Starting A Franchise: Matthews+Marner VS McDavid

[Lemontree]

McDavid scores more assists than Matthews does points. That is a significant difference.

Sure if you want to ignore games played. Can we flip that and say Matthews had almost as many goals as McDavid did points in their rookie seasons. Before you label me anything, McDavid is a much better scorer than Matthews and he has already reached a level that AM most likely will not but I could see Matthews closing the gap over their careers.

Matthews could flirt with 50 goals a season on the regular and be a 85 point player in the near future, Marner could be a 75 - 80 point winger very soon. I will absolutely take that over only McDavid even if he does win the Art Ross every year.

 

[Varan]

I see a guy who played 17 less games and had 16 more points, pretty big gap.

you mean embarrassingly huge gap

 

[zeke]

well, how are their franchises doing?

 

[zeke]

can you explain the point of those arguments? I've never understood how P/60 can actually help make someone's case when ice time is highly variable

it's because ice time is so variable that p60 is crucial.

 

[Iggys Dome]

I'm a Flames fan so I get to see McDavid rip my team apart about 6 times a year. The gap between Matthews and McDavid is huge. Like, insanely f***ing huge. Not enough for someone like Marner to surmount. Some Leafs fans don't get it, some don't want to get it, but it's the truth.

Perhaps the only comparable between the two is goalscoring, which is a coin flip for me, because McDavid can create so many chances on his own he'll probably score 40-50 a year if he wants to (if he's healthy). His shot is getting better. His speed is obviously generational, probably once in a lifetime type stuff. His playmaking, hands and IQ are good enough that they can keep up with his speed, so that puts him above Matthews based on that alone (he had more assists last season than Matthews has had his entire career, lol). He's defensively responsible, it's not his fault that he plays for that tire fire of an organization and they can't surround him with proper talent.

I'll take McDavid over Matthews and Marner every single day, 365 days of the year. You put competent management in control of McDavid, and any team he is on is an instant contender overnight. Matthews and Marner are great, elite even (although I'm not totally sold on Marner yet), but like the fact that 26% of this poll is voting for them just screams homerism. If McDavid wore the blue Maple Leaf, he'd be better than Gretzky already to everyone.

 

[frag2]

well, how are their franchises doing?

Neither team accomplished anything but I guess one won a playoff series.

 

[Peggy]

Sure if you want to ignore games played. Can we flip that and say Matthews had almost as many goals as McDavid did points in their rookie seasons. Before you label me anything, McDavid is a much better scorer than Matthews and he has already reached a level that AM most likely will not but I could see Matthews closing the gap over their careers.

Matthews could flirt with 50 goals a season on the regular and be a 85 point player in the near future, Marner could be a 75 - 80 point winger very soon. I will absolutely take that over only McDavid even if he does win the Art Ross every year.

But they're neither of those
So it's just a hypothetical
Why even bother using marner'a and Matthews' names? If were going by hypothetical numbers

 

[Pucklington]

Not really.

If this thread was the way reality worked, we can extrapolate it further:

McDavid>Matthews+Marner
Drai>Nylander
RNH=Kadri
Nurse, Klefbom, Sekejra, Larsson>Rielly, Zai, Hainsey, Gardiner
Talbot<Anderson
Maroon<JVR

The idea that McDavid is better to build around than Matthews and Marner was tested last year with the two similar cores competing, we saw the results, despite Edmonton's core potentially being even slightly better.

If I'm right and McDavid is just a better player than Matthews (not making him look like a chump as you put it), then Marner puts that duo over the top considering that Matthews is the better goal scorer and has similar enough p/60 numbers that getting a 70 point 2nd year winger that got demoted for nearly 25% of the year to the 4th line.

But don't let me bring up other facts than points, excuse me bringing up TOI, PP TOI, goals and taking the conclusion of this thread and running with it.

You started the thread and are throwing a hissy fit.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I'm a Flames fan so I get to see McDavid rip my team apart about 6 times a year. The gap between Matthews and McDavid is huge. Like, insanely ****ing huge. Not enough for someone like Marner to surmount. Some Leafs fans don't get it, some don't want to get it, but it's the truth.

Perhaps the only comparable between the two is goalscoring, which is a coin flip for me, because McDavid can create so many chances on his own he'll probably score 40-50 a year if he wants to (if he's healthy). His shot is getting better. His speed is obviously generational, probably once in a lifetime type stuff. His playmaking, hands and IQ are good enough that they can keep up with his speed, so that puts him above Matthews based on that alone (he had more assists last season than Matthews has had his entire career, lol). He's defensively responsible, it's not his fault that he plays for that tire fire of an organization and they can't surround him with proper talent.

I'll take McDavid over Matthews and Marner every single day, 365 days of the year. You put competent management in control of McDavid, and any team he is on is an instant contender overnight. Matthews and Marner are great, elite even (although I'm not totally sold on Marner yet), but like the fact that 26% of this poll is voting for them just screams homerism. If McDavid wore the blue Maple Leaf, he'd be better than Gretzky already to everyone.

Wonderful post. Excellent job summing it up succinctly.

Feels like the crux of the issue is Eastern fans, and especially a lot of Toronto fans, really don't seem to watch McDavid (or much of any Western team) outside of the highlights on SC.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

McDavid is better than both players combined

 

[KlefDown]

If McDavid is at current 12.5 and Matthews and Marner are at what they are projected to be at 11.5 and 8 respectively, then is McDavid AINEC.

My starting franchise will easily be able to find or draft a cheaper player in which the duo will be better

 

[yzerman]

I take the chance to get McDavid

 

[Skolman]

Basically it's only Leafs fans that would take Matthews & Marner, that should tell you something right there.

A lot of you guys are consistent, I'll give you that.

 

[Maplebeasts]

McDavid is better than both players combined

No he isn't.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Basically it's only Leafs fans that would take Matthews & Marner, that should tell you something right there.

A lot of you guys are consistent, I'll give you that.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Skolman]

Pot meet kettle.

Find me a poll or a statement I've made that is against the heavy majority.

Just because people criticize some Leafs fans due to how they act doesn't mean you're the victim.

 

[Skolman]

well, how are their franchises doing?

Well I mean one team has won a playoff series in recent memory.

 

[3074326]

McDavid without much hesitation.

Matthews and Marner are excellent players. McDavid is a once-in-a-decade-type player and he's only going to get better.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I’ll take McDavid and 9 million in cap space

 

[winnipegger]

Auston and Mitch

Auston and Connor aren’t as far off as people make it out to be

Yes they are. McDavid is generational. Matthews isn't generational. McDavid does things on the ice no other player can do. Matthews is good at scoring goals from in tight that's not generational that's just a good hockey player.

 

[Strait2thecup]

it's because ice time is so variable that p60 is crucial.

P60 is a horrible stat. Wasn’t AA near the top of the league as a rookie or something?

Using that over actual production is f***ing stupid

 

[zeke]

P60 is a horrible stat. Wasn’t AA near the top of the league as a rookie or something?

Using that over actual production is ****ing stupid

ok

 

[Satan]

Other: Ty Rattie

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

McDavid is a two-time 100 point player (after his third year) who already has back-to-back Art Ross’, and a Hart Trophy.

You’re going to have to include at least one 70-point player in the conversation if you want this question to be legitimate.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Well done OP, your thread backfired hilariously.