Blue Jays Discussion: Steve Pearce: comeback machine

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Nasty Nazem

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Apr 5, 2010
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Ideally they would trade him and then sign him back in the offseason. But an extension of some kind would be nice, too.

Only thing is, Jays could probably re-sign him real cheap at the moment. If he continues to pitch well towards the end of season or with another team and potentially has a good post-season as well then his price will likely sky rocket.

If Jays can re-sign him to a 1 year/10M deal or so, I'd do it.
 

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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He's asking if teams can make trades in August without players passing through waivers if the players involved are deemed ineligible for the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I have nothing to back that up and hadn't even considered the possibility until now.

I only really thought of it because the NHL deadline. There are no trade waivers and you can trade after the deadline fine you're just not playoff eligible. The waiver deadline in baseball is a similar rule, so I wondered if all MLB non-waiver trades were abolished after 4 PM ET July 31st, or if it was just a similar if you want to make a non waiver trade an be eligible for the playoffs you better do it before now type of thing.
 

theaub

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Nov 21, 2008
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No any player traded in August that's on a 40-man roster needs to be passed through waivers.

Even for the non-playoff eligible trades in September, the same concept applies.
 

hockeywiz542

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chicago – nori aoki doesn’t really count. The japanese outfielder is a nice player who puts up a pesky at-bat and runs a little bit with some control, but is most likely a candidate to be non-tendered when arbitration time comes next fall, sure to be expensive for what he is. it’s teoscar hernandez who is the first substantial piece of the toronto blue jays’ retooling for 2018, a 24-year-old outfielder with an array of tools and the ability, gm ross atkins believes, to contribute as an everyday player relatively soon.

The two other players acquired ahead of the non-waiver trade deadline – double-a left-hander thomas pannone and short-season rookie ball infielder taylor samad – are much further away on the horizon, for now nothing more than organizational assets with upside.

Against the framework of a buyers’ market for rental relievers, that’s a pretty solid return for lefty swingman francisco liriano, sent to the houston astros with cash for hernandez and aoki, and joe smith, the set-up man sent to cleveland for the two minor-leaguers.


still, the heavy lifting in refreshing a roster decimated by injury and plagued by underperformance is to come, aided somewhat by a partial sell-off of their few expendable assets able to fetch a reasonable return.

"it’s always about, first and foremost, what’s the best asset-value for this organization. If that’s in future, or if that’s in now, or if that’s somewhere in between, in a vacuum it’s always going to be about what makes us better," atkins said on a conference call monday evening. "in executing these two deals today, we feel we’ve accomplished both."

“more and more, teams are able to assess the difference in value of, in this case, an a-ball middle infielder and a double-a pitcher versus a triple-a outfielder to determine which one is more valuable. We’re glad that we got all of those today."
the blue jays’ asking prices were high on everyone, according to rival executives, and given the number of alternatives available, buying clubs were reluctant to discuss their better prospects for rental relievers, offering no "sexy front-line guys," according to one, without extended control.
among the names the blue jays are believed to have discussed in some form in recent weeks are atlanta braves outfielder nick markakis, oakland athletics infielder jed lowrie and st. Louis cardinals outfielder randall grichuk.
 

dredeye

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Mar 3, 2008
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Quick question, the waiver trade deadline is a deadline for teams to trade for players via trade waivers who can play on their MLB roster during the playoffs. However you can trade for players after the waiver trade deadline but they aren't eligible for the playoffs.

Is the non waiver trade deadline similar? For example could we trade say Pillar right now to some random team, without going through trade waivers, except the team acquiring them can't play them in the playoffs?

All players have to be placed on revocable waivers to be traded now. Every team can put in a claim on said player. It's not like other sports. Once a team puts in a claim the Jays can then negotiate a trade, give said player away for nothing or pull him back from waivers. If they can't work out a trade with that team then can move on to the next team that put in a claim on that player. Essentially every team can put in a claim. Priority goes worst to be in said players league so in your example American League first and then worst to best in the national league.
 

TheTotalPackage

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2018 will be a big year. If this team is like this one it'll be blow up mode.

Boy are the Jays treading dangerous water. I don't think a full rebuild is necessary, but I hope the direction of this team of trying to compete next year with an eye on the future is one that Shapiro and Atkins thinks is best and isn't as a result of being told by ownership. Tough not to think that when ticket prices have been raised for next year and the team has been enjoying three years of great attendance.

I suppose I'm contradicting myself by thinking that blowing things up in 2018 would be one year too late, yet I don't deem a full rebuild necessary.
 

Woodman19

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Jun 14, 2008
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Boy are the Jays treading dangerous water. I don't think a full rebuild is necessary, but I hope the direction of this team of trying to compete next year with an eye on the future is one that Shapiro and Atkins thinks is best and isn't as a result of being told by ownership. Tough not to think that when ticket prices have been raised for next year and the team has been enjoying three years of great attendance.

I suppose I'm contradicting myself by thinking that blowing things up in 2018 would be one year too late, yet I don't deem a full rebuild necessary.

How are they treading dangerous water? This is baseball not the NBA where talent is found really only in the top 5 of the draft. We are continually hoarding and buying prospects while signing players (like Pearce, Happ and Estrada) to continue competing now. We are able to have our cake and eat it too, this year we were simply destroyed by injuries but it worked last year as well.
 

Discoverer

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How are they treading dangerous water? This is baseball not the NBA where talent is found really only in the top 5 of the draft. We are continually hoarding and buying prospects while signing players (like Pearce, Happ and Estrada) to continue competing now. We are able to have our cake and eat it too, this year we were simply destroyed by injuries but it worked last year as well.

If they start giving up prospects for short-term improvements, I'll agree that they're "treading dangerous water". But yeah, the short-term moves they've made so far have been cheap, low risk, 1-3 year contracts to free agents. There's no reason to believe they aren't focused on the future. Sure, they're trying to be good now because they have enough good players that it makes sense to try to compete, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.
 

TheTotalPackage

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How are they treading dangerous water? This is baseball not the NBA where talent is found really only in the top 5 of the draft. We are continually hoarding and buying prospects while signing players (like Pearce, Happ and Estrada) to continue competing now. We are able to have our cake and eat it too, this year we were simply destroyed by injuries but it worked last year as well.

I don't disagree because I believe the team can contend.

I just hope that when Atkins said yesterday the team had to "stay relevant", it didn't stand in the way of possibly doing what they wanted to do. It didn't sound like something that aligns with Shapiro's and Atkins' philosophy. But it may be a matter of me simply having the wrong impression of their long-term blueprint.

As I alluded to regarding Stats01's point, 2018 would be the wrong time to decide to blow things up in my opinion when your assets are further diminished.
 

canucksfan

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I don't disagree because I believe the team can contend.

I just hope that when Atkins said yesterday the team had to "stay relevant", it didn't stand in the way of possibly doing what they wanted to do. It didn't sound like something that aligns with Shapiro's and Atkins' philosophy. But it may be a matter of me simply having the wrong impression of their long-term blueprint.

As I alluded to regarding Stats01's point, 2018 would be the wrong time to decide to blow things up in my opinion when your assets are further diminished.

I believe they will try to patch the holes with low risk short term deals. In the outfield they could try one of Hernandez/Smith/Alford. What's different in 2018 compared to 2017 is they are more likely to have youth come up. The depth sucked this year mainly because they didn't have youth available for a few reasons. First, the good prospects the Jays have are mostly at lower levels. Second, injuries to Alford and Smith. Finally, poor years by Greene, SRF and Tellez had an impact as well. I remember reading that if Smoak falters Tellez would be waiting but his first year in AAA has been a disaster.

With that there are some question marks. Will Travis remain healthy? Can Smoak have similar numbers? Is JD on the decline? How productive can Tulo be?
 

hockeywiz542

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i gave them a d+," olney said. "it was the fourth-lowest grade out of the 30 teams in baseball."

however, olney said he believes it was the play of the players in the end that made things difficult on management and cost them on monday. Pending free agents marco estrada, francisco liriano and jose bautista have all had poor campaigns this season, so their trade value dropped significantly from where it previously sat.

"i don't really blame the front office for this, i think they were incredibly unlucky as we talked about it last week with so many of their pending free agents having miserable seasons which cut into their trade value," he explained. "but you can't get around the fact that you're not going to get much return when a liriano is having a bad year, when an estrada is having a bad year, when a jose bautista is having a bad year.

"that was absolutely devastating for them and let's face it, you get (nori) aoki with team control, helps you in the outfield but it's not that much of an upgrade and didn't change trajectory into 2018. That would have been your biggest goal heading into the trade deadline."

monday's deadline may have also been the best time to shop the likes of third baseman josh donaldson if the jays were considering a full rebuild, but without a deal donaldson's marketability may have taken a nose dive.
while talking with other teams, olney says the impression they got was that jays ownership did not want to go through a whole rebuilding cycle and potentially upset their fan base. In the long run, though, upsetting the fans now may have paid off in the future.

"i heard [donaldson] talked about with other organizations, but the perception that they had was that toronto's front office and ownership is very cognizant that they fill their ballpark every day and they weren't ready to go through a rebuilding cycle and talk about guys like josh donaldson and like marcus stroman," said olney. "baseball wise, that may have been the best way to go."

olney, however, believes the blue jays might not be done with making moves. Marco estrada could still be dealt before the waiver deadline at the end of august, with many teams including the boston red sox and new york yankees looking for pitching depth.

"a team like the red sox, who started doug fister last night but he's been up and down, they would be a perfect potential landing spot [for estrada]," he explained. "the yankees, depending on how some of their young pitchers respond to the increasing number of innings, they could be a team that could make a waiver claim. All the teams that are chasing the astros are going to have a shot at him before houston does."
 
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Eyedea

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Jan 29, 2012
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Going through a rebuild would not upset very many fans.

Most of the Jays fans I know would be more upset by the team pretending to contend when we have no real chance at a World Series.

"Most of the Jays fans I know" does not equal "very many fans"

You take away the star power and drop the payroll to 50m you're going to see less than 25k people at the dome.
 
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