Player Discussion Start appreciating Monahan

[JPeeper]

Nhl dmen know it too. If you look at johnnys goal against Tampa, he had tons of room because a Dman and the returning forward both latched on to Monahan and thought Johnny would pass to him. Then Johnny only had to dangle one guy

Same with Gaudreau's pp goal yesterday, Backs and Monahan passed it back and forth which drew 3 of the 4 defenders onto Mony, which left Gaudreau alone with only one blocker to come late, which Gaudreau fired it through him.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I can't believe Flames fans of all people are the ones who bring up, "he's not a true #1 center, but he's alright with Gaudreau" or "Sam Bennett and Jankowski are better centers", when literally EVERY stat, Monahan is better at, except possession because he plays with a puck hog in Gaudreau (not bashing Gaudreau, it's his game and I love him for it), he recognizes what Johnny's capabilities are and lets him do his thing, it what makes him a good player. His hockey IQ is very underrated.

I think the people who consider Monahan to be a passenger on the line or worse than Bennett at centre are an extremely vocal, but small (OKG) minority. A lot of people who were critical of Monahan in previous years, myself included, have seen his improvement as a player. He's gone from a one dimensional goal scorer in his rookie season, to an excellent offensive player in the following seasons, to an excellent offensive player who is pretty solid in the neutral and defensive zones this season. He's definitely earning that contract, and I'm happy that he's grown to be quite well-balanced. I doubt he'll ever be the Selke nominee people expected of him coming out of junior, but his elite goal scoring ability more than makes up for the fact that he's just decent/good in his own end rather than great.

 

[Anglesmith]

I really don't like OKG's take on players being "better centres" based on arbitrary criteria of how a player is supposed to play each position. I understand what he's getting at, but I'm not a fan. It's the same argument that's been heard time and time again with respect to the Norris Trophy and one Erik Karlsson.

The goal of any player in the game of hockey is the same: have goals scored by your team, and not by the other team. There are several ways to skin a cat, but if at the end of the game your team ends up with more goals, you've succeeded. A 'better hockey player' is one who contributes more to this goal. Regardless of whether you're playing centre or wing, defenceman or goalie, it doesn't matter where your strengths or weaknesses lie if you contribute positively to goal differential. If Karlsson gets beat 1-on-1 a half-dozen times in a game, but creates dangerous chances individually a dozen times, he's contributing more to the overall goal than a defenceman who allows nothing but creates nothing. The Norris Trophy should go to the defenceman who best helps his team. That's it.

In the case of a centre, if you're that much more lethal in the offensive zone than other centres, you can make up for other shortcomings in your game, and still be the better centre. Saying Dillon Dube is a better centre than Sean Monahan is saying he would make the team better by directly replacing Monahan in the lineup at centre, and that is ridiculous.

 

[Tofveve]

In all honesty though, I would like to see a little more toughness, and, that there'd be a little more consistency. And that goes for Johnny too. I realize no player plays well over 82 games (Iggy could be really streaky), but I'd like to see 65-70 first rate games year after year. Months like December need to be a thing of the past that we can collectively forget happened.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

In all honesty though, I would like to see a little more toughness, and, that there'd be a little more consistency. And that goes for Johnny too. I realize no player plays well over 82 games (Iggy could be really streaky), but I'd like to see 65-70 first rate games year after year. Months like November need to be a thing of the past that we can collectively forget happened.

All I’d like more of Monahan is to be more of a net front presence and use his size more down low. People often say they don’t notice him if he’s not scoring, they would if he played with slightly more of an edge.

 

[Tofveve]

All I’d like more of Monahan is to be more of a net front presence and use his size more down low. People often say they don’t notice him if he’s not scoring, they would if he played with slightly more of an edge.

For sure. And in me mentioning Niewendyk earlier, Joe was a big body and somewhat of gentle giant (kind of like Monahan). But he was a presence in front of the net, was a master down low deflecting goals and screening.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I really don't like OKG's take on players being "better centres" based on arbitrary criteria of how a player is supposed to play each position. I understand what he's getting at, but I'm not a fan.

It's also inaccuate. It doesn't matter how Bennett plays at C stylistically, because he has been an abject disaster as a centre in the NHL. It's like the Bouma thing: People said Bouma was great and played the game the right way; and he did try really hard, was physical, etc. but he was also not good at hockey as far as the NHL is concerned. There's a tendency for folks to get caught up in people playing a certain style versus executing in an effective manner.

 

[InfinityIggy]

If Monahan could play with more of an edge to his game, I think that’d be great.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If Monahan could play with more of an edge to his game, I think that’d be great.

I feel like he did slightly more in the OHL. He got that suspension that one time though and I wonder if that made him tentative.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

My ONLY gripe with Sean is that he doesn’t physically engage himself in the game despite having a big and powerful frame. If he made himself a little more of a physical force, he would be an upper elite player.

I love Monahan and he’s the best C we’ve had in 30 years. And I love his hair long or short.

I disagree with your backpedaling on this remark. He can start to be thought of alongside Gilmour & Niewendyk.

If he doesn't pull a Chris Drury, I could see him being considered one of the best centres the Flames have had.

 

[Dertell]

What we all know is Monahan isn't respected by flames fans. That was totally a thing.

Someone here insists he's more suited for a centre role. What a tragedy.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I appreciate Monahan's goal scoring ability.

I just evaluate that independant of his center-playing ability. I cringe seeing Monahan do things expected of centers like:

- helping his D behind the net to minimize defensive zone breakdowns
- backchecking
- breaking the puck out
- defensive zone coverage
- carrying then puck in

Our win over the Hurricanes (our most recent win) made it pretty clear that Ferland and Gaudreau drive play independent of Monahan. While Monahan's goal scoring is useful, it would be more useful on another line or position. Bennett, Backlund, and Jankowski are my preferred centers. Unfortunately CFHF continues to misunderstand my position and simply gets offended at my pointing out the facts. If Monahan were the player people claim he is, this team would be 1st in the division right now. A true 1C is our biggest hole on the roster. awe have a player who can fill the role but we continue to break him with tertiary deployment. You'd have thought people would see that, not unlike all of history - with guys like Ferland, William Karlsson, B.Schenn, MSL, etc, that expaneed roles sometimes DO need to be "handed" to a player and that CAN influence a better product. That is Bennett right now.... a player playing third line minutes satisfied to dump a puck to get a convenient line change, and Monahan the opposite... a great player spoiled by one John Gaudreau who could use a change in mentality.

 

[DFF]

I appreciate Monahan's goal scoring ability.

I just evaluate that independant of his center-playing ability. I cringe seeing Monahan do things expected of centers like:

- helping his D behind the net to minimize defensive zone breakdowns
- backchecking
- breaking the puck out
- defensive zone coverage
- carrying then puck in

Our win over the Hurricanes (our most recent win) made it pretty clear that Ferland and Gaudreau drive play independent of Monahan. While Monahan's goal scoring is useful, it would be more useful on another line or position. Bennett, Backlund, and Jankowski are my preferred centers. Unfortunately CFHF continues to misunderstand my position and simply gets offended at my pointing out the facts. If Monahan were the player people claim he is, this team would be 1st in the division right now. A true 1C is our biggest hole on the roster. awe have a player who can fill the role but we continue to break him with tertiary deployment. You'd have thought people would see that, not unlike all of history - with guys like Ferland, William Karlsson, B.Schenn, MSL, etc, that expaneed roles sometimes DO need to be "handed" to a player and that CAN influence a better product. That is Bennett right now.... a player playing third line minutes satisfied to dump a puck to get a convenient line change, and Monahan the opposite... a great player spoiled by one John Gaudreau who could use a change in mentality.

I agreed with you on Monahan but I disagree that Bennett and Jank can replace him, especially Bennett. When was the last time he scored? What is his excuse now? He can be a good 3rd line energy guy in the NHL. That's it.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Monahan isn’t a winger. End of story.

 

[BigRangy]

Monahan isn’t a winger. End of story.

He's not a very good center, so what is he?

What should he be?

 

[DFF]

He's not a very good center, so what is he?

What should he be?

He is a center alright but too passive and probably cant be count on to league the team to the cup like Toews, Bergeron, Getzlaf...etc

 

[Lunatik]

Can anyone guess what makes me cringe when the topic of Monahan comes up?

 

[MonyontheMoney]

He's not a very good center, so what is he?

What should he be?

This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

There’s literally no other argument I can make against this than “watch closely” because it’s painfully obvious he is a good center.

Frankly, I question anyone’s hockey knowledge who even suggest this.

 

[Volica]

He is a center alright but too passive and probably cant be count on to league the team to the cup like Toe ws, Bergeron, Getzlaf...etc

That's my only major concern with us crowning Mony our great top line centre.
He scores a lot. And that's awesome, because we need that. But when he's not scoring he's far too much of a passenger. He's not a play driver. It's insane that when he has the puck in the offensive zone, all he does is look for Johnny to pass it to and figure it out most of the time.

I think he could be a valuable piece of a Stanley Cup winning team. I think in a perfect world, they could drop him to 2C, Backlund to 3C and have a guy to really drive play and expand our scoring. Watching Barkov and Mack this year makes me hate that 2013 draft more than I already do.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Yeah he’s +15 while playing the other teams best defencemen and Mickael Backlund line night in night out...

He looked hurt to me last night. He’s not fast but last night he was struggling to get around.

He’s not flashy, that’s why people don’t like him. But substance > flash.

 

[Anglesmith]

All he really needs to be more effective is more foot-speed. He greatly improved it coming into this season, and that's a big reason why he's having his most productive season ever. If he keeps working on it, there could be much more improvement to come. A lot of the big stars in the league (think about Tavares) needed to overcome that hurdle, and it's not an overnight fix.

 

[Lunatik]

All he really needs to be more effective is more foot-speed. He greatly improved it coming into this season, and that's a big reason why he's having his most productive season ever. If he keeps working on it, there could be much more improvement to come. A lot of the big stars in the league (think about Tavares) needed to overcome that hurdle, and it's not an overnight fix.

Great post AS

 

[Mobiandi]

All he really needs to be more effective is more foot-speed. He greatly improved it coming into this season, and that's a big reason why he's having his most productive season ever. If he keeps working on it, there could be much more improvement to come. A lot of the big stars in the league (think about Tavares) needed to overcome that hurdle, and it's not an overnight fix.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. His elite offensive awareness and positioning more than compensate for his lack of speed. It would be nice if he were faster, but like Tkachuk, it doesn't hold him back very much.

I think the biggest thing holding him back is his reluctance to carry the puck. It could be related to his skating but he doesn't look very comfortable at all with the puck on his stick for longer than a second (this is most obvious in 3-on-3 overtime). He's a triggerman in every sense of the word unless he's separated from Gaudreau.

I said it in this thread on the last page. I believe that Monahan will never take a big step in his development until he is forced to stop deferring to Gaudreau for everything. They have some nice chemistry but once Gaudreau gets shut down, the whole line stays quiet.

For the good of his development and the team, eventually they will have to be separated

 

[Anglesmith]

I'm not sure if I agree with this. His elite offensive awareness and positioning more than compensate for his lack of speed. It would be nice if he were faster, but like Tkachuk, it doesn't hold him back very much.

I think the biggest thing holding him back is his reluctance to carry the puck. It could be related to his skating but he doesn't look very comfortable at all with the puck on his stick for longer than a second (this is most obvious in 3-on-3 overtime). Maybe e's a triggerman in every sense of the word unless he's separated from Gaudreau.

I said it in this thread on the last page. I believe that Monahan will never take a big step in his development until he is forced to stop deferring to Gaudreau for everything. They have some nice chemistry but once Gaudreau gets shut down, the whole stays quiet.

For the good of his development and the team, eventually they will have to be separated

But that's the thing. He doesn't carry the puck because if he does, he quickly gets caught up to by the opposition. This is the big difference I see in Backlund's game that helps him be effective. Backlund's skating at this point in his career allows him to pick up a puck in a tight situation, take three of four quick strides and relieve the pressure instantly. Monahan only gets this if he knocks over his opponent during the puck battle. The speed you're moving at also affects how you get defended 1-on-1.

Being quicker with his feet would help Monahan with basically every facet of the game that people harp on right now. It helps him with puck-carrying, it helps him with the back-check, it helps him with supporting the play quicker and it helps him get to loose pucks on the forecheck. All these "centre-ice position" details OKG talks about all come down to skating and IQ. He has the IQ, but the skating could do with improvement. Bennett's the other way around.

 

[Mobiandi]

But that's the thing. He doesn't carry the puck because if he does, he quickly gets caught up to by the opposition. This is the big difference I see in Backlund's game that helps him be effective. Backlund's skating at this point in his career allows him to pick up a puck in a tight situation, take three of four quick strides and relieve the pressure instantly. Monahan only gets this if he knocks over his opponent during the puck battle. The speed you're moving at also affects how you get defended 1-on-1.

Being quicker with his feet would help Monahan with basically every facet of the game that people harp on right now. It helps him with puck-carrying, it helps him with the back-check, it helps him with supporting the play quicker and it helps him get to loose pucks on the forecheck. All these "centre-ice position" details OKG talks about all come down to skating and IQ. He has the IQ, but the skating could do with improvement. Bennett's the other way around.

I think that would help more if we played off the rush more frequently. But you look at slower teams like SJ and Edmonton and the big-body centers they employ like Thornton and Draisaitl. Both of them lack any significant foot speed but defenseman respect them because have ok hands and can use their size to hold onto the puck. Fhey can drive wide and gain the zone quite easily. Whereas, Monahan is bordering on stone hands and doesn't really shield the puck as well as either them which puts on all the burden of playmaking on Gaudreau.

Look no further than Tkachuk and pre-bye week Jankowski for examples of slow Flames players that can hold on to the puck and make plays happen despite their slowness.