Steve Thomas...has lost his mind

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habfan4

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scaredsensfan said:
Or you could decertify and sink the league.

Or get into negotiations to start up another legaue. You really think that there wont be a market out there for the world's elite hockey talent? HOw can the NHL be the premiere league or even exist if all the best players aren't playing in it? Who the hell would care about it? No one.

Dumb.

I'll assume you're replying to me.

A new competitive league you say: Who will finance and run this league? In what infrastructure will games be played? At what salary level? - Sorry decertifying to create another league is not an option for the NHLPA (they go from being players to owners - which is too rich for their blood).
 

Ar-too

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habfan4 said:
I'll assume you're replying to me.

A new competitive league you say: Who will finance and run this league? In what infrastructure will games be played? At what salary level? - Sorry decertifying to create another league is not an option for the NHLPA (they go from being players to owners - which is too rich for their blood).

For some reason, I think they might have trouble finding a place to play...
 

Chileiceman

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Son of Steinbrenner said:
Both sides will pay for it if this season is lost. The players warned the owners 2 or 3 years ago they wouldn't accept a cap. What makes either side right or wrong? neither of us can say.
This is why the players are so dumb. Right now they're not making hardly anything
(for their standards) and are about to lose a whole year's salary just because the average player can't tolerate to make 1.3 million dollars, (who would want that? :lol ) and prefer to make less somewhere else.
Meanwhile the owners don't have to pay player salaries.
If there is no Cap and the system stays the same(which seems to be how you want it) the owners keep on losing millions instead of making millions.
But if there is a cap AND the minimum salary is raised, players will go back to making their millions (minus a small fraction,but they're still going to be wealthey nontheless), lower end players will actually make more money and the teams won't have to worry about going bankrupt.
It seems pretty obvious to me who's right.
 

habfan4

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s3por2d said:
For some reason, I think they might have trouble finding a place to play...

Damn straight, I just can't envision a scenario whereby the Montréal Marshmellows of the PA league, open a season at the Bell Centre. Financing would be the bigger problem? The PA wouldn't be prepared to do it themselves and there is no one waiting in the wings to start a new league (the costs are too prohibitive).
 

SENSible1*

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PepNCheese said:
He hasn't lost his mind at all.

The owners have never offered anything but their own framework. To them, there is only one solution for a new CBA.

There has been no real compromise and no real attempt made to address the players' concerns...just a bunch of vague promises to share profits and playoff revenues.

The measures the NHL has made to appear as "concessions" really aren't. The classic example is arbitration.

First they set the baseline by saying they want to abolish it. Then they appear to "concede" by making it 2-way(not that this is even a concession, because it gives power but then takes it right back again for the league). Then they try to take it away again in exchange for a lower UFA age. Nothing is ever truly conceded.

In other words, heads the owners win, tails the players lose.

And now everybody's screaming the players are insane not to sign this?

Whatever.

Ever heard of building giveaways into your bargaining postition?

The link between UFA age and arbitration will be "severed" when the PA agrees to mirrored two-way.
 

Morbo

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Jan 14, 2003
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Thunderstruck said:
Ever heard of building giveaways into your bargaining postition?

The link between UFA age and arbitration will be "severed" when the PA agrees to mirrored two-way.

Thanks for admitting that what I said was correct.

Of course, the way you phrase it makes it sound so much better, even though it really isn't...standard NHL practice.

Bettman has taught you well, young Thunderstruck.
 

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PepNCheese said:
Thanks for admitting that what I said was correct.

Of course, the way you phrase it makes it sound so much better, even though it really isn't...standard NHL practice.

Bettman has taught you well, young Thunderstruck.

If they put their "best offer" on the table and refused to move from that position, no doubt you'd call them intransigent.

It's called negotiating.
 

Crazy Lunatic

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scaredsensfan said:
Or you could decertify and sink the league.

Or get into negotiations to start up another legaue. You really think that there wont be a market out there for the world's elite hockey talent? HOw can the NHL be the premiere league or even exist if all the best players aren't playing in it? Who the hell would care about it? No one.

Dumb.

According to the former head of the NBA players association, decertification isn't an option. If they decertified, it would be an every man for himself situation with individual players having to sue the league. And according to him, the courts in the US has zero interest in hearing major league sports anti-trust cases. They basically would throw it out of court. Add to that the NHLPA pension plan is dead once the players decertify. And where are all these players go to play in their new NHLPA league? They would start it up, lose billions of dollars and then demand themselves to accept a salary cap to avoid losing all their own money. :lol
 

Bring Back Bucky

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May 19, 2004
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Is it possible that the aforementioned Mr. Thomas is getting cranky as he realizes that the gravy train that was his NHL career has come to a halt, and that he may not be able to afford to properly feed and pamper those fantastic giant poodles he bought on impulse whilst "trying to keep up with the Joneses"??? :dunno: :dunno:
 

CGG

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Jan 6, 2005
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Chileiceman said:
This is why the players are so dumb. Right now they're not making hardly anything
(for their standards) and are about to lose a whole year's salary just because the average player can't tolerate to make 1.3 million dollars, (who would want that? :lol ) and prefer to make less somewhere else.
Meanwhile the owners don't have to pay player salaries.
If there is no Cap and the system stays the same(which seems to be how you want it) the owners keep on losing millions instead of making millions.
But if there is a cap AND the minimum salary is raised, players will go back to making their millions (minus a small fraction,but they're still going to be wealthey nontheless), lower end players will actually make more money and the teams won't have to worry about going bankrupt.
It seems pretty obvious to me who's right.

I here this thrown around a lot as an example of a glorious concession that the righteous owners are offering the players - an increase in minimum salary. Do you know how many of the 750 union memebers would be affected by the proposed increase?

One. Chris Taylor, Buffalo Sabres.
 

shveik

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Thunderstruck said:
If they put their "best offer" on the table and refused to move from that position, no doubt you'd call them intransigent.

It's called negotiating.

If the cap is the only thing acceptable to the owners, then of course they would not offer anything else. However, in 99.999999% of the cases there is more than one way to skin a cat. So Thomas is right to doubt the inflexibility of the owners position. Since the change to the status quo is quite drastic, the owners IMO would have to cancel 2 seasons to convince the players that they are serious.

So, if the owners really need the cap that badly, we should prepare for another season to go down the drain. And it all depends on whether you beleive the owners that the cap is the ONLY possible solution, but I think in either case you can't blame the players for not beleiving them.
 
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