Confirmed with Link: Stars sign Martin Hanzal (3 Years, $4.75M AAV)

Morry83

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Mar 16, 2013
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It has more to do with Nill than Dickinson IMO. A 4th line with Elie and Dickinson would be fine for this team.

I know people want to "roll 4 lines" but that's not what I want. Load up 3 big boy lines with Seguin, Hanzal, and Faksa down the middle. Give them most of the minutes and have an ELC line with the Elies and Dickinsons and Gurianovs out there for 10 minutes.

Guryanov getting 10 minutes is a waste. Better off getting top line minted in the AHL.
 

Mr Misty

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Feb 20, 2012
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Guryanov getting 10 minutes is a waste. Better off getting top line minted in the AHL.

Where he can continue to not prove to the coach that he is an NHL player? Do you remember them sending Faksa down again and again for reasons even though he was easily among the 9 best forwards on the team in 15-16? That's what happens when players get parked in the AHL. The coach is going to hem and haw and give him 10 minutes a night as a rookie no matter how many AHL points he had the previous season. Gurianov is a big man who has 2 years of playing in professional leagues under his belt. His ELC doesn't do us much good in Cedar Park. If he plays a full season of limited minutes in 17-18, he'll be given more in 18-19. If he plays a full AHL season in 17-18, he'll get limited minutes in 18-19.

The time when "Replacement RW" offers more at the NHL level than Gurianov is very nearly over, but most coaches are going to trust those players instead of him if Nill gives them the chance.
 

David Castillo

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Oct 29, 2014
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I don't get the Gurianov question marks. How often do blue chip forwards spend more than one season in the AHL? What's the risk of a young talented forward playing sheltered minutes with the potential to play up the lineup versus the reward of an experienced forward whose floor is a 4th liner, or maybe a 3rd in a pinch at best? I actually don't mind the Pitlick signing. I hated it at first. But these depth forward signings will choke on mediocrity if Hitchcock prefers their experience. Just like the Korpikoski et al. signings form last season.
 

Morry83

14-90-91
Mar 16, 2013
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Hey, I'm a Guryanov fan boy. Love the kid, and can't wait to see him full time on the Stars. I'm just worried that getting 4th line minutes with guys that aren't gonna help him produce much is a bad idea. I could be wrong for sure, but I wouldn't mind him getting one more year in the AHL, and then getting top 6 minutes on the Stars the year after.
 

Morry83

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Mar 16, 2013
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To add in thing, I do wish there was a way we could get Elie in the lineup. I was extremely impressed with him in the 18 games he played, and I think he'd be a perfect 4th line LW for us this coming season.
 

Magic Mittens

Registered User
Nov 2, 2006
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Calgary
To add in thing, I do wish there was a way we could get Elie in the lineup. I was extremely impressed with him in the 18 games he played, and I think he'd be a perfect 4th line LW for us this coming season.

I have 3 daughters, ones name is Mackenzie and another is Elodie ( Ellie for short )

So I have a soft spot for Curtis and Remi lol
 

Mr Misty

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Feb 20, 2012
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Hey, I'm a Guryanov fan boy. Love the kid, and can't wait to see him full time on the Stars. I'm just worried that getting 4th line minutes with guys that aren't gonna help him produce much is a bad idea. I could be wrong for sure, but I wouldn't mind him getting one more year in the AHL, and then getting top 6 minutes on the Stars the year after.

This is not the situation. It doesn't have to be like that. The Stars could have two of Dickinson, Elie, Shore, and Janmark on a line with him. Guys with a bit of skill and upside who could skate around the Brian Boyles and the Ryan Reaveses and the Harry Zolnierczyks.

Benn-Seguin-Spezza
Janmark-Hanzal-Ritchie
Roussel-Faksa-Pitlick?
Shore-Dickinson-Gurianov

What 4th line has a higher draft pedigree than that one? Benn, Hanzal, Faksa, Janmark Roussel kill penalties. Lots of movable pieces who can go up or down the lineup in a game. When your injury prone player of choice gets hurt, there's an NHL player ready to move up already there.
 

M88K

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May 24, 2014
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I don't get the Gurianov question marks. How often do blue chip forwards spend more than one season in the AHL? What's the risk of a young talented forward playing sheltered minutes with the potential to play up the lineup versus the reward of an experienced forward whose floor is a 4th liner, or maybe a 3rd in a pinch at best? I actually don't mind the Pitlick signing. I hated it at first. But these depth forward signings will choke on mediocrity if Hitchcock prefers their experience. Just like the Korpikoski et al. signings form last season.
Not often, but we don't have a blue chip forward so, it doesn't really fit.
Gurianov definitely needs more AHL time.
12goals at the AHL level is not "Blue chip" or even NHL ready material for a "scoring" forward, never mind the rest of his offensive production.
There's better players in the AHL that should be given spots long before him.
 

LT

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Jul 23, 2010
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Guryanov isn't a bluechip prospect. The only two we currently have are Honka and Heiskanen.

Why don't you think the questions about his game are invalid? He's a scoring winger, and since being drafted, he hasn't done much scoring. Why should be just be gifted an NHL spot in that case?
 

BigG44

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Jul 12, 2007
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I'm not going to argue semantics about what is or isn't a blue chip prospect, but are you just going to ignore he was a U20 forward in the AHL? Complaining about his production seems silly.

If you're only doing it to make a point that he may not be NHL ready, fine I get it, but let's not overreact and pretend last year was a disappointment. In terms of essentially not playing in 2015-16 because of a terrible situation in the KHL, transitioning to a foreign country, and transitioning to a smaller rink, Gurianov pretty much met expectations. He struggled early, was very good at the WJC, and then ended the season strong as one of Texas' better players.

Personally, I don't think he should start the year in the NHL on the 4th line. He's pretty much a perfect late season addition like Dallas has done in recent past with Faksa and Johns before the playoffs. Even look at Elie last year. IMO, letting those guys build confidence in the AHL unless they just blow you out of the water and then bringing them up late in the season has shown to be pretty effective.
 

LT

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Jul 23, 2010
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I'm not going to argue semantics about what is or isn't a blue chip prospect, but are you just going to ignore he was a U20 forward in the AHL? Complaining about his production seems silly.

If you're only doing it to make a point that he may not be NHL ready, fine I get it, but let's not overreact and pretend last year was a disappointment. In terms of essentially not playing in 2015-16 because of a terrible situation in the KHL, transitioning to a foreign country, and transitioning to a smaller rink, Gurianov pretty much met expectations. He struggled early, was very good at the WJC, and then ended the season strong as one of Texas' better players.

Personally, I don't think he should start the year in the NHL on the 4th line. He's pretty much a perfect late season addition like Dallas has done in recent past with Faksa and Johns before the playoffs. Even look at Elie last year. IMO, letting those guys build confidence in the AHL unless they just blow you out of the water and then bringing them up late in the season has shown to be pretty effective.

I'm not complaining about his production. I'm asking how his lack of production warrants an NHL spot. I think we're on the same page.
 

Mr Misty

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What does AHL production have to do with it? He won't be stepping into a top 6 role in Dallas without some lengthy lower line audition. Get that phase going now, build up trust with Hitch, and get some value out of his ELC. Giving those minutes to somebody who doesn't matter to the team's future success like Cracknell or McKenzie isn't a good investment.

The Shore for Nyquist thread is a decent example of a player with a million AHL points who spent multiple seasons getting no NHL opportunity once he did get called up. McKenzie and Scevior were big AHL scorers as well, it doesn't prove anything about the NHL ceiling.
 

BigG44

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Jul 12, 2007
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What does AHL production have to do with it? He won't be stepping into a top 6 role in Dallas without some lengthy lower line audition. Get that phase going now, build up trust with Hitch, and get some value out of his ELC. Giving those minutes to somebody who doesn't matter to the team's future success like Cracknell or McKenzie isn't a good investment.

The Shore for Nyquist thread is a decent example of a player with a million AHL points who spent multiple seasons getting no NHL opportunity once he did get called up. McKenzie and Scevior were big AHL scorers as well, it doesn't prove anything about the NHL ceiling.

If that's your argument, I don't even think they'll be in the Top 12. Now I'm assuming you probably are referring to Pitlick too who probably will, but again, it can't hurt to see how he does.

If Dallas was already talking about bringing Hemsky back while working on Radulov, there's a reasonable chance they add another forward. Personally, I think they could try to do that with Nemeth/Oleksiak and picks. You might as well and see what younger forward might be available who makes around $1 to $2 million ... and insurance policy for Janmark.
 

Mr Misty

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Feb 20, 2012
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If that's your argument, I don't even think they'll be in the Top 12. Now I'm assuming you probably are referring to Pitlick too who probably will, but again, it can't hurt to see how he does.

If Dallas was already talking about bringing Hemsky back while working on Radulov, there's a reasonable chance they add another forward. Personally, I think they could try to do that with Nemeth/Oleksiak and picks. You might as well and see what younger forward might be available who makes around $1 to $2 million ... and insurance policy for Janmark.

We keep signing those guys, and nobody should really be surprised when they get minutes. Last year was its own thing, it would be very hard to make the argument that it was time for Dickinson, Elie, or Gurianov right out of the gate. But these things go in cycles and the Nill default is to assume these players can't when we saw last year that at least Elie can.
 

BigG44

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Jul 12, 2007
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We keep signing those guys, and nobody should really be surprised when they get minutes. Last year was its own thing, it would be very hard to make the argument that it was time for Dickinson, Elie, or Gurianov right out of the gate. But these things go in cycles and the Nill default is to assume these players can't when we saw last year that at least Elie can.

As it sits right now, there's a spot for one of those guys so you could get what you want. I think leaving open a spot for one and letting them fight it out is perfectly fine, and to be totally honest, you have at least 2 spots open because it's not like Pitlick's spot is guaranteed. With the increase in the minimum, Pitlick can go to the NHL with his full cap hit removed. Even if it's not him, they could waive Cracknell easily for the AHL.

I'm not saying any of this is locked in stone, but I think we could all agree these guys are very likely a lock for the Top 12: Benn, Seguin, Radulov, Janmark, Hanzal, Spezza, Roussel, Faksa, Ritchie, and Shore. It should come as no shock to anyone if Pitlick, McKenzie, Cracknell or Floyd spent time as extra NHL forwards or in the AHL.

Now I understand you're saying a coach isn't going to take a chance on a rookie, especially Hitch, but I don't know that I buy that. I personally don't think GM Nill is going to let a guy with waiver eligibility play 10 minutes in the NHL, and Hitch played rookies in STL. There's absolutely 2 uncertain spots in the Top 9. I fully expect Janmark (health willing) to get one, but that might not happen. I think Ritchie or Shore probably steps up too, but there are holes if a guy has a big camp.

I'm honestly fine with the way the team is constructed this year, and as far as I can tell we just don't agree philosophically on developing guys as Top 6 AHLers or 4th line forwards in the NHL. I don't think you're wrong that it could be effective, but I don't think that means it's the only correct way.
 

David Castillo

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Oct 29, 2014
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San Antonio, TX
Guryanov isn't a bluechip prospect. The only two we currently have are Honka and Heiskanen.

Why don't you think the questions about his game are invalid? He's a scoring winger, and since being drafted, he hasn't done much scoring. Why should be just be gifted an NHL spot in that case?

He was picked higher than Honka. Of course he's blue chip.

These questions about his scoring completely ignore the context of his playing time. In the KHL, it was a straight disaster by all accounts. His coach, his team, etc. Once he got to the A, he was buried on the 4th line for the majority of the season. And he still ended up top 10 in Texas scoring.

Somebody on Twitter said it best: the toughest minutes for a player are the minutes they play with **** linemates.

I don't think Gurianov is some 30 goal scoring stud or anything. But he's clearly a player that lines benefit from. He has an incredible first step, slick moves (double toe drag FTW), and an overrated but quality shot (his shots don't seem to have much velocity even though they're accurate). Plus he punched a Nazi.
 

Magic Mittens

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Nov 2, 2006
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Calgary
What does all this have to do with Hanzal lol

Also to add onto Gury, he's great at causing the other team to turn the puck over
 

David Castillo

Registered User
Oct 29, 2014
832
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San Antonio, TX
My bad. To me, Gurianov's scoring troubles are obvious: he never had real opportunities so his numbers are somewhat muted. But look what happened during the World Junior Championship in December when he DID have a real opportunity; dude exploded, and was probably Russia's best player. AND he produced: PPG in 7 games, and in 2015 at the U18 he had something like 6 goals in 5 games.

Oh yea, Hanzal. Anyway else feel like Nill is setting himself up to trade Spezza next season? If Spezza plays wing, I'd rather just have Rick Nash, who would looked great on Hanzal or Faksa's wing. Just saying.
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
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My bad. To me, Gurianov's scoring troubles are obvious: he never had real opportunities so his numbers are somewhat muted. But look what happened during the World Junior Championship in December when he DID have a real opportunity; dude exploded, and was probably Russia's best player. AND he produced: PPG in 7 games, and in 2015 at the U18 he had something like 6 goals in 5 games.

Oh yea, Hanzal. Anyway else feel like Nill is setting himself up to trade Spezza next season? If Spezza plays wing, I'd rather just have Rick Nash, who would looked great on Hanzal or Faksa's wing. Just saying.

Too bad Nash is only signed for one more year. If he also had two years remaining, it would be a pretty no brainer swap. I think it still could be if NY was willing to take on the extra year and not require Dallas to retain.

He seems like he could be a good 2 or 3 year signing next summer too ... at least something to watch.
 

LordHelmet

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May 19, 2004
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Twin Cities
That's not going to happen. You can have guys rotating responsibilities based on the zone. Either one plays wing or they play on different lines.

I honestly can't think of an example of that ever happening ... rotating centers based on the zone.

It's being reported that this is exactly what we might see the Stars trying in camp. Once possession is established in the offensive zone, the difference between W's and C is negligible. You cycle the puck, get it to the front of the net, and try to score. C's go deep in the corners & W's switch sides all the time. I've never seen a LW just give up on a puck because it crosses over to the right side of the rink and vice-versa. Seguin is a C, and yet one of his best abilities is setting up for a one-timer on the left faceoff dot, similar to where Oveckhin.

So theoretically, Spezza could play W in the Defensive zone covering the points and then play his normal style - nominally as a C - in the offensive zone.

Hanzal could do the opposite, taking on the additional responsibility of C in the defensive zone, and playing like a W in front of the net & in the corners in the offensive zone - nominally as a W.

We're already using Seguin and Benn - both with plenty of experience as C's - on a line together and it works pretty good I think. I don't think that they switch responsibilities between zones as described above, but the point remains that having 2 C's on a line isn't automatically a problem.
 

93Crazed101

Registered User
Apr 27, 2017
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Greater Dallas
I guess we'll see. It'll be interesting.

Hitchcock said coaches use two centers all of the time, and said he did that in St. Louis, with an offensive-minded player using center ice more in the offensive zone and a defensive-minded player taking the center assignment in the defensive zone. It's a tricky way of playing, but Hitchcock said there are several ways to work with two centers.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-stars/stars/2017/07/04/stars-lines-going-look-like-ken-hitchcocks-sure-yet-excited

Seems to me he has the same idea.
 

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