Strudwick and Gregor talk about Leadership on the team

MaxR11

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They talk about the importance of age and experience in leadership (effect on culture) in this section of the Gregor show and how the Oil may be in a dicey situation here now. Struds talks about how there's not much help there now to help the young leadership core to develop their leadership skills. Partly just knowing what to say and how and when to say things. I like how he said Khabby said to him that he liked having a guy like Struds in front of him because he makes simple plays and Khabby always knows where the puck is coming from when struds is out there. Can show you how advanced stats etc don't show the full pic of how effective players can be.


they talk about it in the first 15-20 mins or so starting at about the 45-50 second mark.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/audio/the-jason-gregor-show-sept-4-hour-2-1.1360595
 

ChaoticOrange

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Age is overrated as far as leadership is concerned.

You want to tell me we have the wrong mix, or that players arent ready, or the room isn't vocal/upbeat enough and misses its Hendricks type bubbly personality, or whatever else the case may be, fine, but younger men can be leaders just as easily as older guys cannot be.

If you want to say the Oilers need more experience in the form of guys that can actually contribute then I'm all for it but the older "leadership" group has been letting this team down since the likes of Horcoff and Moreau, and the last couple years are absolutely no exception.
 

joestevens29

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Think it was Moreau on 1260 couple months ago that lead to more talk about this. He was saying one issue they had back when he was captain was guys to help break the age cap. They had young and old, but no in between. It apparently lead to the team not exactly being a team as a whole off the ice.
 

T-Funk

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This just in: washed up khabby prefers washed up strudwick playing d.
 

Beerfish

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Any 'leader' has to be able to play and be good, useful player and not for like a year before they fall off a cliff.
 

Arpeggio

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Seems to me that most of the older "veteran leadership" type of guys the Oilers bring in end up being the whiniest of the bunch. Belanger was an asshole, Jokinen was useless, Ference complained about the young guys all the time, Lucic didn't want to be a leader six months after saying he wanted to be a leader, Visnovsky didn't want to be here. I'm sure there's more I missed. Leadership will magically improve once the team starts winning some games.
 

guymez

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Outside of @ChaoticOrange its interesting to me how there is no distinction at all between age and experience for most posters.
Contrary to what people want to believe experience/leadership is critical.

Of course not all older players (ie Lucic) are going to be strong leaders and be able to contribute just like not all younger players are going to help a team win.
It goes without saying that there has to be a certain level of discernment with any player you bring in.
 
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NeverForget06

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Neal has been to just as many cup finals as Lucic, played basically the same amount of playoff games. Hasn't come in here with the same talk Lucic did about being a leader blah blah blah.

It's good to have veteran guys as part of the leadership core for sure, but as has been said here before, outside of Hendricks (and maybe Letestu), the Oilers haven't really been able to find those type of guys.

Age and experience are certainly good characteristics for a leader..... but having them does not automatically make you one. It can also do just the opposite, when veteran guys don't want to go along with what the rest of the young team is trying to do.
 

replacement

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Seems to me that most of the older "veteran leadership" type of guys the Oilers bring in end up being the whiniest of the bunch. Belanger was an *******, Jokinen was useless, Ference complained about the young guys all the time, Lucic didn't want to be a leader six months after saying he wanted to be a leader, Visnovsky didn't want to be here. I'm sure there's more I missed. Leadership will magically improve once the team starts winning some games.

Ethan Moreau, Ales Hemsky. A lot of guys who put in the time with the Oilers had something to say about the young kids.

It's clear there was an issue in the past. Everybody knows, it's no secret what went on in the Hall era. Guys are just telling it like it was, seems pretty whiny to get all upset that they're talking about their actual experiences.
 

Jumptheshark

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Outside of @ChaoticOrange its interesting to me how there is no distinction at all between age and experience for most posters.
Contrary to what people want to believe experience/leadership is critical.

Of course not all older players (ie Lucic) are going to be strong leaders and be able to contribute just like not all younger players are going to help a team win.
It goes without saying that there has to be a certain level of discernment with any player you bring in.


Most of the guys brought in this off season are all over 25 and have experience at different levels. Also, guys like Nurse, McDavid and Leon are now getting to the level of being vets themselves
 
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guymez

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Most of the guys brought in this off season are all over 25 and have experience at different levels. Also, guys like Nurse, McDavid and Leon are now getting to the level of being vets themselves

That said I wouldnt have any problem with Marleau on a cheap 1 year deal.
 

Arpeggio

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Ethan Moreau, Ales Hemsky. A lot of guys who put in the time with the Oilers had something to say about the young kids.

It's clear there was an issue in the past. Everybody knows, it's no secret what went on in the Hall era. Guys are just telling it like it was, seems pretty whiny to get all upset that they're talking about their actual experiences.

Most of these guys were brought in specifically to lead the young guys. I'm just saying if we're talking about leadership, maybe we shouldn't be looking at the veterans whining about the youths to lead. The guys that could actually lead could figure out how to get the team working as a cohesive unit, as opposed to complaining about how the team is split.

I'm not absolving Hall and co of being bad teammates. I find it ironic though that the people who we've heard the most from about the lack of leadership on the team were those that were expected to pick up some of that slack.
 

CornKicker

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the whole "young leadership doesnt work" is total BS. If im a player on the oilers im looking at Mcdavid and going where ever he goes, if he says do this i do that because at the end of the day 1. he is the best player in the league and 2. he is going to be here longer than the coach/gm or anyone else. it is his team.
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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Outside of @ChaoticOrange its interesting to me how there is no distinction at all between age and experience for most posters.
Contrary to what people want to believe experience/leadership is critical.

Of course not all older players (ie Lucic) are going to be strong leaders and be able to contribute just like not all younger players are going to help a team win.
It goes without saying that there has to be a certain level of discernment with any player you bring in.

Bingo. It's funny how a lot who posted pertaining the subject sloughs off a guy like Strudwick, a guy who's been there and seen it in the room. Somehow they believe they know better than him? Let's face it, struds opinion on this type of thing would hold way more water than any poster on this board.

No doubt, Connor's dominance and carrying the team on his shoulders can be inspirational for players on the bench but leadership is way more than just that. It's about a lot of things Struds mention about knowing what to say to certain players, when to say it, how to go about saying it to get the maximum benefits etc. How to be a leader off the ice and be able to involve everyone in team functions etc. It's not all on ice or in the room. If all players feel invovled in the team off the ice they will feel more a part of it on the ice. Guys will have each other's back better. You need those guys, vets, who've been there, seen other good vets do it, to help Connor, Drai, Nurse, Nuge etc develop these leadership skills.

The young core might figure it out on their own and develop their own culture but i think the best course is/was to bring in good vets (who can play too) to aid Connor etc in developing the culture. Unfortunately Looch didn't work and he had his own personal struggles. I was never a fan of that signing but i think he did help a bit with that leadership in his first year here when his game was still somewhat ok. Once he took a dive his confidence etc went and it's hard to lead when that happens.

Having guys like Justin Williams and guys like him (preferably younger) etc would have really helped us develop our leadership and culture. Connor may be great and will become a great leader but it's A LOT of work to properly lead a group of players on and off ice and develop the culture. It's a lot on a shoulders of one young guy no matter how much of a phenom he is. It would be beneficial for him to have more vet help. Hopefully Neal can kind of fill those shoes a bit. I don't know what kind of a person/player Sheahan is but maybe he could help too? Sometimes it's those lesser know, "no name" guys that make a huge difference in the culture of the room. I think Hendricks was kind of that guy a few years ago for this room.
 
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MaxR11

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Most of these guys were brought in specifically to lead the young guys. I'm just saying if we're talking about leadership, maybe we shouldn't be looking at the veterans whining about the youths to lead. The guys that could actually lead could figure out how to get the team working as a cohesive unit, as opposed to complaining about how the team is split.

I'm not absolving Hall and co of being bad teammates. I find it ironic though that the people who we've heard the most from about the lack of leadership on the team were those that were expected to pick up some of that slack.

Hard to lead if certain young players don't want to listen. That was one of the bigger complaints about a couple of those prominent young stars. I think it was just part of the organizational culture to give the young stars too much free reign and power... i think it made it hard for the vets who were brought in to lead to actually do their jobs properly. I would guess guys like Hall were too arrogant and figure why do i have to listen to this 6th D man or 3rd line player plug etc Bad attitude. Leads to divisiveness in the room. Wasn't that the case in the early 2010s? Lots of blame to go around. Young players, organizational execs and maybe coaches, and likely the vets have a part to play.... maybe the vets demanded the respect and when they didn't get it got confrontational and that path did not work. point is proper leadership and having guys united is huge in the success of a team.
 

MaxR11

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Most of the guys brought in this off season are all over 25 and have experience at different levels. Also, guys like Nurse, McDavid and Leon are now getting to the level of being vets themselves

they're getting to be experienced vets age but have they learned anything about being a good leader in their early 20s? i question that. i think they might not have had much good tutoring in these aspects. most of what the've known is losing and questionable culture in the room. can they develop their own good leadership abilities? maybe but they've not had the best experience in the past years to give them those skills.
 

LTIR

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the whole "young leadership doesnt work" is total BS. If im a player on the oilers im looking at Mcdavid and going where ever he goes, if he says do this i do that because at the end of the day 1. he is the best player in the league and 2. he is going to be here longer than the coach/gm or anyone else. it is his team.
Experience also counts for a lot as well as leadership abilities. Being the most skilled doesn't mean you can lead a side.
Naming McDavid captain this early was a mistake. Not surrounding him with vets was a bigger one.

Lucic was suppose to be it but he himself seemingly needs sheltering.
 

LTIR

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Experience and leadership are two different things. Experience one gains over time. Leadership is a trait you have or you don’t. Age may get you experience but it doesn’t make one a leader. However experience can make a leader better.
A 20year old leader in CHL is great but might not be ideal in NHL. Imagining Marleau or Tavares giving his team heck after a loss is much easier than McDavid rallying a squad full of grown experienced men
 

MaxR11

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Experience and leadership are two different things. Experience one gains over time. Leadership is a trait you have or you don’t. Age may get you experience but it doesn’t make one a leader. However experience can make a leader better.

though i would argue sometimes leaders can be developed. sometimes guys don't realize at a young age that they do have some natural leadership abilities and when they get older and have experienced being around great leaders some of it rubs off on them and they start to feel more confident at an older age (say 27) to speak up and take the younger guys under their wing a bit. it's encompasses a lot of little things like checkin in on young guys and bringning them to they're home and habing the wife make a nice home cooked meal for them and talking to them etc etc etc. taking a bit of stress off and having them more focused on hockey. i think Neal said it helped him to be able to go over to one of the vet D man's house and have breakfast everyday when he was younger in pittsburgh. just a lot of little things add up. one doesn't have to be the alpha leader or penultimate leader. just a bunch of vets who've been there and know what to do and what the youngsters are going through and helping them here and there goes a long way. like wasn't pooly essentially left to his own devices? how did that go for him?
 

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A 20year old leader in CHL is great but might not be ideal in NHL. Imagining Marleau or Tavares giving his team heck after a loss is much easier than McDavid rallying a squad full of grown experienced men

Giving a team heck after a loss is not a great example of leadership.

Experience is everymans teacher. Leaders benefit from experience as all should. Applying that experience effectively as a leader is the benefit older leaders have gained but it doesn’t preclude a young leader from being an effective or good leader.

In hockey Gabe Landeskog comes to mind.
 
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