Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Funny thing is, I haven't seen him yet. I'm going more on last year's viewings and things I read based on my ranking of him.
steblick does a BM (early draft top 10)
- Thread starter Hiishawk
- Start date
Funny thing is, I haven't seen him yet. I'm going more on last year's viewings and things I read based on my ranking of him.
Good job, Steblick, i like at least seven of those guys as top tens at this juncture. Korostin and Kane are two missing names that certainly have top ten potential.
I like your inclusion of
i..he's climbing for sure. Personally I think you have Turris, Riemsdyk, and Cherepanov too high...Espo, Voracek and Ellerby too low. Time will tell.
Agreed. I had the opportunity to watch Turris in a pre-season game for the World Junior A Challenge. I think he's the best player to come out of Canadian Junior A since Dany Heatley. He's a terrific player who should be a top 15 pick in the draft. (I hope the Canucks pick him). But I wouldn't rate Turris as No. 1. That's not to say he won't be the best player from his draft year, but I don't think a team would take a Junior A player first overall. There's just that stigma of "I want to see what he does at college or major junior" no matter how fallacious that attitude might be.
I do respect steblick for having the guts to rate him No. 1, though.
helicecopter
Registered User
Ehm, not actually.. since no draft is going to be held in the next few days and he preimised:
"here's who I think would go top 10- in order- if the 2007 draft were to be held tomorrow (not my own top 10 but these are the names getting the best reviews around hockey circles so far)"
my top 10 aswell
I'll post mine, too:
1. Jakub Voracek
2. James Van Riemsdyk
3. Sam Gagner
4. Kyle Turris
5. Angelo Esposito
6. Mark Katic
7. Logan Couture
8. Nick Petrecki
9. Jim O'Brien
10. Patrick Kane
Honorable mentions: Oscar Möller (Chilliwack, WHL), Lars Eller (Fröunda J20 SuperElit), Nick Ross (Regina, WHL)
My top ranked goalie is Tyson Sexsmith.
As for the guy who listed Pat White playing for Grand Rapids, isn't he with Tri-City of the USHL?
I'll post mine, too:
1. Jakub Voracek
2. James Van Riemsdyk
3. Sam Gagner
4. Kyle Turris
5. Angelo Esposito
6. Mark Katic
7. Logan Couture
8. Nick Petrecki
9. Jim O'Brien
10. Patrick Kane
Honorable mentions: Oscar Möller (Chilliwack, WHL), Lars Eller (Fröunda J20 SuperElit), Nick Ross (Regina, WHL)
My top ranked goalie is Tyson Sexsmith.
As for the guy who listed Pat White playing for Grand Rapids, isn't he with Tri-City of the USHL?
huh?
Searching really hard for a debate are you? Try the street corner, bring a hat.
Well, the list is as up-to-date as possible- I think that Espo, Voracek are well-established but not breaking away from the pack while others are coming on. The scouting services tend to be a little behind (or conservative even) in this regard- as they update about once a month only.Good job, Steblick, i like at least seven of those guys as top tens at this juncture. Korostin and Kane are two missing names that certainly have top ten potential.
I like your inclusion of
Personally I think you have Turris, Riemsdyk, and Cherepanov too high...Espo, Voracek and Ellerby too low. Time will tell.
I know that you have some scouting contacts too but these are the names that are getting the big talk recently. In fact, after Turris' Russia game I heard one NHL GM mention that "we might a historic first- a #1 from the BC league" this year. James VR is getting a lot of talk from the same people including "2 straight years with a #1 from the USNTDP" talk. Cherepanov is constantly being harped upon by my Russian friends and contacts. They say he's the best FW from that country since Malkin and could (upside) end up in the same category
. And i was all the rage after the 5 nations in Pitea.Well, the list is as up-to-date as possible- I think that Espo, Voracek are well-established but not breaking away from the pack while others are coming on. The scouting services tend to be a little behind (or conservative even) in this regard- as they update about once a month only.
I know that you have some scouting contacts too but these are the names that are getting the big talk recently. In fact, after Turris' Russia game I heard one NHL GM mention that "we might a historic first- a #1 from the BC league" this year. James VR is getting a lot of talk from the same people including "2 straight years with a #1 from the USNTDP" talk. Cherepanov is constantly being harped upon by my Russian friends and contacts. They say he's the best FW from that country since Malkin and could (upside) end up in the same category
Hey - don't take it personally, always enjoy your insight....but I'm guessing you didn't sample a very large cross section of scouts, because none that I've talked to have a current list anywhere close to what you posted. I talked to several scouts in the past week, my feedback is as up to date if not more than yours.
Agree with
i getting hype after that tourney, not getting the same feedback on Cherepanov, especially comparing him to Malkin.BTW - if he's anywhere close to Malkin, he should be number one on your list, with the next guy light years behind. There are no Malkins in this draft that's one thing I'm really certain about.
Again; it depends on your contacts I suppose. Did your GM friend miss the Russians at the Junior A challenge because if they were watching they'd have noticed Korostin's skills as well. In fact I've talked to two scouts that liked Korostin more than Turris after seeing the challenge, yet you have Turris first overall and Korostin nowhere in the top ten. Puzzling.
I don't know of a single scout that has van Riemsdyk anywhere near his top two, nor Turris, which makes me wonder which scouts you're talkng to. They are on the fringe of the top ten with most of the scouts I've talked to, nowhere near the top two, and that was after the junior challenge. A potential top ten pick better look good in a junior A challenge considering few of the players in the whole tourney will even be drafted.
Depends which scouts you're talking to I guess, I talk to plenty of them, and more than one tells me that Espo is number one, and that was this week.
Well, we are talking to different people- which is normal. There are a few hundred out there.Hey - don't take it personally, always enjoy your insight....but I'm guessing you didn't sample a very large cross section of scouts, because none that I've talked to have a current list anywhere close to what you posted. I talked to several scouts in the past week, my feedback is as up to date if not more than yours.
Agree with
BTW - if he's anywhere close to Malkin, he should be number one on your list, with the next guy light years behind. There are no Malkins in this draft that's one thing I'm really certain about.
Again; it depends on your contacts I suppose. Did your GM friend miss the Russians at the Junior A challenge because if they were watching they'd have noticed Korostin's skills as well. In fact I've talked to two scouts that liked Korostin more than Turris after seeing the challenge, yet you have Turris first overall and Korostin nowhere in the top ten. Puzzling.
I don't know of a single scout that has van Riemsdyk anywhere near his top two, nor Turris, which makes me wonder which scouts you're talkng to. They are on the fringe of the top ten with most of the scouts I've talked to, nowhere near the top two, and that was after the junior challenge. A potential top ten pick better look good in a junior A challenge considering few of the players in the whole tourney will even be drafted.
Depends which scouts you're talking to I guess, I talk to plenty of them, and more than one tells me that Espo is number one, and that was this week.
Korostin is top 20 guy I'd say, size is the factor there and defensive commitment is a question. Skills are top-shelf though. Cherepanov, to the best of my knowledge hasn't played outside of Europe and I haven't seen him in awhile. I will soon. But note that I did say he has a Malkin-ish upside and in fact his current performance in the Russian league is similar to that of Malkin's a 17 year old. But that's UPSIDE- and if that upside starts to look more and more like a reality then, yes, he could become no.1. But it's true that Russians and Tier 2 guys are hard to judge.
As for scouting samples, I COULD doubt your sample because they're not saying what I've heard too... but I won't and don't because I think we're just talking a wide variety of different hockey people and sort of reporting back to this board. Your ear is legit and I believe what you say about the people you've talked to- I'm just letting you (and others) know what I've seen and heard.
For what it's worth, I think Woodlief has JVR at #2 (correct me if I'm wrong) so the Assistant GM (not a friend, an acquaintance) who made the JVR comment is not really out there on his own. From this board Jon Prescription is not a scout but knows the US players very well and ranks him thereabouts. The name comes up often in scout talk but again a number of people will want to wait for the WJC's or U18s before vaulting him into very highest slots as happened with EJ last year.
As you said, we'll see. I imagine you'll be right on some and me on others.
Real interesting reading here seeing what some posters who are talking to scouts(and some who just know some of the players well) are thinking regarding the players in this years upcoming draft.Not being in the same position as some here its great to get a picture of how people are seeing these young guys at this important stage of their career.
upsides,negatives,positives,how the league they are playing in is determining what players guys like or dont like,and it is being done respectfully without much malice,simply stating why and how one is thinking that way..................great stuff.I wish there was more of this and done in the way it is being done around here.
Keep it coming if possible.
upsides,negatives,positives,how the league they are playing in is determining what players guys like or dont like,and it is being done respectfully without much malice,simply stating why and how one is thinking that way..................great stuff.I wish there was more of this and done in the way it is being done around here.
Keep it coming if possible.
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
This sounds like it's shaping up to be a great year for teams to have very unique lists which diverge significantly from eachother. Almost every draft year I feel most fans really underrate just how widely divergent some of the individual team opinions are from some of the published rankings (although now that we have so many published options to choose from, it helps illustrate the divergence somewhat better, but still...). This year sounds like it could end up being one of the "least-consensused" years ever, which IMHO is always a lot more fun than a year in which you can pretty much call the shots marching down the draft order (in the first round anyway). Last year it was rather predictable at the top, but got fun later on. If this year pushes the uncertainty right into the upper echelons of the first round, that'd be great! (Still early, but I'm hoping! 
).
).
helicecopter
Registered User
Meh.. what are you talking about dude?
really.. i only pointed out that time won't tell a thing about that Steblick top 10 since he specified:
"So, here's who I think would go top 10- in order- if the 2007 draft were to be held tomorrow (not my own top 10..)"
I agree 100%. This kind of talk is why I come here. I can't fly around watching prospects, but here you've got fans from all over Canada talking about players they see regularly, fans from US talking about American players (primarily the ones playing on the USNDTP team, but also USHL, some high school hockey, and some CHL), and Europeans talking about players from their respectives countries (or players who've played in tournaments from other countries that they've seen play). Really, you can't find any of this insight anywhere else in one spot. Sure you can look at Central Scouting, Redline, McKeens, and ISS, but anyone can look at those sources, and we have contributors to McKeens and ISS posting here, which supplements the information we get elsewhere. To top it off, you've got guys like Bob McKenzie, steblick, and turnbuckle (and probably more--Juan, for one, seems connected, at least in junior hockey) posting here who have actual scouting/NHL contacts, and steblick is a former scout himself; if you don't have connections, where else but here can you actually find out what NHL scouts are thinking? This probably sounds like a testimonial, but if you're interested in draft eligible prospects (and prospects who'll be draft eligible within the next four or five years), I don't think there's a better place than hfboards.
steblick, turnbuckle, and everyone else who sees these kids play, keep it up--your insights are definitely appreciated.
johnny canuckistan
Registered User
- Nov 14, 2006
- 2,139
- 0
Damn straight! The opinions posted here (from those in the know especially, but even from novices) are extremely interesting.
ISS Hockey
Top30 Draft Rankings
We here at ISS had vanRiemsdyk ranked No. 2 in our November rankings.
One factor I find interesting (non top ten, but somewhat related) is that I suspect that Kyle Turris' rising star (and while i'm not going to say he's the #1 guy, I don't think anyone will dispute that he has very real top ten potential) is going to attract more organizations to pay more attention to the BCHL this season.
Combined with Casey Pierro-Zabotel's hot start, I don't think its unreasonable to assume that there will be more games watched this year than most before. It'll be interesting to see if this results in MORE players selected from the league in later rounds.
Combined with Casey Pierro-Zabotel's hot start, I don't think its unreasonable to assume that there will be more games watched this year than most before. It'll be interesting to see if this results in MORE players selected from the league in later rounds.
What I found interesting was that Pierro-Zabotel only ranked as a "B" player in the CSS rankings. I figured he'd be higher.
Also on the BCHL, I believe Salmon Arm has at least a couple of players that stand a good chance of getting picked, do they not? Ben Winett is the only one I know off the top of my head...
it is probably the best part of the boards when it happens in the right attitude by all involved.
I don#t get to see many of these players until or if they make the nhl and i sure dont get to bend the ears of any scouts.it is interesting as hell to read these threads when it goes off good.
Learn a heck of a lot too.
I'm glad readers enjoy these types of posts. I enjoy reading some of the Swedish poster's posts regarding that league, MS from the WHL, LaLaPrise from the Q, JonP and Max (Sharkie) from the US. I don't agree with all of what they say but while I may see the players in their area only a couple of times (almost 0 with USHL for me), they see them regularly.
Readers should note that most NHL scouts are not making top XX lists at this time of year. Individual scouts have not seen enough prospects yet to make a meaningful ranking. What I hear is not "this guy is #15 on my list" but more like, "this guy looks like a contender for a lottery pick" or "possible first rounder". They are keying in on so-called priority players at this point but that's about 100+guys. Most scouts are ranking these players on a 5 point scale- not on a "top 100" list. Any rankings at this point will be rather localized, a bit like CSS's. After their team gets enough reports they can average out these scores and make an initial ranking which will change considerably as scouts change coverage zones or the head scout enters a new area.
Some scuttlebutt- turnbuckle brought up Korostin. I was actually in on a scouting conversation comparing Cherepanov and Korostin of the "who'd you take now" variety. Word was that Cherepanov has grown in leaps and bounds this year and that his impact for his team was like Malkin's was at a similar age. The response was "Well, if he's anything like Malkin.." which was followed by "Judging how he's going so far if he keeps developing like that it's a possibility" and "The Russians are sure hyping him, X said he's the best coming down the pike in a while".
Of course I've heard a lot of hype that didn't turn out before. We'll know a lot more before the year is out but don't be surprised if Cherepanov doesn't become a consensus lottery pick- and possibly the top dog. But it's generally the guys from the lesser known (or harder to rate) leagues that make the late pushes up the rankings.
Readers should note that most NHL scouts are not making top XX lists at this time of year. Individual scouts have not seen enough prospects yet to make a meaningful ranking. What I hear is not "this guy is #15 on my list" but more like, "this guy looks like a contender for a lottery pick" or "possible first rounder". They are keying in on so-called priority players at this point but that's about 100+guys. Most scouts are ranking these players on a 5 point scale- not on a "top 100" list. Any rankings at this point will be rather localized, a bit like CSS's. After their team gets enough reports they can average out these scores and make an initial ranking which will change considerably as scouts change coverage zones or the head scout enters a new area.
Some scuttlebutt- turnbuckle brought up Korostin. I was actually in on a scouting conversation comparing Cherepanov and Korostin of the "who'd you take now" variety. Word was that Cherepanov has grown in leaps and bounds this year and that his impact for his team was like Malkin's was at a similar age. The response was "Well, if he's anything like Malkin.." which was followed by "Judging how he's going so far if he keeps developing like that it's a possibility" and "The Russians are sure hyping him, X said he's the best coming down the pike in a while".
Of course I've heard a lot of hype that didn't turn out before. We'll know a lot more before the year is out but don't be surprised if Cherepanov doesn't become a consensus lottery pick- and possibly the top dog. But it's generally the guys from the lesser known (or harder to rate) leagues that make the late pushes up the rankings.
#1GuinFan
Registered User
Hey - don't take it personally, always enjoy your insight....but I'm guessing you didn't sample a very large cross section of scouts, because none that I've talked to have a current list anywhere close to what you posted. I talked to several scouts in the past week, my feedback is as up to date if not more than yours.
Agree with
BTW - if he's anywhere close to Malkin, he should be number one on your list, with the next guy light years behind. There are no Malkins in this draft that's one thing I'm really certain about.
Again; it depends on your contacts I suppose. Did your GM friend miss the Russians at the Junior A challenge because if they were watching they'd have noticed Korostin's skills as well. In fact I've talked to two scouts that liked Korostin more than Turris after seeing the challenge, yet you have Turris first overall and Korostin nowhere in the top ten. Puzzling.
I don't know of a single scout that has van Riemsdyk anywhere near his top two, nor Turris, which makes me wonder which scouts you're talkng to. They are on the fringe of the top ten with most of the scouts I've talked to, nowhere near the top two, and that was after the junior challenge. A potential top ten pick better look good in a junior A challenge considering few of the players in the whole tourney will even be drafted.
Depends which scouts you're talking to I guess, I talk to plenty of them, and more than one tells me that Espo is number one, and that was this week.
I have to echo turnbulls thoughts here. What i'm hearing is that Turris has entered the top 10, but is not #1 material... at the moment. That could come as the season progresses, but right now consensus is not #1. however, the contacts turnbull and I have are very similar given we work for the same people at McKeens (although I'm sure Turnbull's contact base is a little better than mine right now).
JVR is in the same boat as Turris. he's rising a should make a push for top 5 status VERY soon IMO.
I too was surprised to see Cherepanov in your top 10. i thought I might have had him ranked too high (just outside top 20), but top 10 is too much at the moment I think.
meanwhile Korostin is like JVR and Turris, but he doesn't show up in your top 10. Based on my contacts' information he'll definitely be the first russian drafted barring an abismal second half or if someone like Cherepanov substantially elevates his play.
nevertheless, I like seeing others lists who are also connected to get an idea for the thoughts/opinions of others.
X-SHARKIE
Registered User
NHL Scouts are a quiet bunch from what I've seen at the Buc-Bowl ect. over the years.... they hardly let a peep out but they do time to time and although it's brief, it can tell you a lot... So I believe that it's quite possible that the scouts that Steblick are talking to say Turris is worth #1 and JVR is a top 2 selection, while the ones that Turnbuckle are talking to are saying something totally different.
They don't buy into hype much it seems, and just go by their instincts from the few I've talked with. So it's more than possible that if Turnbuckle interviewed four scouts, that they would have completely different opinions then the four that Steblick interviewed.
Ahhh, I love the world of NHL prospects And this just reaffirms my belief that his draft crop is all over the place and will be extremely difficult to predict who goes where and why.
They don't buy into hype much it seems, and just go by their instincts from the few I've talked with. So it's more than possible that if Turnbuckle interviewed four scouts, that they would have completely different opinions then the four that Steblick interviewed.
Ahhh, I love the world of NHL prospects
And this just reaffirms my belief that his draft crop is all over the place and will be extremely difficult to predict who goes where and why.Sharkie's right about scouts being discrete. They often won't tell you where they rank a player personally- for obvious reasons- but they'll often provide a consensus view. For example, you'll hear "X looks like a first round guy" because they know the player is pretty well-regarded around the league.
On the other hand, they won't often say "I have this guy rated a 3.2 or 15th overall" unless you're REALLY in tight with them. Some scouts I've known a long time are reasonably frank with me- but sometimes ask me not to make certain things public, including on this board. I suspect others might be repeating scouting consensus or even disinformation, although you get a 6th sense for filtering out the latter after a while.
On the other hand, they won't often say "I have this guy rated a 3.2 or 15th overall" unless you're REALLY in tight with them. Some scouts I've known a long time are reasonably frank with me- but sometimes ask me not to make certain things public, including on this board. I suspect others might be repeating scouting consensus or even disinformation, although you get a 6th sense for filtering out the latter after a while.
hey steblick.............who do you happen to like out of all the guys you've gotten a good look at? i know you've ranked them here according to i guess a mixture of what you think and what you've heard scouts talk about and have placed them according to your best guess to how you think the top ten will maye round out.but if you were picking them all how would you order them? i'd appreciate it and be most interested to hear.
I know earlier in the year you(i think it was you) were'nt high on a guy like petrecki because you thought his hockey sense was rather low but now i see a poster like prescription has loved how he seems to have come around in that area,have you seen his games this year and think he has made progress that way too and moved up your list?
i'd just be interested to hear what you think on this.
