Stralman vs. Johnson

Superfly Jimmy Snuka

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this is why it makes me ashamed to be a leaf fan sometimes.....everyone thinks our prospects are going to be the next hall of famer......Stralman should be a top 4 dman, anything above that is a bonus.......Jack Johnson is by far leaps and bounds above Stralman in development, not to say Jack is a complete player yet he has things to work on but id take Jack any day of the week over Stralman
 

kingpest19

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One thing that I can't figure out is why Jack Johnson got traded for a mediocre Tim Gleason, based on what I read in here Rutherford has to be the biggest idiot in the world.

What was the story with that?

Wouldnt exactly call Gleason a mediocre player. He traded for Gleason becuase he is young , had NHL experience and could step right in to the lineup. Even missing 25 games he was still top 10 in ice time for them. People tend to forget he was a well thought of prospect when he was drafted. Just because he doesnt have the hype JJ did doesnt make him a mediocre player.
 

Freebooter

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Hedman's defensive partner in that tournament was...Stralman. Without Hedman, Stralman was a first team all star in the SEL this past season at the age of 20.

Saying that Hedman is better looks like a non-Leafs fan fantasy.

You couldn't have missed my point more had you tried. Let me simplify for you: Hedman had a better tournament from a stats perspective (points, +/-) and thus "stood out" more at that tournament than did Stralman; the original poster suggested that Stralman was one of the best at that tournament with the best in the world in his age group - not accurate at all. JJ was clearly one the best, albeit on a better team than Stralman.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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:huh:

Johnson controlled the play at the college level which features mainly 20-24 year olds, while Staal controlled the game at the major junior level which features 16-19 year olds. Hard to compare how dominate they were towards each other.

They're both development leagues, and fairly comparable at that. I'd say that playing well in one is just as noteworthy as the other.

Comparing Staal and Johnson is just not a good idea. They play too different styles. Staal is a rock, but will never be able to control the pace of the game the way Johnson does. I hope you did not get that impression because the canadian media tends to hype the canadian's U-20's as all future all-stars while negleting all other countries.

I don't give a **** what the Canadian media thinks. I have eyes, and I've used them to watch Johnson and Staal extensively over the last 2 WJCs. I'm eminently qualified to give an opinion on both, and not just parrot TSN.

Ask anyone who watched Sudbury in the OHL playoffs this year and see if they think Staal is capable of dictating the pace of the game.

I will not comment on who I think is better because they are both great prospects.

Ugh.
 

mooseOAK*

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You couldn't have missed my point more had you tried. Let me simplify for you: Hedman had a better tournament from a stats perspective (points, +/-) and thus "stood out" more at that tournament than did Stralman; the original poster suggested that Stralman was one of the best at that tournament with the best in the world in his age group - not accurate at all. JJ was clearly one the best, albeit on a better team than Stralman.
So, this is all based on your saying that Stralman being one of the best defencemen in the WJC's is "not accurate at all" because of his partner's stats which "stood out". I get it.

Anyway, it is 2007 now and Stralman is the best defenceman prospect in Sweden.
 

Holden Caulfield

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They're both development leagues, and fairly comparable at that. I'd say that playing well in one is just as noteworthy as the other.

The level of play at the NCAA level is much higher than CHL. There is no denying that, I fail to see how you can refute that. Not to say which one is better at developing players or anything, just based on the ages of players playing in that league. There have been many examples of guys who sturggled at the NCAA who broke out in the CHL(T.J. Fast and David Meckler are two that I can think of off the top of my head).

I don't give a **** what the Canadian media thinks. I have eyes, and I've used them to watch Johnson and Staal extensively over the last 2 WJCs. I'm eminently qualified to give an opinion on both, and not just parrot TSN.

Ask anyone who watched Sudbury in the OHL playoffs this year and see if they think Staal is capable of dictating the pace of the game.

Was not trying to say you did. Just a general observation of the canadian media. Hence the words "I hope". I would in fact refute your agrument that "Staal straight up outplayed Johnson". Staal obviously beats Johnson in terms of defensive awareness and positioning, but Johnson is a much more dynamic player, making things happen with his skating and hitting. I'l say it again, it is much to hard to compare these two players because of the different styles they play. And no, I did not see Sudbury's playoffs, but based on his stats you are probably right that Staal could control the play at the CHL level. We will see about both of them probably next year.
 

Vagrant

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I think it's Johnson, for the record. But I caution people against saying Johnson is "proven", based on his play at Michigan any more than Stralman is "proven" based on his play in the SEL. At the very worst, that would be a wash. In more realistic terms, it's harder to have success in the SEL as a defenseman than it is to have success in the NCAA as a defenseman.

Way too early to call, but if we're going on pure talent alone it would have to be Jack Johnson to any unbiased observer. From what I have heard of Stralman, as i've not seen him, he is a very heady defenseman and I like that aspect of his game if those reports are true. That would bode well for future success, but I wouldn't jump the gun here.

Both guys are equally unproven and both guys are equally hyped. One because of his high draft position, great performance in the NCAA, and impressive physical skills. One because of his FAST emergence, great performance in the SEL, and impressive smarts with the puck and Lidstrom comparisons.
 

HockeyAndWings

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According to HFboards, isnt stralman rated at 6.5, which would mean that he is not really a very good d-man?
 

draeko17

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I'm not trying to be deliberately antagonistic, but there is no factual support for that statement whatsoever, and it looks like Leaf fan based fantasy. If you look at the tournament page for the 2005-2006 WJC, Stralman, playing as a 19 year old, had 1 point, was not named as an all-star (you will note who was). In fact, from that tournament, you would think that Oscar Hedman was the best defensive prospect from Sweden, by far. JJ is a five tool player; IMO, Stralman is, at best, similar to Andrei Markov (which ain't half bad, just not a super-elite defenseman).

http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournamen...re/jsp/content/web_output/index.jsp@compId=55


You're right. At this time, I have no factual support for what I posted. I understand it looks like "Leaf fan based fantasy". My recollection from that tournament was that there was talk in the media when the tournament wrapped up about Anton being one of the better defensemen in the tournament. I will try to do some research (not my strong suit) to back up what I posted beyond "I heard". Please note, though, I wasn't comparing Stralman to JJ. As I said, I think they are dis-similar d-men, so I wouldn't "compare" them. I was simply noting that he has been over here in North American competing to good reviews (as I said, I'll see what I can dig up to support my assertion :)) which certainly have not tapered off since then.
 

Hunter Gathers

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I still don't understand how people can get this impression. They've had comparable success in their junior leagues, but Staal has straight-up outplayed Johnson at the WJCs.

Apparently impenetrable defense is no match for big hits and offensive flair.

Hey, I'm a Rangers fan but even I realize that Johnson's upside is a decent step above Staal's. I love Marc Staal and I feel he's the 3rd best defensive prospect in the entire world (only behind the two Johnson kids).

But I would still take JJ over Staal if only by a hair. BUT I would not trade Staal for him, because it's too much of a risk in a move like that as JJ's downside is FAR FAR FAR worse than Staal's.
 

Hunter Gathers

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The level of play at the NCAA level is much higher than CHL. There is no denying that, I fail to see how you can refute that. Not to say which one is better at developing players or anything, just based on the ages of players playing in that league. There have been many examples of guys who sturggled at the NCAA who broke out in the CHL(T.J. Fast and David Meckler are two that I can think of off the top of my head).



Was not trying to say you did. Just a general observation of the canadian media. Hence the words "I hope". I would in fact refute your agrument that "Staal straight up outplayed Johnson". Staal obviously beats Johnson in terms of defensive awareness and positioning, but Johnson is a much more dynamic player, making things happen with his skating and hitting. I'l say it again, it is much to hard to compare these two players because of the different styles they play. And no, I did not see Sudbury's playoffs, but based on his stats you are probably right that Staal could control the play at the CHL level. We will see about both of them probably next year.

Staal "makes things happen with his skating and hitting" as well. I watched a few games of his in the playoffs and a lot of him during the year and he is one of the best guys at timing a hit just right to send the play the other way.

Johnson is pretty good at it, but his timing and positioning are so far off Staal's that the main thing Johnson does with his hitting is... just hitting. Not really timing it perfectly to turn the play around. Johnson can throw some REALLY nasty hits out there that can put fear in the eyes of players... but so can Staal. I don't understand why people think that Johnson is so much more physical than Staal. He's a bit feistier, but Staal hits just as much and much smarter than Johnson does. JJ will go for the big hit and take himself way out of position while you won't see Staal do that -- he'll stay back and wait for the hit to come, make it, and throw the puck up the ice.

Huge difference there, but I definitely like the way Staal plays the body more than JJ. Big hits are nice, but not when every 1/3rd one gives an odd man rush.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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The level of play at the NCAA level is much higher than CHL. There is no denying that, I fail to see how you can refute that. Not to say which one is better at developing players or anything, just based on the ages of players playing in that league. There have been many examples of guys who sturggled at the NCAA who broke out in the CHL(T.J. Fast and David Meckler are two that I can think of off the top of my head).

I don't see the age as being a huge hurdle. The older players that are playing in the NCAA certainly aren't NHL calibre - which is why they're still in the NCAA.

Was not trying to say you did. Just a general observation of the canadian media. Hence the words "I hope". I would in fact refute your agrument that "Staal straight up outplayed Johnson". Staal obviously beats Johnson in terms of defensive awareness and positioning, but Johnson is a much more dynamic player, making things happen with his skating and hitting. I'l say it again, it is much to hard to compare these two players because of the different styles they play. And no, I did not see Sudbury's playoffs, but based on his stats you are probably right that Staal could control the play at the CHL level. We will see about both of them probably next year.

If I wanted to win at the WJCs, I'd have taken Staal over Johnson at both tourneys.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Hey, I'm a Rangers fan but even I realize that Johnson's upside is a decent step above Staal's. I love Marc Staal and I feel he's the 3rd best defensive prospect in the entire world (only behind the two Johnson kids).

But I would still take JJ over Staal if only by a hair. BUT I would not trade Staal for him, because it's too much of a risk in a move like that as JJ's downside is FAR FAR FAR worse than Staal's.

I'm of the opinion that Staal has the rare sort of innate defensive instincts that can't be taught. He's such an efficient neutralizer that it really seems second-nature, and I'm not sure that there's a big, physical defenseman in the league today that is as good as Staal has the potential to be in the defensive zone. Some may call it hyperbole, but I have very high hopes for the kid, and I haven't seen much of him that would lead me to think otherwise.

Johnson may round out his own-end play, but I can't see him ever having anywhere close to the same impact defensively as Staal. Jack's offensive ceiling is higher than Staal's, but that gap isn't nearly as pronounced as the advantage Staal's ceiling has in his forte. IMHO.

As a Ranger fan and a supporter of American prospects, it's win-win for you. As a fan of an Atlantic division rival, I should pray you're right about Johnson being the better of the two. ;)

Anyway, back to Stralman.
 

Garl

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Oct 7, 2006
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Funny thread.

People who say that Johnson is much better player than Stralman are biased. Anti-Leafs, or draft(JJ is #3 and AS is #216).

On a big ice I would have taken Stralman over JJ without a doubt. At last World Senior Champs JJ didn't stud out much, Stralman was team Sweden best defender I would even say MVP.
Actually Stralman played like an all-star at WC, he was the most impressive defenceman, but maybe i'm biased.

On a small ice I don't know yet.

P.S.Still Stralman gets too much hype lately, let him make a name for himself in NHL.
 

Gutchecktime

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I think it's Johnson, for the record. But I caution people against saying Johnson is "proven", based on his play at Michigan any more than Stralman is "proven" based on his play in the SEL. At the very worst, that would be a wash. In more realistic terms, it's harder to have success in the SEL as a defenseman than it is to have success in the NCAA as a defenseman.

Way too early to call, but if we're going on pure talent alone it would have to be Jack Johnson to any unbiased observer. From what I have heard of Stralman, as i've not seen him, he is a very heady defenseman and I like that aspect of his game if those reports are true. That would bode well for future success, but I wouldn't jump the gun here.

Both guys are equally unproven and both guys are equally hyped. One because of his high draft position, great performance in the NCAA, and impressive physical skills. One because of his FAST emergence, great performance in the SEL, and impressive smarts with the puck and Lidstrom comparisons.

:handclap: Great post and extremely level-headed.

First of all let me say that as a Leaf fan, I in no way endorse the starting of this thread. If I had to choose, I would take Johnson at this point. There is a very good reason he was taken 3rd (and I think should've been taken ahead of Bobby Ryan too) and that is because he has all the tools it takes to be a stud defenseman.

However, I don't see why everyone is laughing at the fact that Stralman hasn't proven himself yet, when Jack Johnson really hasn't either. I mean, he played in what, 6 (not sure on this but I'm pretty sure it was single digits) meaningless games last year and that doesn't exactly PROVE anything.

Again, cannot stress this enough, I am a huge fan of JJ and actually I watched his debut online last season :D . I think he will be a very good defenseman. But Stralman doesn't deserve some of the comments here and to be fair, a lot of the hype we're getting isn't out of Toronto, it's out of Sweden. But of course, it'll be pretty much blamed on us. Excellent.
 

no name

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They're both development leagues, and fairly comparable at that. I'd say that playing well in one is just as noteworthy as the other.



I don't give a **** what the Canadian media thinks. I have eyes, and I've used them to watch Johnson and Staal extensively over the last 2 WJCs. I'm eminently qualified to give an opinion on both, and not just parrot TSN.

Ask anyone who watched Sudbury in the OHL playoffs this year and see if they think Staal is capable of dictating the pace of the game.



Ugh.

You have proven to be nothing but a Kings prospect hater in your stint here at HF.

They're both development leagues, and fairly comparable at that. I'd say that playing well in one is just as noteworthy as the other.

That has nothing to do with what he said. He compared age of the league vs age of the player. We don't give two shakes of what "you would say". That does not make a debate.

We are sick and tired of you crying when the media and those at HF compare Kings prospects to the Pens prospects. Yes, I know we are not comparing a Pens prospect but like clock work you are here to piss on any King possible. Your vendetta is confusing.
 

Bullsmith

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What a silly comparison. Stralman, like Kulemin, is a prospect Leafs fans are very excited about, but both of them are simply not at the level of the ultra-elite prospects they keep getting compared to. Johsnon is one of the best D prospects in the world and almost any team would pay dearly to get him. Stralman may or may not be a late-round gem. His upside is enormous, but you could say that about thousands of players who have ended up never making the league. Comparing the two at this point is ridiculous.

I find the Kulemin hype just as overblown, or maybe even moreso. On another thread someone's pointing out that Kulemin's doing things in the RSL that Ovechkin and Malkin did (i.e. leading the RSL in goals). That kind of comparison is simply not fair to Kulemin. Ovechkin and Malkin are franchise-level players that were being talked about in every hockey city before they ever played in the NHL. Kulemin, like 99.9% of other good prospects, is simply not in that league.
 

Bill_Crosby*

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The only knock you guys have against Stralman is that he hasn't played in the NHL yet (That will change next season). As if it is his fault.

Prepare to be crying that your team passed him over 5 or 6 times in the draft.
 

Squeaky

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I have eyes, and I've used them to watch Johnson and Staal extensively over the last 2 WJCs. I'm eminently qualified to give an opinion on both

Lol, did you really just make the claim that having eyes makes you eminently qualified to judge prospects?
 

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