State of the Franchise: How Many Guys are Unplayable?

Run the Jewels

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One thing that may eventually become a positive is to focus on how many guys on the roster are actually playable, meaning would be a positive contributor on a decent hockey team. Right now this list is going to be pretty brutal, and we can discuss the reasons for that which I'm sure many of us will agree or agree to disagree on.

But as a starting point since we are clearly the worst team in the league this seems like a productive way to track our performance over the coming seasons under our new GM.

So with that said, here are the guys who I think are totally unplayable with a bit of justification for my belief. Please feel free to add more or criticize my adding anyone to this list you disagree with or my rationale for adding them.

Forwards:
Frans Neilsen: pacing for 0 goals and <10 points on the season. Charitably there may be a spot for him further down the roster, but that's a tough pill to swallow at $5.25m per year.

Justin Abdelkader: same offensive production as Neilsen. $4.25m per year and no longer the physical presence he once added as Pavel Datsyuk's piano puller. His one positive is a 0 plus/minus.

Erne, Ehn, Perlini: these are all minor contributors so no big deal with any of these guys. They are all easily replaceable. Combined they make less than $3m and are all RFAs after this season.

Defense:
Jonathan Ericsson: it's pretty clear Big Rig has nothing left. He's in his final year and it'd be a shock if he was signed to a new deal.

Trevor Daley: same as Big Rig. This likely his final year in Detroit if not the NHL.

Dennis Cholowski: this may seem a bit harsh, but he was on pace to go -60 and we were routinely getting blown out with Cholo on the ice. I understand some think all he needs is more time, but the fact he doesn't even belong in the NHL at nearly 22 years old should be a pretty glaring bad sign, particularly when you compare him to Hronek. This could change, but right now he is totally unplayable.

Goalie:
Jimmy Howard has been really bad all season. He'll get another shot and may look better, but throughout his career he has tailed off as the season has gone on. He has two wins and is conceding an average 4 goals per game. He's in his final year and will likely retire after this season.

Overview:
Keeping Perlini out of the mix as an in-season addition, that means 4 of our starting 12 forwards are not NHL quality players, 3 of our starting 6 d-man aren't either, as is the case with our starting goaltender.

Yzerman has his work cut out for him. At the top of his list is likely a scoring line center to replace Neilsen and ease the load on Larkin. Neilsen, Abby and to a lesser extent, Helm are all guys who are being paid well above the role they play and are signed for multiple years. You'd like to see younger, cheaper players take their roles in the bottom 6 where all these guys belong, but you still have to pay their salaries even if they end up in Grand Rapids.

He also needs at least one big minute defenseman and has to hope DeKeyser can play a big role for the remainder of this contract. If that all works out he has a solid top 4 on defense with Hronek, DeKeyser and probably Seider filling three of those top 4 roles. I'd argue that scoring center is the bigger need but top 3 d-man is a close second as far as biggest need is concerned.

Yzerman also needs a starting goaltender, however this should be reasonably easy to fix in the short term, There are almost always quality goalies available and it is rarely necessary to offer them lots of term. Remember Yzerman got Dwayne Roloson early on in Tampa at the tail end of Roloson's career and he carried the Bolts to the Eastern Conference Finals.

We are currently in year one of the Yzerman Plan and it's bad, really bad. I'm curious to see how he handles this offseason, primarily his first real draft with his NA scouting team along with Hakan handling his usual Euro scouting beat. I'm also interested to see what he does with Blahsill. I've been fine with Blashill as I suspected he'd be a good fit for tanking purposes. We've gotten a few top 10 picks and should get a top 4 pick this summer. Does Yzerman keep him around to coach when we are once again competitive with fewer or no unplayable players on the ice? I've been a Gerard Gallant fan but I'm fine with whatever Yzerman decides. As I've said before I will give him 5 years to turn things around before I make any negative comments about how he has handled the rebuild.

Ok this is long enough. Let me know if you agree or disagree with any of this.
 
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Snuggs

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Jun 24, 2018
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I agree with a lot of this. Quite frankly. I've not given up per say on Cholowski but he should be playing high minutes in the AHL and work on his defensive game strictly. Other guys despite the salary will have to be pushed down to 3rd and 4th line minutes in an attempt to squeeze value out of there last years( Helm/Neilsen ) I think Abdelkader will get bought out or waived next offseason.

Don't mind calling Yzerman out when he makes a move I don't like but I've understood everything he's done essentially outside of keeping Blashill but that might be a financial reason more than hockey reasons.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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I agree with a lot of this. Quite frankly. I've not given up per say on Cholowski but he should be playing high minutes in the AHL and work on his defensive game strictly. Other guys despite the salary will have to be pushed down to 3rd and 4th line minutes in an attempt to squeeze value out of there last years( Helm/Neilsen ) I think Abdelkader will get bought out or waived next offseason.

Don't mind calling Yzerman out when he makes a move I don't like but I've understood everything he's done essentially outside of keeping Blashill but that might be a financial reason more than hockey reasons.

Yzerman kept Blashill because he believes in him as a coach and the system philosophies he developed with other Yzerman favorite Cooper. There are no financial reasons restricting that, he was in on the decision to extend him.

One of the first rumors I remember hearing after he left Tampa is that he would keep Blash in place for his roster assessment.
 
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Snuggs

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Yzerman kept Blashill because he believes in him as a coach and the system philosophies he developed with other Yzerman favorite Cooper. There are no financial reasons restricting that, he was in on the decision to extend him.

One of the first rumors I remember hearing after he left Tampa is that he would keep Blash in place for his roster assessment.

I mean you can assume what you said to be true like I'm assuming what I said. It's not a fact or anything it's just what I think. Yzerman was still employed by the Lighting technically when Blashill was resigned so. Idk. Maybe you're right he was in on it but I'm pretty sure that'd of been illegal considering he was still technically under contract with the Lighting. All's I'm saying is it's rough to fire a guy ownership just approved an extension for without even giving him a chance.

Maybe he was in on the extension maybe he wasn't? Who knows?

Do you think he's worth letting go at the end of the season now?
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
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I mean you can assume what you said to be true like I'm assuming what I said. It's not a fact or anything it's just what I think. Yzerman was still employed by the Lighting technically when Blashill was resigned so. Idk. Maybe you're right he was in on it but I'm pretty sure that'd of been illegal considering he was still technically under contract with the Lighting. All's I'm saying is it's rough to fire a guy ownership just approved an extension for without even giving him a chance.

Maybe he was in on the extension maybe he wasn't? Who knows?

Do you think he's worth letting go at the end of the season now?

Depends on who is available.
 

Retire91

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Yzerman said this would be an observation year I am not expecting seriously large moves or trades and also no new coach. I think Yzerman doesn't do anything until the offseason and the few roster tweak trades he has done that are low risk high reward. I feel like we have 6-7 players on the current roster that have a potential future here, everyone else is replaceable or negative value.
 
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Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
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Yzerman said this would be an observation year I am not expecting seriously large moves or trades and also no new coach. I think Yzerman doesn't do anything until the offseason and the few roster tweak trades he has done that are low risk high reward. I feel like we have 6-7 players on the current roster that have a potential future here, everyone else is replaceable or negative value.
Yeah, I mostly agree with this. I wouldn't mind a deadline deal or two if there's one to be made. Glendening may be of interest to a playoff team and while I am not eager to trade Athanasiou I would certainly listen to offers. I wouldn't settle for a poor return, but if someone made me a good offer I'd be willing to trade him. I've always been willing to trade Mantha for a top 3 d-man and with his recent injury history I'm even more willing to move him but now may not be the time.
 
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Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
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Admittedly I haven’t watched the majority of games this year, but from the bits I’ve seen Erne looks like a useful player on the forecheck and cycle, I wouldn’t give up on him yet.

Would agree Perlini has looked utterly useless, sadly.
Yeah, this is a totally reasonable take. I haven't given up on Erne and he could prove useful. At this point I don't think he's going to live up to the middle 6 spot we were hoping was his ceiling but it was a low stakes move. Nothing wrong with those, not every move will result in a Fabbri-like player.
 

Flowah

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Yzerman said this would be an observation year I am not expecting seriously large moves or trades and also no new coach
I don't expect him to fire Blash or move anyone like Larkin or Hronek. I think he's seriously considering just about literally everyone else. He's said as much. He's talked about how much he wants to load up on draft picks. The only way to do that is ship out some of the dead weight for picks. Picks anywhere. You get enough picks in the 4, 5, 6, rounds and you'll hit a winner eventually. Just buys more tickets to the "late round draft steal" lottery.
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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I don't expect him to fire Blash or move anyone like Larkin or Hronek. I think he's seriously considering just about literally everyone else. He's said as much. He's talked about how much he wants to load up on draft picks. The only way to do that is ship out some of the dead weight for picks. Picks anywhere. You get enough picks in the 4, 5, 6, rounds and you'll hit a winner eventually. Just buys more tickets to the "late round draft steal" lottery.

I would agree I just don't see it happening until the off season. Maybe if Yzerman's urgency changes he will pull some triggers at the trade deadline but I still wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't other than maybe if someone wants green or howard or daley players that expendable. I think Yzerman wanted a full season to digest what is happening before making sweeping changes.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
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Whaddya know...that small handful of players in blue on the GAR chart coincides perfectly with my, "I'd prefer not to trade these guys (but feel free to deal the rest)" list.
 
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Henkka

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It's still interesting when you bring up one line of talented kids (Veleno, Rasmussen, 2020 1st, Seider etc.) and re-direct those opening millions (17.7M of dead weight) and get some injured players back. This team will be totally different than current one.

The swing upwards will happen faster and sooner than no one can believe.
 

ArmChairGM89

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Dec 10, 2019
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Frans Nielsen is the most useless player I’ve ever seen in my life. Last game he literally f***ed up a drop pass... a drop pass! Like the kind you just leave there for someone. Where, to execute, you just don’t do anything. You just leave it there and skate away.

I was actually really excited about picking him up. But it’s like he had a hate for the red wings his entire life and signed here just to f*** us. The switch that guy flipped was insanely drastic. I’ve never seen anything like it.
 
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Hen Kolland

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Whaddya know...that small handful of players in blue on the GAR chart coincides perfectly with my, "I'd prefer not to trade these guys (but feel free to deal the rest)" list.

I'm actually pretty happy with the Nemeth signing, but I don't see how teams in need of defense aren't calling on him every single day. He goes beyond the standard rental useful life, and at $3 million with how steady he has been defensively...I feel like his value has to be high to a defensively lacking team. Someone like the Maple Leafs.
 
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ArmChairGM89

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I'm actually pretty happy with the Nemeth signing, but I don't see how teams in need of defense aren't calling on him every single day. He goes beyond the standard rental useful life, and at $3 million with how steady he has been defensively...I feel like his value has to be high to a defensively lacking team. Someone like the Maple Leafs.

agreed on nemeth. But he’s the kind of steady sound defensive player I’d like to keep around for the young guys to play with. Obviously everyone has a price, but my price would be high for him.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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agreed on nemeth. But he’s the kind of steady sound defensive player I’d like to keep around for the young guys to play with. Obviously everyone has a price, but my price would be high for him.

I'd be willing to move him, but in no hurry. Especially with Dekeyser being out for the year, it's really a difficult proposition to send out the only plus defensive player on the blue line. By this of course I am looking exclusively at defense; Hronek is an important player because of what he brings on the offensive end, but he is still prone to getting lost in our own zone.
 
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vladdy16

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Aug 2, 2005
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Dennis Cholowski: this may seem a bit harsh, but he was on pace to go -60 and we were routinely getting blown out with Cholo on the ice. I understand some think all he needs is more time, but the fact he doesn't even belong in the NHL at nearly 22 years old should be a pretty glaring bad sign, particularly when you compare him to Hronek. This could change, but right now he is totally unplayable.

Strong disagree. Lazy analysis that ignores context in favor of reaching a conclusion imo. The premise of this thread, combined with a look at who Cholowski's D and F partners have been, is enough to make your take on him pretty dubious in itself.

Cholowski compares well to Hronek imo. Cholowski's strengths have been underrated and misinterpreted thus far in his career, and his weaknesses, I'm still not convinced are even weaknesses. It is a good thing for top-4 d-men to be passive defensively if they have good vision and scoring chance identification/iq.

I expect Cholowski to be similarly impressive to Hronek whenever he can get consistent time as the lead on a top 4 pair, whether it's in DET or VAN or wherever. And I still think there's a good chance that once/if Seider and Cholowski become a pairing, there will be a dramatic uptick in everyone elses expectations for Cholowski's ceiling.

People like to take Blashills misidentification of Cholowski as an offensive d-man, "who doesn't know when to punt", combine it with his garbage year and garbage stats, and they think he is this floundering undersized pace pushing hot dog, who has struggled to translate his one-dimensional game. That's not the player he is, or will be. Cholowski has a keen sense for punting, being risk adverse, positioning his teammates and slowing the pace of play. The more like minded, talented people he gets to play with, the more that will eventually shine through. Though people would've called Nick Lidstrom a weak offensive d-man for who knows how long before they realized having a low key, smart 5th man back can really make a difference in scoring chance suppression in the long run.

I think the premise of your post is right on, if not too conservative. I think the Griffins would beat the Red Wings a lot of nights, and I think you may have underestimated the number of players in our nightly lineup that would be passed on by every other team if available for free. A 22 yo defensemen, that got rushed to the NHL doesn't fit into that narrative at all imo.
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Cholowski compares well to Hronek imo..

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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,230
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Never saw a response like this coming...

Brave analysis there Frk.

How could you say that as of today he compares well to Hronek? I mean that's just beyond ridiculous... there's no argument to be made there.

Do I think Cholowski catches too much flak on here? Yeah, for sure. But you are overcompensating for that drastically in your post that I quoted.
 
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