Steve Smith's own goal 1986

[chooch*]

but I have already wasted more time on this topic then it's worth.

That Sharipova is quite a cutie dont ya think, big guy?

 

[chooch*]

I can't believe chooch is still on his anti-Gretzky crusade after his silly points about empty net goals and people "whooping it up" have been battered into oblivion month after month...

What were your brilliant argumenst again, Doc? That Lafleur had more blowout games than 99 (except #10 never played afte rthe 2nd period). Remember the goal that broke Rocket Richards 50 in 50 record? (trolling an empty net + whoop)

or the OIlers werent in a run and gun division it was actually the east coz the ave GF was about the same (good argument except for the little thing about GA!!).

Brilliant.

As for pimpin- who does ads for chevy trucks, who married a bunny, who lives in AZ...

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Thats not why the Oilers lost to a half butted Cowtown squad that had little true "star" power. True dynasties usually don't find themselves on the losing end of quarterfinal series.

the Oilers weren't a tue Dynasty? why not? the team won 5 cups in 7 years and broke many TEAM records

Was Steve Smith unfairly blamed for costing them a cup in 86? I say yes. The Oilers should have been more concerned with team play rather than scoring records and maybe played more defence too. And exonerated Smith more vocally afterwards. He later left to star in Chicago.

what do you got against the Oilers? they were more concerned about records??? ***? THEY WON 2 CUPS IN A ROW PRIOR TO 1986! it takes a team to win the Stanley Cup

I still remember that play, Toe calling for the puck by banging his stick repeatedly on the ice as usual, the rookie defenceman rushing to obey and and it goes in off the goalie's skate. Not a lot of whoop whoops that spring for the Oilers.

But don't blame Smith.

the only ones that blame Smith nowadays are Flamers...yes, the Oilers should've come back to win that game, but they didn't...perhaps that made them more hungry and winning the next 2 Cups

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Remember the goal that broke Rocket Richards 50 in 50 record? (trolling an empty net + whoop)

didn't he score 5 (yes, FIVE!) goals against an Eastern team than you said had a lower GA???

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And no I dont think the Oilers of the 80's were a true dynasty. Look at their GA and defence? Dr Gregg, Huddy, Marty Mac, Fogolin, Lowe was nothing special either. etc. Any of the true dynastic teams would have swept them.

ya, who cares about Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Anderson...if they can't keep the puck out, they're not a Dynasty

didn't the Habs get 1st crack at the french players back in the day? seems REALLY fair!

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

What were your brilliant argumenst again, Doc? That Lafleur had more blowout games than 99 (except #10 never played afte rthe 2nd period). Remember the goal that broke Rocket Richards 50 in 50 record? (trolling an empty net + whoop)

or the OIlers werent in a run and gun division it was actually the east coz the ave GF was about the same (good argument except for the little thing about GA!!).

Brilliant.

As for pimpin- who does ads for chevy trucks, who married a bunny, who lives in AZ...

The difference, cooch, is that Gretzky is a zillionaire who chooses to do whatever endorsements fatten his wallet. He's not been left poor by his orgaization, forced to sell his collectibles or pimp products like phony hair growth tonics and faulty sex organ elixirs to keep off the streets.

Again, though I can understand that your tastes don't find Mrs. Gretzky very appealing, many men like things like playboy bunnies. It's okay though, we won't judge your lifestyle choices if you would please just leave Wayne to enjoy his.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

didn't he score 5 (yes, FIVE!) goals against an Eastern team than you said had a lower GA???

He won't understand that argument, e-town, logic and facts do not compute in his mind.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

What were your brilliant argumenst again, Doc? That Lafleur had more blowout games than 99 (except #10 never played afte rthe 2nd period). Remember the goal that broke Rocket Richards 50 in 50 record? (trolling an empty net + whoop)

or the OIlers werent in a run and gun division it was actually the east coz the ave GF was about the same (good argument except for the little thing about GA!!).

Brilliant.

As for pimpin- who does ads for chevy trucks, who married a bunny, who lives in AZ...

Guy Lafleur never played after the second period? Good luck proving that one...

What did you want Wayne to do, shoot it wide? Cut the guy some slack, he only had scored 4 more goals that game. As for the celebration, he scored his 50th goal in his 39th game, I tihnk a bit of a celebration was warranted...

Bucky is right thoug,h yuo can't see past your silly hate for Wayne anyway...

 

[mcphee]

The difference, cooch, is that Gretzky is a zillionaire who chooses to do whatever endorsements fatten his wallet. He's not been left poor by his orgaization, forced to sell his collectibles or pimp products like phony hair growth tonics and "faulty sex organ elixirs" to keep off the streets.

Again, though I can understand that your tastes don't find Mrs. Gretzky very appealing, many men like things like playboy bunnies. It's okay though, we won't judge your lifestyle choices if you would please just leave Wayne to enjoy his.

Bucky can you clarify your meaning here ? Faulty Sex Organ, elixirs, or is it the elixir that is faulty. Please, this is very important to me, I don't have money to waste on faulty elixirs. As for the thread,I've always thought Fuhr escaped his share of the blame by not being tight to the post. It's nit-picking,but a little attn. to detail and we're spared Mr Smith's anguish. As for the importance of Gretzky's goals or of Guy's, and deciding who celebrated more demonstrably, if I'm ever reduced to that arguement, track me down and put strychnine in above mentionned elixir.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Bucky can you clarify your meaning here ? Faulty Sex Organ, elixirs, or is it the elixir that is faulty. Please, this is very important to me, I don't have money to waste on faulty elixirs. As for the thread,I've always thought Fuhr escaped his share of the blame by not being tight to the post. It's nit-picking,but a little attn. to detail and we're spared Mr Smith's anguish. As for the importance of Gretzky's goals or of Guy's, and deciding who celebrated more demonstrably, if I'm ever reduced to that arguement, track me down and put strychnine in above mentionned elixir.

I'm not sure which is faulty, hoping not to find out in the near future. I think you well know that there are very. very few who actually question the greatness of Lafleur or Gretzky here...

 

[chooch*]

The difference, cooch, is that Gretzky is a zillionaire who chooses to do whatever endorsements fatten his wallet. He's not been left poor by his orgaization, forced to sell his collectibles or pimp products like phony hair growth tonics and faulty sex organ elixirs to keep off the streets.

All I ever said was that ToeGretz was the second best offensive player of his generation, and all hell broke loose. I;ve said many time I liked him as a player and he's pretty classy too. But stuff like the above about Lafleur is ridiculous - its too complicated for someone like Bucky to understand but I can try to simplyfy it for you: Wade Belak is worth more than Jean Beliveau. Big Jean still lives in the starter house he bought in 1955 in Longeuil south of Montreal. And he sold his collectibles recently to help out his daughter and her kids.

The Rocket used to live near me in Montreal and he sold heating oil after he retired.

Gordie Howe got $10,000 a year in pension money.

Ya think Toe Gretz would have supported them in the 1990's fight for increased pensions given how 99 was a "zillionaire". Well no sir 99 didnt want to come out and support the oldtimers and p.o. the NHL, and Gordie and 99 have hardly spoken since. I just dont get it? Maybe you can explain Bucky?

Bucky read this article from Fox:

"Myth: 3. Wayne Gretzky is, without question, the greatest hockey player of all time

To suggest otherwise is blasphemy. Hell, we're practically forbidden by international law from even discussing it.

But there's no way you're going to convince me that a guy with a concave chest who couldn't knock Michelle Kwan off stride was a more dominant player than Bobby Orr, Mario Lemieux or, for that matter, Mark Messier.

All the pro-Gretzky arguments are about numbers. Offensive numbers. Well, hockey is a physical game, and just because a guy was the greatest offensive player in a cartoonish offensive era does not mean he's the greatest hockey player of all time.

But let's look at another number: Gretzky's plus/minus. After leaving Edmonton, where he was surrounded by a bunch of Hall of Famers in their primes, over the last 11 years of his career, he was a net minus. That's right, from 1988-99, when Gretzky was on the ice at even strength, the Great One's teams were outscored by 33 goals. In his last eight seasons, he was a woeful minus-86. You see, backchecking � it turns out � actually helps your team. Crunching a guy into the boards helps your team. Clearing guys out of the crease helps your team. In all these ways and more, Gretzky did not help his teams. Sure, he put up mind-boggling numbers, but wouldn't you rather have your mind boggled than your bones jarred?

Now no one would suggest with a straight face that Gretzky was as good in his own zone as any of the other nominees for greatest hockey player of all time. The case for Gretzky is that he was so much better offensively that it made up for his defensive limitations.
Is this true?

(Sports Nerd Alert: Stat-heavy analysis ahead.)

In his best offensive season, Gretzky tallied a record 215 points. The league average for goals was 7.94 per game. Gretzky's 2.69 points per game average represented 33.8 percent of average goals per game. In his best season, Orr averaged 1.69 ppg, or 24.6 percent of the total goals per game. Do you suppose Orr made up for this gap in his own zone as the best defenseman of all time?

A comparison with Lemieux invites the possibility that Gretzky wasn't even the best offensive player of his generation. In 1988-89, when he scored 199 points, Lemieux's point per game total as a percentage of league average goals was even higher than Gretzky's best year (35 percent to 33.8). So Lemieux not only matched Gretzky as a scorer, but he also lugged the puck from end to end with guys hanging all over him and made goal scorers out of Warren Young, Terry Ruskowski and Rob Brown. Lemieux also had a higher career points per game average than Gretzky before his last two injury-plagued seasons, despite having a career that bridged a high-scoring era and a low-scoring one. As it stands now, Gretzky's career points average (1.92 ppg) is one one-hundredth better than Lemieux's (1.91).

So if Gretzky might not be the best offensive player and is certainly below-average defensively and didn't win as many Cups as Messier, by what measure is he the greatest player ever?

He's not. It's a lie."

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

All I ever said was that ToeGretz was the second best offensive player of his generation, and all hell broke loose. I;ve said many time I liked him as a player and he's pretty classy too. But stuff like the above about Lafleur is ridiculous - its too complicated for someone like Bucky to understand but I can try to simplyfy it for you: Wade Belak is worth more than Jean Beliveau. Big Jean still lives in the starter house he bought in 1955 in Longeuil south of Montreal. And he sold his collectibles recently to help out his daughter and her kids.

The Rocket used to live near me in Montreal and he sold heating oil after he retired.

Gordie Howe got $10,000 a year in pension money.

Ya think Toe Gretz would have supported them in the 1990's fight for increased pensions given how 99 was a "zillionaire". Well no sir 99 didnt want to come out and support the oldtimers and p.o. the NHL, and Gordie and 99 have hardly spoken since. I just dont get it? Maybe you can explain Bucky?

Bucky read this article from Fox:

"Myth: 3. Wayne Gretzky is, without question, the greatest hockey player of all time

To suggest otherwise is blasphemy. Hell, we're practically forbidden by international law from even discussing it.

But there's no way you're going to convince me that a guy with a concave chest who couldn't knock Michelle Kwan off stride was a more dominant player than Bobby Orr, Mario Lemieux or, for that matter, Mark Messier.

All the pro-Gretzky arguments are about numbers. Offensive numbers. Well, hockey is a physical game, and just because a guy was the greatest offensive player in a cartoonish offensive era does not mean he's the greatest hockey player of all time.

But let's look at another number: Gretzky's plus/minus. After leaving Edmonton, where he was surrounded by a bunch of Hall of Famers in their primes, over the last 11 years of his career, he was a net minus. That's right, from 1988-99, when Gretzky was on the ice at even strength, the Great One's teams were outscored by 33 goals. In his last eight seasons, he was a woeful minus-86. You see, backchecking � it turns out � actually helps your team. Crunching a guy into the boards helps your team. Clearing guys out of the crease helps your team. In all these ways and more, Gretzky did not help his teams. Sure, he put up mind-boggling numbers, but wouldn't you rather have your mind boggled than your bones jarred?

Now no one would suggest with a straight face that Gretzky was as good in his own zone as any of the other nominees for greatest hockey player of all time. The case for Gretzky is that he was so much better offensively that it made up for his defensive limitations.
Is this true?

(Sports Nerd Alert: Stat-heavy analysis ahead.)

In his best offensive season, Gretzky tallied a record 215 points. The league average for goals was 7.94 per game. Gretzky's 2.69 points per game average represented 33.8 percent of average goals per game. In his best season, Orr averaged 1.69 ppg, or 24.6 percent of the total goals per game. Do you suppose Orr made up for this gap in his own zone as the best defenseman of all time?

A comparison with Lemieux invites the possibility that Gretzky wasn't even the best offensive player of his generation. In 1988-89, when he scored 199 points, Lemieux's point per game total as a percentage of league average goals was even higher than Gretzky's best year (35 percent to 33.8). So Lemieux not only matched Gretzky as a scorer, but he also lugged the puck from end to end with guys hanging all over him and made goal scorers out of Warren Young, Terry Ruskowski and Rob Brown. Lemieux also had a higher career points per game average than Gretzky before his last two injury-plagued seasons, despite having a career that bridged a high-scoring era and a low-scoring one. As it stands now, Gretzky's career points average (1.92 ppg) is one one-hundredth better than Lemieux's (1.91).

So if Gretzky might not be the best offensive player and is certainly below-average defensively and didn't win as many Cups as Messier, by what measure is he the greatest player ever?

He's not. It's a lie."

Pretty impressive that you just made the post of a lifetime believing you were arguing with someone, bonehead. My post was nothing more than a mockery of the fact that you spend all your time making assinine posts about Wayne Gretzky when legitimate, courteous posters are trying to ask questions like "Is peter nedved a number one center?". I have nothing against the impoverished legends of the montreal canadiens, in fact I have nothing but respect for them.. My mockery is ingenuine, but seems to ring true in the inspired thoughts of the feeble minded..

 

[chooch*]

Pretty impressive that you just made the post of a lifetime believing you were arguing with someone, bonehead. My post was nothing more than a mockery of the fact that you spend all your time making assinine posts about Wayne Gretzky when legitimate, courteous posters are trying to ask questions like "Is peter nedved a number one center?". I have nothing against the impoverished legends of the montreal canadiens, in fact I have nothing but respect for them.. My mockery is ingenuine, but seems to ring true in the inspired thoughts of the feeble minded..

sure sure, buckminster - youre not bright enough to see through the Toegretz veneer. you know nothing about the Habs legends nor do you show any respect for them.
"ingenuine" "my mockery is ingenuine"

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

You know, it's funny how you talk about Wayne whooping it up late in games against poor defensive teams yet your praise Mario as some sort of God.

At the same time though, you refuse to acknowledge the fact that Mario whooped it up more than anyone, ever by tallying nearly 40% of his career goals on the power play. That's a ridculous number especially considering he's not even at 700 goals yet.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

sure sure, buckminster - youre not bright enough to see through the Toegretz veneer. you know nothing about the Habs legends nor do you show any respect for them.
"ingenuine" "my mockery is ingenuine"

When you give up posting your hate and return to your prior hobby of pulling wings off flies, I shall be eternally grateful.

 

[se7en*]

you know nothing about the Habs legends nor do you show any respect for them.

You show no respect to the Oilers, so why the F should we respect the Scabs?

And YOU telling someone they don't "know nothing" about anything? That, is irony at it's very finest!

 

[Malefic74]

didn't the Habs get 1st crack at the french players back in the day? seems REALLY fair!

To be fair, that ended in 1969 with the institution of the Amateur Draft and the Canadiens only got ONE (1) player from that protection, post-expansion. Marc Tardif. Interesting note; had it continued for just one more year the Habs would have had Gil Perreault.

In the Original 6 era all six teams had protected areas in Ontario, Western Canada, the Northeast US. So while it is true that Montreal had a territory for 50 miles around Montreal, the same was true for Toronto.