Stats that you wished were kept

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Scott1980, Jun 22, 2011.

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  1. Scott1980

    Scott1980 Registered User

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    Any stats that you feel could been kept track, to get a better appreciation for players? I was thinking back to my Pro Set cards of 1990/91 where it would mention the number of winning goals AND tying goals sometimes. I think tying goals can be just as important as winnings goals. Anyways:

    Tying goals (Lafleur needs this!)

    Blocked Shots By Position Players (All you Bobby Orr fans, get ready. And hey, the NBA does keep track!)

    Games Started By Goalies (They sort of, have started this I notice. Now it's like baseball. I know, don't you dare say that I should reward a relief goaltender with a save if he doesn't get the win!)

    Passes completed / missed (I guess the missed is sort of a giveaway, some keep track of that. This would give a more clear indication on who the best passers are)

    Shot breakdown (You know, if a player misses them net all the time and the time he gets it "on" he scores, does that make him a better shooter than someone who hits the net more but scores less?)

    First and Second Assists.

    Offensive Zone Time (That old game for my Genesis did this, why didn't the NHL?)

    Any others? What do you think?
     
  2. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    Shots "at" the net, like in soccer.
     
  3. Scott1980

    Scott1980 Registered User

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    Thank you! I was looking for short term for that!
     
  4. plusandminus

    plusandminus Registered User

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    I have a whole bunch of wishes. But for some reason, not the ones you suggest. I hope you don't mind me commenting them. I think they are mostly very arbitrary. We already know that takeaways and giveaways are arbitrary and not should be taken very serously. I know soccer measures a lot of things like metres run/walked, passes made, succeded passes, etc. But in hockey, how would you handle things like dump and chase? Or passes that are good but where the receiver fumbles? Or shots that are intentionally not on goal, in order to get deflected? Game winning/tying goals are just being discussed elsewhere here, so you know how I look upon them. ;)
    1st and 2nd assists can be interesting, but usually the guy with lots of assists also have lots of 1st assists, so usually assists alltogether is sort of enough.
    Sorry if I sound not so positive to your ideas/suggestions. Your views of course counts as much as mine. ;)

    I'll write a new post with my suggestions.
     
  5. plusandminus

    plusandminus Registered User

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    I have many opinions regarding stats...
    Main thing is probably to separate ES, PP and SH. Nothing prevents one from treating each similarly. We should have a PP+/-, with goal scored during PP gives +1 and goal allowed during PP gets -1.
    (Do not confuse this with the traditional +/-, which includes ES+, ES-, PP- and SH+.)


    Individual player stats.

    Some spontantious examples (Name Pos Team GamesPlayed is always shown)...

    Basic stats:

    G A Pts +/- TotalGoalsFor ES+/- PP+/- SHtimePerGame PenaltyMins

    Basic stats extended:

    G A Pts +/- TotalGoalsFor, ES+/- GF GA ESpts PP+/- PPpts SHtimePerGame SH+/- PenaltyMinutes

    Even strength (all stats only focusing on what happens during ES play):

    TimePerGame TotalTme G A Pts +/- GF GA MakingOpponentPenalized GettingPenalized PointsDividedByGF

    Power play: (all stats only focusing on what happens during PP play):

    TimePerGame TotalTme G A Pts +/- TotalTimeDividedBy+/- GF GA PointsDividedByGF
    MakingOpponentPenalized GettingPenalized

    Short handed play(all stats only focusing on what happens during SH play):

    TimePerGame TotalTme +/- TotalTimeDividedBy+/- G A Pts GF GA MakingOpponentPenalized GettingPenalized


    Reagarding the penalties stat, it should not be used for when "one guy from each team" gets penalized. Otherwise, there would usually be for example A slashing/interfearing B, where A "getting penalized" and B "making opponent getting penalized". Puck out, 6 men on the ice, etc. are special cases that needs to be thought about in advance.

    Total goals forward is important as hockey is a team sport. Basically, it would combine GF for ES and PP (not many goals are scored during SH), which could be interesting to watch.
    Total goals against is a pretty useless stat. Show short handed time instead.

    TotalTimeDividedBy+/- is great when it comes to see how effective players are during PP, or how good they are during SH.
    We might for example see that player C needs 11:42 mins of PP time to "score a goal forward", while player D only needs 8:49 mins.
    For SH, we may notice how E can play only 6:33 between each goal allowed, while player F can play 10:56 between "each allowed goal". (Of course quality of own goalie, etc. will bias usage of stat, but still.)
    Here, we always should think +/-. So if on ice for 2 PP goals forward, and 1 allowed, during 20 mins. We get 20 / (2-1) = 20.

    I do find it strange that the above stats not are made more attention.

    Shots on goal can be showed to. And face off stats, perhaps also separately for each situation.

    Some empty net goal stat should also be shown, so we can see how it affects/bias the other stats.
     
  6. plusandminus

    plusandminus Registered User

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    Team stats

    Standings

    GP WonWithoutExtrapoint WonThanksToExtrapoint LossGivingExtrapoint LossWithoutExtrapoint GF GA Pts GoalDifference

    Notice the won-loss should be showed as 4 columns, not the way it is now, and that it is symmetrical (from best to worth).

    One could also show it as:
    Detroit 44 23 (18+5) 21 (6+15) ...
    Easy to see how many wins, as well as how many of each kind.


    Powerplay

    GP TimePerGame TotalTime +/- GF GA TotalTimeDividedBy+/- Opportunities

    I find opportunites least important. TotalTime should be the main thing to look at.
    Also, it's a bit detestful to only focus on goals forward. Focus on +/- instead!!
    Just show us how much PP time a team needs before each goal scored (or to be exact, each +1 in the +/-)

    If one wants a percentage, add another column. But then show percentage as "likelyhood of scoring during a 2 minute time" rather than that opportunity stuff.

    Short handed

    GP TimePerGame TotalTime +/- GF GA TotalTimeDividedBy+/- Opportunities

    Same as PP. Same thinking too.
    Show us how much SH time a team can manage between each goal allowed (or to be exact, each -1 in the +/-).

    Even strength

    GP TimePerGame TotalTime +/- GF GA TotalTimeDividedBy+/- Opportunities

    Here we might also want to see time between each goal forward, as well as each goal against. In this sentence you are just reading, and the ones immediately surrounding it, I'm not talking +/- but rather looking at GF and GA separately. I wish I could find a good word/term to make communication easier.


    Total shots on goals for each situation and overall. Shots against too.
    Perhaps also the penalty information showed above.
    Perhaps faceoff stats for each situation as well as overall.

    Basically, every stat that can be made for a certain situation can be made for the others too. Also, team stats can also be applied to players. For example, the PP effectiveness above can also be used to list the most effective players.
     
  7. ColdSteel2

    ColdSteel2 Registered User

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    Penalties drawn. For example, last year Stalberg and Skille didn't take many minors but they drew a lot of them with their speed and didn't get enough credit for it.
     
  8. plusandminus

    plusandminus Registered User

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    Some examples (made up)...

    Team penalty killing: rank teams based on time played between each +/-

    Detroit 14:43, Boston 13:44, Philadelphia 13:05, Vancouver 12:56, and so on

    Detroit gets a penalty during game. Stat is being shown to viewers, telling about the 14:43 as well some percentage show the likelyhood of Detroit allowing a goal during this particular SH play.

    Team powerplay rank:

    Pittsburgh 9:36, Vancouver 9:49, Detroit 10:14, Washington 10:31 and so on.
    Show a percentage too, if wanted.

    Most effective players during PP:

    Crosby 5:44, Iginla 6:43, Malkin 6:45, Zetterberg 7:01 and so on...

    "Best" penalty killers (own goalie bias, etc. not considered):

    Datsyuk 15:12, Lidstrom 12:44, Zetterberg 12:25, Kesler 12:21 and so on...

    Players creating most powerplays (causing opponent to get penalized):

    H.Sedin 42 times (90 mins, based on 40x2 + 2x5), D.Sedin 42 times (90 mins, 40x2, 2x5), Crosby 41 times (100 mins, 35x2 + 6x5) and so on...

    Players causing most short handed situations:

    Similar as above, but with different names and numbers.

    On the ice for most goals forward

    H.Sedin 144 (90+54+0), D.Sedin 144 (90+54+0), St Louis 135 (88+47) and so on...

    Highest point contribution to goals forward when on the ice

    Crosby 90.0 % (45 pts during 50 GF), and so on...


    Bonus:

    Highest GF contribution of own teams all GF overall

    Crosby 66.67 % (on ice on 50 of own teams total of 75 goals), and so on...
     
  9. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    I believe they actually do track that now. I keep hearing that Jeff Skinner led the league.



    ENG would be great but I've never seen it in its own column. Also, deflection goals. Basically, anything that gives us some insight as to how goals are scored.
     
  10. Wee Baby Seamus

    Wee Baby Seamus Yo, Goober, where's the meat?

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    I'm pretty sure that to get credit for a shot, it has to be on goal. This already exists
     
  11. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    Some of the stats mentioned in this thread (like penalties drawn) are kept on http://www.behindthenet.ca. There's lots of interesting stuff on that site, though I personally find their charts a bit complicated to navigate through.

    Empty net goals scored are on NHL.com.
     
  12. Rants Mulliniks

    Rants Mulliniks Registered User

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    I've always wanted to see puck possession by zone (team stat per game).
     
  13. Hockey Team

    Hockey Team Hunger Force

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    I'd like to see how many saves relief goalies get.

    A save situation is where the winning goal is on deck.
     
  14. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    puck possession by player.
     
  15. LeBlondeDemon10

    LeBlondeDemon10 BlindLemon Haystacks

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    Time in possession of the puck, times player brings the puck into the other teams zone, shots attempted by player and scoring chances created per game. I think they may be compiling stats of the last one on hockeyreference.com under the Goals Created per game, but I don't know how they calculate that stat.
     
  16. Rhiessan71

    Rhiessan71 Just a Fool

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    I would like to know how many times the main board has been flooded with posts about over-hyped/they are now the greatest ever/one or two good year players? ;)

    I think the numbers would be staggering.
     
  17. Iain Fyffe

    Iain Fyffe Hockey fact-checker

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    Am I missing something here, or is the OP?
     
  18. Dangler99*

    Dangler99* Guest

    How Many Games a player has played at the NHL's leading scorer.
     
  19. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    I'm saying shots at the net, but not on the net.

    For example, a shot that gets blocked... a shot that hits the post... a shot that goes just over the crossbar.

    Right now, what they're really counting are saves + goals.
     
  20. plusandminus

    plusandminus Registered User

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    Why do you think that would be interesting? What would it tell you (except the obvious "he has shot 42 shots at net, of which 22 has been on the net")?

    Would it make sense to distinguish between "shots aimed at goal but missed", "shots intentionally shot just outside the net in order to get deflected", "shots that would have been on goal, if not for own player had stood in the way", "shots blocked by diving opponent", etc..?
     
  21. 5lidyzer19

    5lidyzer19 Registered User

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    Hfboards would love a +/- classless Subbans stat.


    I'd like a "came away with the puck in a corner/along the wall scrum" type of stat, unless there already is one.
     
  22. plusandminus

    plusandminus Registered User

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    Why do you want to know that?
    Do you mean the current leading scorer, or the winner of previous season's Art Ross?
    If current, how would you deal with the fact that different teams/players having played different number of games? If Crosby had 25 points in 14 games (Pittsburgh having played only 14 games), and Perry was leading scorer with 26 points in 18 games
    If I understand you right, this stat could suddenly change at any moment, depending on who is leading?
     
  23. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    I think the value is self-evident. How often are players and teams really shooting the puck?

    To the extent that it's possible, that information would be great as well.

    Keeping track of "posts hit" could be very interesting, for example during a playoff series or cold streak.

    "Shots blocked" would also be valuable for distinguishing those players who can get the puck to the net better than others.

    "Shots deflected" could also be a good one, both for the shooter and the deflecting player.
     
  24. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    Last year a blogger kept track of a "Board Battles W/L" for Montreal for a few games. It got a lot of criticism here, but I thought it was a great way to identify which players were contributing to team success. You could certainly see a difference between the grinders and the floaters, not only in the W/L but in the total number of battles they were willing to attempt.
     
  25. Sensfanman

    Sensfanman Registered User

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    Puck Possession Time
    Passes Made and Attempted
    Hits gaining possession vs Hits not gaining possession (all hits are not equal)
    Same as Hits but with Blocked Shots

    Everything currently tracked and mentioned by Offensive, Neutral and Defensive zone.

    Basically, puck location for any change in possession as well as the cause of that possession change.


    That being said, step one would be actual valid tracking of the stats we do have. Hits, Blocks, Giveaways, and Takeaways are trash the way the monitor them now (Home bias fail).
     

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