quote too. It really emphasizes the fact that it's not all about having a singular good leader. It's leadership by group. You need that stable presence in the room. Not even a Messier in his prime could singularily lead a group by himself without other leader types in the room that can help him.

I sincerely hope that the new culture that Holland and Tips wants to bring in, combined with an older wiser young core (Connor, Nuge, Drai, Nurse), and the potentially underrated leadership of Neal, Smith and Sheahan will really help get us started on the right track. I think the subtraction of Pooly (and maybe Looch) might be an overall positive for the room too.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Unless i am missing something I dont think this was ever about IF Connor was the right captain. I dont think there is any argument about that.

I see it more about if Conner has the best supporting cast around him which IMO includes capable high end Vets.

Yaya,

I meant in terms of what kind of culture we'd want to build on.


We should have a team where the PP guys skate to the same side Connor is on.

 

[MaxR11]

If someone can give me an example of a captain's leadership turning a season around, I'd be glad to read it. Or a crappy team that had a captain everyone loved but they stayed crappy (oh, it's the Oilers).

C

The point is though it's not about the great leadership ability of one man. Everyone needs help and support. Leadership on a team comes from a collection of leadership/veteran types in the room. Too often on this team since 2010 or so the amount of young players breaking in, players who aren't exactly leaders or quality vets have dominated the roster and you might only have a few actual leaders. It's hard to change the culture this way. It might work if you have great buy in from the followers but if not you'll get what we had here from 2010-2016 or so.

As you say athletes definitely believe in leadership and culture and there is good reason. It's really hard to explain until you experienced it at some level how important that stable, hard working, nurturing, "have each other's backs" etc environment is in getting everyone to play better as a unit AND to get the best INDIVIDUAL performances out of each player. It is vital for the confidence and buy in of a player to be in that right cultural environment and leadership is huge in creating that right environment.

 

[MaxR11]

Yaya,

I meant in terms of what kind of culture we'd want to build on.


We should have a team where the PP guys skate to the same side Connor is on.

totally agree, i loved that connor did that. and it spoke volumes about the other guys who bet on the PK. doesn't matter if the PK has an overwhelming advantage of winning you support your fellow PP team. that's a little glimpse into the culture that they had. seriously, how would you feel as that other pp going into the drill when your fellow pp unit bets against you? it may seem like a small insignificant thing but i think, like i said, it gives a glimpse into what the room was like. maybe not a bad culture but likely not a good one.

 

[dustrock]

As you say athletes definitely believe in leadership and culture and there is good reason. It's really hard to explain until you experienced it at some level how important that stable, hard working, nurturing, "have each other's backs" etc environment is in getting everyone to play better as a unit AND to get the best INDIVIDUAL performances out of each player. It is vital for the confidence and buy in of a player to be in that right cultural environment and leadership is huge in creating that right environment.

One wonders if it' s so hard to explain because it's imaginary.

And people talk about "we need the veteran but not old players because divide between young and old". No dumbo, you need the veteran but not old players because they are experienced and in their primes and give an ON-ICE advantage.

The Oilers were garbage because their only good players were rookies, not because Horcoff and Moreau were too old to reach the young players.

 

[MaxR11]

One wonders if it' s so hard to explain because it's imaginary.

And people talk about "we need the veteran but not old players because divide between young and old". No dumbo, you need the veteran but not old players because they are experienced and in their primes and give an ON-ICE advantage.

The Oilers were garbage because their only good players were rookies, not because Horcoff and Moreau were too old to reach the young players.

I don't think it's that black and white and simple. For example, Hendricks was not a good player, but he was getting a huge amount of credit with helping Connor that one year we made the playoffs. I truly think it IS possible for "older" players to come in and maybe not have the game they used to but whole heartedly accept their third or fourth line role and bring in great leadership and cultural change to the room. It's all about how the other players view him/them... and whether they want to buy in. Do the coaches and GM have a huge role to play in ensuring buy in?... absolutely. It's a complex and every changing organism, culture. It's hard to pigeon hole it into black and white contexts.

It's not imaginary... just one of those more intangible aspects of life. I'm sure we can all relate to our own examples of these "intangible" things in our daily lives whether it be work or family life or relationships etc.

 

[MaxR11]

And to add to the point about it not being black and white and a changing organism, it had been said that looch was a good leader in his first year when he was relatively not too bad as far as his play (though i thought he was a bit underwhelming despite his points). He was credited with definitely helping in the leadership department in 2016-17. Then his game fell to s*** the following year partly i think due to the game passing him by and lesser known injuries along with one big blow up, which i'm not supposed to say here, with him and potentially one or two of his teammates (that i heard from reliable sources). These things most certainly affected his status as a leader and his own confidence. he was more worried about trying to get his game back than lead. So ya, he was very likely a good leader at one point and a bad one at another point because of said circumstances.

Just shows that you need a collective group of leaders to have that culture more stable and not rely on a few leader types.

 

[Spawn]

reliable sources lol

 

[dustrock]

I'm sure there are super cool guys like Hendricks who are fun in the locker room. I can see guys like him keeping it light when you're on a grueling road trip.

I just think it's a lot easier to buy in when you have a good team. We all have to work with people we don't like, but if things aren't going well, then all of the differences or rivalries get exaggerated.

I mean your point with Lucic just proves my point. He was said to be a great leader when he came to the Oilers and they made the playoffs. Then the team blows for the next couple of years and suddenly maybe he's not as great in the room as we all thought.

 

[BudBundy]

And to add to the point about it not being black and white and a changing organism, it had been said that looch was a good leader in his first year when he was relatively not too bad as far as his play (though i thought he was a bit underwhelming despite his points). He was credited with definitely helping in the leadership department in 2016-17. Then his game fell to s*** the following year partly i think due to the game passing him by and lesser known injuries along with one big blow up, which i'm not supposed to say here, with him and potentially one or two of his teammates (that i heard from reliable sources). These things most certainly affected his status as a leader and his own confidence. he was more worried about trying to get his game back than lead. So ya, he was very likely a good leader at one point and a bad one at another point because of said circumstances.

Just shows that you need a collective group of leaders to have that culture more stable and not rely on a few leader types.

Bla blah blah wake me up if you ever start a post about the Oilers having enough guys who can play hockey. Leadership might put a good team over the top, but we are a decade plus into not having the horses to get us out of the gutter.

 

[Supermassive]

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