Strange trophy voting through NHL history

[Nick Hansen]

So I was looking at Teemu Selänne and his great career at hockey-reference.

Teemu Selanne Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Says he received votes for the Selke in 06/07 and 10/11. Just one vote but still. I guess he might've gotten more responsible as he got mature and more experienced, but who could ever believe he was a Selke-calibre player?

Any other examples like this?

Click to read more...

 

[Michael Farkas]

A ton, particularly with the Selke...Jagr has some, Ovechkin has some...it's a mess...

 

[Spirit of 67]

So I was looking at Teemu Selänne and his great career at hockey-reference.

Teemu Selanne Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Says he received votes for the Selke in 06/07 and 10/11. Just one vote but still. I guess he might've gotten more responsible as he got mature and more experienced, but who could ever believe he was a Selke-calibre player?

Any other examples like this?

Brett Hull got a Selke vote in '03.

 

[GlitchMarner]

A ton, particularly with the Selke...Jagr has some, Ovechkin has some...it's a mess...

With Ovechkin, he was such a tremendous possession player during his peak seasons that he exerted a positive defensive impact even if he wasn't particularly good at defense in the traditional sense. One season (2010) he was +45 on a team that had guys like Schultz and Jurcina on defense. In '09-'10, Selke voters may have looked at his roster and plus/minus and thought, "hey, this guy has to be good defensively!"

Generally, he's believed to have improved defensively, but all his Selke votes came between '07 and '10. He hasn't gotten a Selke vote since his peak ended.

 

[bobholly39]

Not sure if youre looking for random votes or actual winners that make no sense. If its the latter take ur pick from

Lemieux losing hart in 89
Lemieux winning lindsay in 86
Gretzky losing out smythe in 83, 84 and 87

 

[Nick Hansen]

Not sure if youre looking for random votes or actual winners that make no sense. If its the latter take ur pick from

Lemieux losing hart in 89
Lemieux winning lindsay in 86
Gretzky losing out smythe in 83, 84 and 87

We could do a bit of both, I think.

Mario Lemieux got a vote for the Selke in 96/97.

What was the argument for Gretzky winning in 89? New team, sure, but Mario hardly played on a great team himself.

 

[JackSlater]

In any award voting where the ballot includes five or even three choices I would expect to find a few terrible choices pretty regularly. Even more when the Selke seems to be so poorly grasped by the voters, to the point where they seem to actively disregard the description of the award these days. Taking a look at Selke votes for this past season, Tarasenko had a vote. McDavid had a vote. Hyman had two votes. It's nonsense.

 

[Michael Farkas]

With Ovechkin, he was such a tremendous possession player during his peak seasons that he exerted a positive defensive impact even if he wasn't particularly good at defense in the traditional sense. One season (2010) he was +45 on a team that had guys like Schultz and Jurcina on defense. In '09-'10, Selke voters may have looked at his roster and plus/minus and thought, "hey, this guy has to be good defensively!"

Generally, he's believed to have improved defensively, but all his Selke votes came between '07 and '10. He hasn't gotten a Selke vote since his peak ended.

Yeah, let's scrap the "possession" notion and just go with the voters seeing plus/minus and thinking "hey, what the heck"

If the Selke gets further bastardized into an offensive award because of "possession" (a term stolen and mangled by Corsi-followers of all things) then we owe Gretzky a bunch of these things...let's not be ridiculous. The notion that Ovechkin ever deserved to be top 200 in Selke voting in any given year is ludicrous.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Yeah, let's scrap the "possession" notion and just go with the voters seeing plus/minus and thinking "hey, what the heck"

If the Selke gets further bastardized into an offensive award because of "possession" (a term stolen and mangled by Corsi-followers of all things) then we owe Gretzky a bunch of these things...let's not be ridiculous. The notion that Ovechkin ever deserved to be top 200 in Selke voting in any given year is ludicrous.

Gretzky had three seasons where he finished 24th to 26th in Selke voting himself. What do you think of that? Underrated defensively?

 

[GlitchMarner]

Not sure if youre looking for random votes or actual winners that make no sense. If its the latter take ur pick from

Lemieux losing hart in 89
Lemieux winning lindsay in 86
Gretzky losing out smythe in 83, 84 and 87

As great as Yzerman was in '89, I don't know how he won the Pearson over Lemieux and Gretzky.

 

[Laineux]

Scott Niedermayer was top 35 in Selke voting... three times.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Gretzky had three seasons where he finished 24th to 26th in Selke voting himself. What do you think of that? Underrated defensively?

I don't know if the question is serious, nor do I understand it, with all due respect. Gretzky passed off typical F1/center defensive duties to Jari Kurri for much of his career so that he could guard the point, like a winger...so, no, he was not a very effective defensive player and deserved no Selke votes ever, imo.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I don't know if the question is serious, nor do I understand it, with all due respect. Gretzky passed off typical F1/center defensive duties to Jari Kurri for much of his career so that he could guard the point, like a winger...so, no, he was not a very effective defensive player and deserved no Selke votes ever, imo.

In '85 he finished+100, so it's not shocking he finished in the top 30 in Selke voting whether it was deserved or not.

However, he was +8 in 1990 and finished 26th in Selke voting that season somehow.

 

[bobholly39]

Gretzky had three seasons where he finished 24th to 26th in Selke voting himself. What do you think of that? Underrated defensively?

I have no issue with such votes tbh. The best defense is a good offense. Don't go unanimously giving Gretzky a selke win or anything - but giving him (or other top offensive stars) a few fringe votes has never really bothered me much.

As great as Yzerman was in '89, I don't know how he won the Pearson over Lemieux and Gretzky.

I'm guessing players didn't take it seriously back then, or it was different at least. I'm certain none of the players thought Yzerman was better than Wayne or Lemieux that year - that couldn't have been the reasoning behind the vote.

It would be akin to McDavid scorines 144 points this year while no one else surpasses 104 - but Matthews being at 104 is a "good story" as the "new guy" so players give him the Lindsay instead. Just wouldn't make any sense at all in today's NHL - I have to assume people simply didn't care as much back then.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Chris Simon received a third place vote for the Hart back in 99/00. Made me burst out laghing.

Dirk Graham went from receiving one single third place vote for the Selke in 89/90 to winning the very same award the next year. The year after that he was back to his few third place votes. It's a strange award.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Let’s keep in mind that “top-30 in Selke voting” is nothing, and that pretty much any award results devolve into noise past the top 7 or 8 names, fewer if it’s the Vezina where only 31 people vote.

Also, Brad Lukowich got a Norris vote in 2001.

 

[Laineux]

Sidney Crosby was 28th in Lady Byng voting in 2011-12.

He played 22 games. Seems out of place to vote him for any award.

 

[VanIslander]

Bobby Orr's 1968 Norris trophy win was NOT based on the best season by a defenseman. He missed HALF the season and didn't put up gaudy numbers the other half. He won based on buzz and hype and potential, NOT ON PERFORMANCE (other than a few highlight rushes that whetted appetites). It was a travesty. The other great defensemen that season were ignored. I broke down the voting and candidates before, but am on my new smartphone and unable to access it easily.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

In 1985, Brian Sutter got a first place vote for the Hart trophy. Yes, he was a good player and had a good year, but how was he possibly more valuable than Gretzky (who scored 208 points and led his team by 73 points?)

In 2003, Markus Naslund received 60 first-team votes at LW, and was left off the 61st ballot entirely. But we know that Todd Betuzzi got the last first place vote at LW, and Naslund got a single first place vote at RW. Obviously one voter didn’t follow the Canucks very closely. What makes this frustrating is Naslund should have been the most recent player to be a unanimous year-end all-star (technically he’s one vote shy, but it should probably count as it was clearly due to voter confusion).

I’m not even going to mention Ovechkin’s “two all star teams at once” fiasco from 2013.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

getting worked up or assigning any measure of value to a Selke finish outside the top 15 is the definition of a waste.

All of those are nothing more than a random writer or 2 giving a guy a couple of 4th or 5th place votes. There was no real consideration or thought that the player was good defensively associated.

A real instance of bad trophy voting is the 1999 MLB MVP vote.

2 voters, in New York, intentionally left Pedro Martinez off their ballots costing him the award.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Scott Niedermayer was top 35 in Selke voting... three times.

might just be a transcription error and those votes actually were for rob.

the 2011 selke is pretty nuts. henrik sedin finished a little ahead of burrows. i’m not so bothered that henrik got three random selke votes from ppl who don’t watch hockey in a year he won the hart, moreso that burrows only got two votes when he was the best defensive winger in the league. him bring that close to henrik (and daniel, who also had two votes, albeit lower ones) just goes to show that there were people that never watched the best line in hockey.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Scott Niedermayer was top 35 in Selke voting... three times.

In 1982, Clark Gillies received a vote for the year-end all-star team at defence. By that point Gillies had been an all-star and Stanley Cup winner multiple times so he shouldn’t have been an unknown quantity to the voter.

 

[danincanada]

Brett Hull got a Selke vote in '03.

Not that I agree with getting Selke votes but Hull was a pretty good penalty killer after his time in Dallas. He and Yzerman were usually on together and made a good pairing in '02. By the '04 playoffs it looked like he let his conditioning slide because watching him go through the motions drove me crazy.

Selanne on the other hand... not really any defensive game to speak of.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

surprised it wasnt mentioned already, but Ovechkin in 2012-13.

pretty bad that the writers voted him 1st team RW and 2nd team LW

 

[BenchBrawl]

Scott Niedermayer was top 35 in Selke voting... three times.

What in the hell?!



edit: Probably mixed up with his brother?