Proposal: STL/ARI: Brayden Schenn for Ekman-Larsson

[BackhandToedrag]

If I'm Arizona, I'd be interested in something around #16, #21, plus a handful of young players

Go back and read my messages

It's you who is confused about things

is this not you responding to a post about a OEL Rangers trade that would include the Rangers 2 first round picks ?

 

[JackFr]

Oliver Ekman-Larsson is severely overrated and highly overpaid. He's got seven years left at a huge cap hit and his numbers suggest he's become poor defensively. He's still an excellent PPQB and decent offensively, but I don't think a team with cap issues (or incoming cap issues) should go anywhere near him.

I know that when a defenceman on a neglected team gets a reputation for being good and underrated it's heresy to counter that narrative at all (even 4 years later), but he has taken a huge hit since 2017-18 and in my opinion his price tag (both in cap hit and trade value) is way too high to risk it.

Schenn is a decent enough 1B centre at a fair number, and the Blues already have a disastrous long-term offensive defenceman contract - I don't think they need to risk another one.

 

[PAZ]

Oliver Ekman-Larsson is severely overrated and highly overpaid. He's got seven years left at a huge cap hit and his numbers suggest he's become poor defensively. He's still an excellent PPQB and decent offensively, but I don't think a team with cap issues (or incoming cap issues) should go anywhere near him.

I know that when a defenceman on a neglected team gets a reputation for being good and underrated it's heresy to counter that narrative at all (even 4 years later), but he has taken a huge hit since 2017-18 and in my opinion his price tag (both in cap hit and trade value) is way too high to risk it.

Schenn is a decent enough 1B centre at a fair number, and the Blues already have a disastrous long-term offensive defenceman contract - I don't think they need to risk another one.

If they can get rid of Faulk's horrendous contract it makes sense.

 

[simon IC]

Oliver Ekman-Larsson is severely overrated and highly overpaid. He's got seven years left at a huge cap hit and his numbers suggest he's become poor defensively. He's still an excellent PPQB and decent offensively, but I don't think a team with cap issues (or incoming cap issues) should go anywhere near him.

I know that when a defenceman on a neglected team gets a reputation for being good and underrated it's heresy to counter that narrative at all (even 4 years later), but he has taken a huge hit since 2017-18 and in my opinion his price tag (both in cap hit and trade value) is way too high to risk it.

Schenn is a decent enough 1B centre at a fair number, and the Blues already have a disastrous long-term offensive defenceman contract - I don't think they need to risk another one.

Excellent post! You were a little harsher on OEL than I would have been, but I essentially agree with you. In the future, if our LD is going to include Vince Dunn and Scott Perunovich, then the last thing we need to add is another defensively suspect defenseman, Dunn's defensive game is slowly improving, but he can still be a liability. Perunovich is a 5'9" PMD who's defensive ability hasn't even been tested at the professional level. In those two we possess the puck skills, but we need another solid defender to replace Bouwmeester going forward. For these reasons I do not see OEL as a good fit in St. Louis.

 

[JackFr]

Excellent post! You were a little harsher on OEL than I would have been, but I essentially agree with you. In the future, if our LD is going to include Vince Dunn and Scott Perunovich, then the last thing we need to add is another defensively suspect defenseman, Dunn's defensive game is slowly improving, but he can still be a liability. Perunovich is a 5'9" PMD who's defensive ability hasn't even been tested at the professional level. In those two we possess the puck skills, but we need another solid defender to replace Bouwmeester going forward. For these reasons I do not see OEL as a good fit in St. Louis.

If they feel the need to make a big trade, they should target Brodin from Minnesota instead of OEL.

 

[DatDude44]

Mikkola?

Honestly wasn’t thinking about him, it’d be a battle with him and Perunovich

 

[DatDude44]

No thanks. Schenn is huge part of team. Not many players with his combination of skill and physical play, even less who can play center. For a team whose identity is physical play, how can you deal him? And for what? If you want to work deal around Faulk for OEL that could make sense for Blues (maybe not Coyotes), but not at cost of Schenn.

Schenn is keeping Thomas back from centering in the top 6 and I don’t see that lasting too much longer and I don’t see Schenn ever being put on our third line(maybe 2 LW with ROR and perron). If a guy like Blais plays every night on the third line, that’s a ton of physicality, obviously I’m top of Sunny, barbs, MacMac etc...

I get your point I don’t want to lose that physicality but I think with Schenn it’s a tiny bit of an overrated trend of his. I rarely see any of his hits actually used effectively, it’s typically on the forecheck after a D has already moved the puck up ice or after the whistle stuff.

 

[Blueston]

Schenn is keeping Thomas back from centering in the top 6 and I don’t see that lasting too much longer and I don’t see Schenn ever being put on our third line(maybe 2 LW with ROR and perron). If a guy like Blais plays every night on the third line, that’s a ton of physicality, obviously I’m top of Sunny, barbs, MacMac etc...

I get your point I don’t want to lose that physicality but I think with Schenn it’s a tiny bit of an overrated trend of his. I rarely see any of his hits actually used effectively, it’s typically on the forecheck after a D has already moved the puck up ice or after the whistle stuff.

If you are worried about stifling Thomas, Schenn can play wing. He is the only member of our top 6 who brings much physicality though, so dealing him would be huge loss. That physicality is particularly valuable in playoffs where we are able to wear teams down over course of a series. Guys like Blais and Barbie are physical, but they don't bring what Schenn does offensively. This feels like trying to solve for a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[rt]

Oliver Ekman-Larsson is severely overrated and highly overpaid. He's got seven years left at a huge cap hit and his numbers suggest he's become poor defensively. He's still an excellent PPQB and decent offensively, but I don't think a team with cap issues (or incoming cap issues) should go anywhere near him.

I know that when a defenceman on a neglected team gets a reputation for being good and underrated it's heresy to counter that narrative at all (even 4 years later), but he has taken a huge hit since 2017-18 and in my opinion his price tag (both in cap hit and trade value) is way too high to risk it.

Schenn is a decent enough 1B centre at a fair number, and the Blues already have a disastrous long-term offensive defenceman contract - I don't think they need to risk another one.

Tocchet has been a complete failure as a head coach. The eye test tells me OEL is actually better defensively since becoming captain, but the team is really a train-wreck that depends heavily on goalies to bail them out. If Tocchet were fired before play resumes, and a bonafide NHL head coach replaced him, I think we would see a huge resurgence from OEL. A lot was made about how strained their relationship was early on and how much they struggled to fit with one another. Then it all got dropped, and everyone kind of assumed the hatchet was buried. I'm not so sure.

OEL didn't lose his physical ability or skill. He still shows it in flashes. Particularly when the game heats up and he finds himself engaged in a war with a particular player on the other team. When he starts battling, and shuts his brain off, he looks like the OEL of old. I think lousy coaching, and the subsequent loss after loss after loss has piled up on OEL. The Coyotes are a maddening team to watch. I'm sure it's much worse to be the captain of this mess, when you rightfully have no faith in your horrible coaching staff.

He still has his ability. He's just playing a much more muted game. Glaring mistakes have been reduced along with the highlight reel plays. He's been toned down way too much. I'd love to see him break-free and start playing that high-flying, passionate, entertaining game that was once his signature. I just don't think it's going to happen for this coaching staff.

The Coyotes need to clean house. I think they need to clear out the front-office, the coaching staff, and the on-ice leadership group. Kessel, Stepan, and Goligoski are all solid enough players, usually. But they are severely miscast as leaders. These are very passive, support players. Kessel was once an elite support player, but he was a support player. Chayka and Tocchet have built the team, and the leadership group around quiet, details guys, who never get their blood up, and play very passive games. It's not working.

 

[rt]

If you are worried about stifling Thomas, Schenn can play wing. He is the only member of our top 6 who brings much physicality though, so dealing him would be huge loss. That physicality is particularly valuable in playoffs where we are able to wear teams down over course of a series. Guys like Blais and Barbie are physical, but they don't bring what Schenn does offensively. This feels like trying to solve for a problem that doesn't exist.

How about OEL+Fischer for Schenn?

 

[DatDude44]

If you are worried about stifling Thomas, Schenn can play wing. He is the only member of our top 6 who brings much physicality though, so dealing him would be huge loss. That physicality is particularly valuable in playoffs where we are able to wear teams down over course of a series. Guys like Blais and Barbie are physical, but they don't bring what Schenn does offensively. This feels like trying to solve for a problem that doesn't exist.

It’s more of thinking proactively to continue improving this team in the hopes of repeating/ building a dynasty. I’m totally fine keeping Schenn on wing if he’d do it, but I’m not a fan of his game at C, he does a lot of stupid stuff all over the ice where playing wing would be more helpful for him and allow him to use the body more.

but I’m just absolutely salivating at the thought of having OEL in our D- core and having Atleast one or two of OEL, Petro, Parayko on the ice 85% of every game and just being absolutely dominant at 5v5

 

[Blueston]

How about OEL+Fischer for Schenn?

Fischer doesn't seem to really move the needle. Physical but not that productive.

 

[TBF1972]

If petro walks I think this works. I think the value leans blues though unless oel has trended down faster than i thought. I'm expecting Schenn to fall off a cliff at 32 like power forwards in every sport seem to do.

Karl Malone disagrees.

 

[simon IC]

It’s more of thinking proactively to continue improving this team in the hopes of repeating/ building a dynasty. I’m totally fine keeping Schenn on wing if he’d do it, but I’m not a fan of his game at C, he does a lot of stupid stuff all over the ice where playing wing would be more helpful for him and allow him to use the body more.

but I’m just absolutely salivating at the thought of having OEL in our D- core and having Atleast one or two of OEL, Petro, Parayko on the ice 85% of every game and just being absolutely dominant at 5v5

If we were to add OEL, then one of Dunn or Perunovich has to go. A future LD consisting of OEL-Dunn-Perunovich scares the heck out of me. There has to be at least one defensively responsible player on the left. Maybe Mikkola can be that guy. Possibly a re-signed Scandella.

 

[rt]

If we were to add OEL, then one of Dunn or Perunovich has to go. A future LD consisting of OEL-Dunn-Perunovich scares the heck out of me. There has to be at least one defensively responsible player on the left. Maybe Mikkola can be that guy. Possibly a re-signed Scandella.

OEL suffers from occasional blunders (what you usually get with a ton of minutes) but is consistently pretty solid.

 

[Robtom18]

How about OEL+Fischer for Schenn?

Yeah no rather keep schenn center and rw are needed.

 

[rt]

Yeah no rather keep schenn center and rw are needed.

Not saying you should take the deal. Am saying Fischer is a RW.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Blues needed centers for years and couldn’t seem to find them. On the flip side, we seem to routinely churn out solid defensemen. Hopefully Scott Perunovich and Niko Mikkola are next there.

I’ll pass.

 

[Robtom18]

Not saying you should take the deal. Am saying Fischer is a RW.

No reason to part with schenn non at all

 

[Bluesguru]

Army wouldn’t be interested in this deal and rightly so. Schenn is a gamer. AZ can keep OEL. Remember how they said they wouldn’t offer him for the right to pick Matthews? Yeah, well, OEL is all theirs now. And Keller is way overrated too.

 

[St Louis515]

Even thou Keller is from St Louis, he is just an above average player, at this point not worth the money he is making. Also the Blues will have to pay for Jaden Schwartz and Robert Thomas next year. You can not pay everyone 6-8 million per year.

 

[Heldig]

Even thou Keller is from St Louis, he is just an above average player, at this point not worth the money he is making. Also the Blues will have to pay for Jaden Schwartz and Robert Thomas next year. You can not pay everyone 6-8 million per year.

While I think the Keller contract was premature it is hard to judge based on the team he plays on. He has led or been top 3 in scoring on the Coyotes all 3 years in the NHL. Would he elevate his game on a good team with a real centre? The hope is he does and that the Coyotes finally/eventually find that elusive top line C to play on aline with Keller.

 

[rt]

I'd say Keller for Schenn, but I think the 7 year age gap is just too much. Maybe if we also included Goligoski and Dunn. Keller+Goligoski for Schenn+Dunn?

 

[Kocur Dill]

Honestly, my #1 preference would be to fire everyone, and trade everyone. I hate everything about my team. But since that won't happen, I want a goddamned center who can play right now.

I love this reply.

Thats the crux of the issue between the two teams. NYR could definitely use a true #1 LD like OEL, but we have no significant 1 for 1 offensive players to acquire him. Panarin is a no, Zibanejad is maybe a hair over payment, but he's our only bonified 1c, Kreider is a no-go after just signing and I'd be shocked if Strome went back to AZ, besides the fact I'm not sold on him being a 70pt guy every season going through the rest of his next contract. ADA is attractive, but, that ship sailed for both parties I believe plus RD doesn't seem to be a huge need for AZ with Gogo and Hammer.

All we have is futures. Some really nice ones. But I understand RT's position.

 

[BackhandToedrag]

Army wouldn’t be interested in this deal and rightly so. Schenn is a gamer. AZ can keep OEL. Remember how they said they wouldn’t offer him for the right to pick Matthews? Yeah, well, OEL is all theirs now. And Keller is way overrated too.

How is Schenn a gamer the guy has 8 goals in 50 playoff games