Step 1 IIHF agreement complete

[ShadowFax]

Step 1 is now complete. Hiring a new leader of the Russian Hockey Federation. He also has connections to the NHL. Should be alot easier to get a deal done now.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=163831&hubname=

Click to read more...

 

[Michael Morbid]

Step 2: ?

Step 3: Profit!



Anyways, it'll be nice for them to get this thing finished so guys like Malkin can come on over and potentially dominate the NHL.

 

[shureshot66]

Step 2: ?

Step 3: Profit!



Anyways, it'll be nice for them to get this thing finished so guys like Malkin can come on over and potentially dominate the NHL.

"Did it just get cold in here?"

 

[illogic]

Step 2: ?

Step 3: Profit!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

This is a positive result for Russia too. Which is the reason why most deals get done, they benefit both sides. That game of chicken was coming to a head with Malkin and Russia stood to lose. Malkin planned on going from everything that I read and if he left and his club got nothing, Russia could spin it any way that they wanted but it would be open season on their players and they would end up with zip. Or have to go hat in hand and sign the agreement at that point. Russia is much better off signing on now and getting the increased negotiated amounts from the agreement everyone else signed than ending up with nothing. Malkin will net his team a quarter million dollars, right? That is why I knew that this deal would be done by summer.

 

[Siberian]

Hahaha - quarter million? You meant quattro million? I guess still many do not understand thar Russian Hockey Federation has very little to say about the decisions PHL (Professional Hockey League) makes. The Federation only is responsible for putting together Russian national teams, and can not tell professional clubs what to do with their own business. Of course, Tretiak somehow could be interested in getting the deal done and try to influence PHL but the bottom line is the teams will probably want to settle for a high payoff. Think about last year - Russia only lost one player to NHL, so out of 18 teams 17 are happy. Of course Dynamo probably regrets about losing one million that NHL was offering for Ovechkin, but the other clubs do not really care. Ok, for example Metallurg wants to get paid this year for Malkin, they will probably agree to the deal if NHL will pay 1 mil, but others don't give a damn losing players like Grigorenko etc for 200-250 thousand, so there will probably no deal unless NHL talks serious money.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Hahaha - quarter million? You meant quattro million? I guess still many do not understand thar Russian Hockey Federation has very little to say about the decisions PHL (Professional Hockey League) makes. The Federation only is responsible for putting together Russian national teams, and can not tell professional clubs what to do with their own business. Of course, Tretiak somehow could be interested in getting the deal done and try to influence PHL but the bottom line is the teams will probably want to settle for a high payoff. Think about last year - Russia only lost one player to NHL, so out of 18 teams 17 are happy. Of course Dynamo probably regrets about losing one million that NHL was offering for Ovechkin, but the other clubs do not really care. Ok, for example Metallurg wants to get paid this year for Malkin, they will probably agree to the deal if NHL will pay 1 mil, but others don't give a damn losing players like Grigorenko etc for 200-250 thousand, so there will probably no deal unless NHL talks serious money.

How about revisit this thread in say . . . July. And see how your predictions hold up?

 

[Siberian]

What predictions? That Russians will not settle for 250 G for Malkin? If they do there is something behind all this because 250G is not even money for Metallurg owners. They can easily pay Malkin around 2 million just to see him back. 2 mil I believe is the least amount Velichkin is looking for in order to depart with Malkin. I would say that it would make sense for Russians to sign a deal something like 1.5 mil for the first rounders, 750 for second round and 500 for third and fourth rounds. Everything else can go for 250. But NHL won't go for it because as soon as they do all other Europeans will follow that. So what will probably happen is Russians will sign the deal similar to the one signed by IIHF with more money paid under the table. That is the only solution for NHL because they desperately need Malkin, he is worth to NHL and the Penguins way more than 2 mil so are probably willing to pay whatever it takes to get him this summer.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Under the table money? Please. This is not an Oliver Stone movie. My prediction is that Russia signs the IIHF agreement by the start of next season. Or Malkin is on the Pens for zip, nada, not one red cent. And how about a wager if you are so sure that it will be otherwise. If you all take up the wager, it will be that you wear a Crosby avatar for a month, I will wear an Ovechkin one if I am wrong.

 

[Siberian]

Oliver Stone? I can guarantee you one thing, there is no way Velichkin lets Malkin go for zip, this is one of the tightest people in Russian hockey, so Malkin with his contract and no out-clause will either stay in Metallurg or he will go to the Pens for significant amount of dollars either through some sort of NHL agreement or with money under the table. That is my guarantee to you!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Oliver Stone? I can guarantee you one thing, there is no way Velichkin lets Malkin go for zip, this is one of the tightest people in Russian hockey, so Malkin with his contract and no out-clause will either stay in Metallurg or he will go to the Pens for significant amount of dollars either through some sort of NHL agreement or with money under the table. That is my guarantee to you!

So we have a bet?

 

[Siberian]

I guess you just don't get it. You can't prove anything when it comes to something done behind the closed doors. Look, at the end Washington paid for Ovechkin, Columbus paid for Zherdev and Anaheim paid for Chistov, Montreal paid for Kostitsyn - it is not the matter whether NHL clubs pay but the matter of how they pay. But you understand that this is impossible to prove. You also don't understand the point that even if Russia signs IIHF agreement in the same condition Europeans signed a year ago it will not mean that Russians will get paid equially with other European clubs. It will probably mean that Russian clubs again will be paid under the table.

Simply put, Steblin who left his position from PHL (Don't mix with FHR) wanted to sign the same deal all the europeans signed because he had some interest in it but because more owners in Russia want to do the business fairly and cleanly now that did not happen. Like I said, NHL would prefer to pay under the table than let European clubs know that they have been had by NHL - that will probably not happen and Russia will not get a separate agreement, but it is hard to predict.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The under the table talk is tin foil hat material. But if anyone wants to take me up on that bet, I am perfectly willing.

 

[MaV]

My prediction is that Russia signs the IIHF agreement by the start of next season. Or Malkin is on the Pens for zip, nada, not one red cent.

Do you really think it makes any difference if Metallurg gets that 250K from the agreement? They are ready to pay their players millions of dollars, so wouldn't you say that getting Malkin to play this year because of not signing the agreement would be worth losing that small transfer money? This is the situation there is going to be also in the future too. A couple of more years from the top young players is worth more than small amount of cash.

 

[HockeyCritter]

As far as I know, and based on conversations with Leonsis and various other Capital officials, the Caps never "paid" for Ovechkin --- they will not do so until there is a valid, signed IIHF transfer agreement.

The Caps did "pay" for Semin because he came over when there was still a valid IIHF transfer agreement --- they paid no additonal funds to ensure his return in time for the 06/07 season.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Do you really think it makes any difference if Metallurg gets that 250K from the agreement? They are ready to pay their players millions of dollars, so wouldn't you say that getting Malkin to play this year because of not signing the agreement would be worth losing that small transfer money? This is the situation there is going to be also in the future too. A couple of more years from the top young players is worth more than small amount of cash.

You miss the point. Malkin wants to come over. Absent the agreement there is a very good chance he just comes and Metallurg does not get a dime. But even worse, once players see that then it is a free for all for all Russian players.

Let us say on the small chance it goes the other way though. Malkin despite his wishes is forced to stay. Some 'victory' there, eh? Russian players would never sign for more than a year and might even opt to go to North America if they have any desire to play in the NHL at all to avoid the issue entirely.

As I said above, I think that there will be a deal because it is in BOTH parties best interest overall.

 

[HockeyCritter]

My prediction is that Russia signs the IIHF agreement by the start of next season. Or Malkin is on the Pens for zip, nada, not one red cent.

That is not correct; the NHL thus far is not accepting Russian Federation players with VALID contracts. If the player has a legally negotiated out-clause, he is allowed to play in the NHL. The NHL adopted this “policy†in the absence of a signed, valid, legal IIHF mainly to keep the lines of communication open and to foster good will between the two sides.

The only thing that allows Malkin to dress for the Pens next season is a signed IIHF agreement (though some debate that fact as he signed a deal without the guidelines presented by the IIHF – if it is true, that is a relatively small legal matter to deal with).

 

[Sammy*]

You miss the point. Malkin wants to come over. Absent the agreement there is a very good chance he just comes and Metallurg does not get a dime. But even worse, once players see that then it is a free for all for all Russian players.

Let us say on the small chance it goes the other way though. Malkin despite his wishes is forced to stay. Some 'victory' there, eh? Russian players would never sign for more than a year and might even opt to go to North America if they have any desire to play in the NHL at all to avoid the issue entirely.

As I said above, I think that there will be a deal because it is in BOTH parties best interest overall.

No, no, no. Dont you understand. No Russians can apparently leave there club teams.Their indentured for life. Furthurmore, the only guys that come over is when money is "paid under the table". In fact, I understand the next season of "24" is going to deal with that specific matter.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That is not correct; the NHL thus far is not accepting Russian Federation players with VALID contracts. If the player has a legally negotiated out-clause, he is allowed to play in the NHL. The NHL adopted this “policy†in the absence of a signed, valid, legal IIHF mainly to keep the lines of communication open and to foster good will between the two sides.

The only thing that allows Malkin to dress for the Pens next season is a signed IIHF agreement (though some debate that fact as he signed a deal without the guidelines presented by the IIHF – if it is true, that is a relatively small legal matter to deal with).

Bettman threatened as much when he went to Russia to try to hammer out an IIHF deal last summer. Explicitly. My guess is that behind the scenes this was brought home to the Russians and that negotiations have been going on quietly. There is no reason for the NHL to poke Russia in the eye with this, right now. If contract talks fall through I expect the NHL to follow through on some of those threats.

 

[Siberian]

I wonder what those threats are you are talking about?

 

[HockeyCritter]

No, no, no. Dont you understand. No Russians can apparently leave there club teams.Their indentured for life. Furthurmore, the only guys that come over is when money is "paid under the table". In fact, I understand the next season of "24" is going to deal with that specific matter.

Wow --- that sounds like an awesome season!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Bettman said specifically that Russian clubs risked getting nothing if they did not sign onto the IIHF agreement. I linked the articles quoting Bettman last August when he said just those things when he went to Russia. He also said that the NHL would NOT allow any NHL clubs to negotiate separate transfer agreements for players.

Again, I will happily lay that bet above that an agreement gets signed this summer. Both sides have something to lose, including the NHL. Even with saying the above, the NHL benefits from the certainty of cost and method of players coming over from Russia.

 

[Siberian]

Also, like I said before IIHF is an organization that should not even be in the same room when there are talks between Russian PHL and NHL. IIHF is just an organization that orhanizes international hockey tournaments - that is it. I already made an example with FIBA in basketball and how they have nothing to do with the transfers of European players to NBA. I guess Fazel is really a smart dude - he fooled them all: Czechs, Swedes, Finns etc and became a middle man between NHL and European professianal clubs. IIHF is a parent organization of FHR, which is just an equivalent of Hockey Canada or Hockey USA, who in their turn have absolutely zero control over NHL clubs and their ownership. The reason why Fasel fooled them so easily is because they were all weak, poor and stupid, but in Russia things are changing when it comes to hockey.

 

[HockeyCritter]

Bettman threatened as much when he went to Russia to try to hammer out an IIHF deal last summer. Explicitly. My guess is that behind the scenes this was brought home to the Russians and that negotiations have been going on quietly. There is no reason for the NHL to poke Russia in the eye with this, right now. If contract talks fall through I expect the NHL to follow through on some of those threats.

I don’t …… mainly because it’s a two-way street. If you say it’s acceptable for Russian players to break valid Russian contracts to play for the NHL, then you better be prepared for the fact that players with valid NHL contracts to break their deal to go to Russia (and it will happen). Furthermore, it is quite easy for the Russians to hold players, players that have legally negotiated their way OUT of a contract and into the NHL by denying passports or losing visa paperwork.

This is a can of worms that nobody wants opened. Bettman does not have a legal nor ethical leg position to force this issue.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don’t …… mainly because it’s a two-way street. If you say it’s acceptable for Russian players to break valid Russian contracts to play for the NHL, then you better be prepared for the fact that players with valid NHL contracts to break their deal to go to Russia (and it will happen). Furthermore, it is quite easy for the Russians to hold players, players that have legally negotiated their way OUT of a contract and into the NHL by denying passports or losing visa paperwork.

This is a can of worms that nobody wants opened. Bettman does not have a legal nor ethical leg position to force this issue.

There apparently was a law regarding workers getting out of any employment contract with two weeks notice that would make it more a one way street. That was mentioned in those articles that I linked.

That said, I agree totally that both sides have something to lose here if this is not resolved. That is why I am saying that it will get resolved this summer, and even am betting on that prediction. A bet none have taken by the way. Though admittedly it would be no great hardship to wear an Ovechkin avatar for a month in the unlikely event of my losing this bet. I really have nothing at all against the kid and enjoy watching him. It might kill some of these Russian fans to wear a Crosby avatar for a month though.