Movies: Star Wars VIII The Last Jedi, for those who have seen it! (SPOILERS)

[Tawnos]

Can we not just agree that TLJ was a steaming pile of dung and move on? Arguably the worst of all SW movies, including the horrible, horrible prequels. After a solid TFW and, arguably, the best SW movie in Rogue One, this was ... putrid.

We can’t agree, because we don’t agree. People have different opinions. Shock.

 

[NyQuil]

Can we not just agree that TLJ was a steaming pile of dung and move on? Arguably the worst of all SW movies, including the horrible, horrible prequels. After a solid TFW and, arguably, the best SW movie in Rogue One, this was ... putrid.

I agree with this.

 

[Osprey]

So apart from ham-fisting in continuity to the OT there's no way the Falcon should just be left sitting in some junk yard without an owner.

It also had fuel, was "unlocked" and had no other way (like control locks) to prevent it from being stolen. Even if you want to suggest that no one would bother stealing an old ship like that, it would've been a prime target for scavengers. Besides the fact that it was still in flyable condition, it's a miracle that nothing was missing inside.

They missed an opportunity to show her working on the Falcon and generally learning to love it and its secrets. Literally a 30 second scene where she asks to work on it or offers to work on it for free instead of for rations. The stupid as **** "the garbage will do" head fake only works once. Weaving the Falcon into Rey's story would have made her taking over command of it with Chewy way more poignant.

I agree. There was an opportunity to establish her as a part-time mechanic on the various ships in the yard. That would've tied in with her scavenging, since the best scavengers know the use and value of the parts that they find. It would've explained how she had access to the Falcon (ex. maybe she knew the code to lower the loading ramp). It could've explained why the Falcon was so immaculate inside (ex. either she kept it clean or the owner who tasked her with repairing it also tasked others to clean it up every so often).

It would've also explained that scene in which she repairs the Falcon down in that circular cut-out and asks Finn for a tool, as well as the scene in which she makes a "repair" that surprises even Han. They could've even thrown in a brief exchange where Finn or Han says, "You seem to know this ship pretty well," with Rey giving an answer like "I've always been drawn to it," perhaps as an early clue of her Force sensitivity or just with further explanation that it's because of its character or the fact that it felt like hers because no one else paid attention to it. That would've made it a little more believable and poignant, as you suggested, when Han offers to take her on and when she inherits the ship in the end.

All of that would've tied everything together better, explained her skills (in a realistic manner, not just "because the Force") and made her a little bit more interesting of a character. They wasted that opportunity in order to have the Falcon surprise and make a couple of "garbage" jokes, instead. This has been a problem with blockbusters of the last 20 years or so, IMO. They've become too much about entertaining through moments that get the biggest reactions out of audiences (jokes, gags, surprises, etc.) and less about entertaining through good storytelling.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

So I just saw this over the weekend.

Wow. It was a tough watch. I was not entertained at all. And I'm pretty easily amused by most movies.

 

[johnjm22]

So I just saw this over the weekend.

Wow. It was a tough watch. I was not entertained at all. And I'm pretty easily amused by most movies.

That's the thing. There's all these different complaints and critiques about the movie, but the biggest problem is that it's just boring. It's also too long. Very tough to sit through.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Now you are telling people how they should feel? Wow.

I'm saying if you get actually pissed about a movie being bad then you need to take a look at yourself and wonder why you are letting something so trivial get you so worked up.

This whole "if I don't like a movie I have to RAAAAGE" culture is so toxic.

 

[RandV]

Luke actually sucks in ANH and nearly dies a half dozen times. He's the least competent between himself, Han, Ben, and Leia. Rey, at this point, absolutely is a mary sue. There's no justification for what she can do other than "she just can." It's incredibly boring. You don't need to suspend your belief for Luke - he's a dumbass farm hand that has no idea what life is like outside of his little bubble. Rey doesn't work because she's not a well realized character, the same as Finn. The TLJ was supposed to address all of this but only made it worse.



They missed an opportunity to show her working on the Falcon and generally learning to love it and its secrets. Literally a 30 second scene where she asks to work on it or offers to work on it for free instead of for rations. The stupid as **** "the garbage will do" head fake only works once. Weaving the Falcon into Rey's story would have made her taking over command of it with Chewy way more poignant.

In regards to the Mary Sue angle I feel like Rey could have been salvaged until Rian Johnson decided for convenience sake that you could become a Jedi Knight level force adept in a days training.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

"Jedi Knight force adept."

What is that and what way are you measuring it?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

That's the thing. There's all these different complaints and critiques about the movie, but the biggest problem is that it's just boring. It's also too long. Very tough to sit through.

It definitely was more on the "interesting" side than "fun".

This is why I like it a lot.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

That's the thing. There's all these different complaints and critiques about the movie, but the biggest problem is that it's just boring. It's also too long. Very tough to sit through.

Yeah they certainly could have truncated some scenes to help with the flow.

But it wasn't only that. There was SO much that was just .. off.. about it.

- the comedy? Ease. SW has always towed that line between serious and adding some comedy. But this was insane. The movie opens with .. a prank call? What the serious f***?

- the story for TfA was "gotta find Luke." Big end scene, Rey holds out the lightsaber and you see Skywalker. This movie? First scene with Luke? He throws the saber over his shoulder like its a bic mac wrapper? Shut up. That scene could have ended the same way but been done a million times better

It was just so poorly done. Visually, as usual, it was stunning. But everything else was just so .. meh.

 

[Tawnos]

It definitely was more on the "interesting" side than "fun".

This is why I like it a lot.

I can agree with that. Theres a whole lot more philosophizing in this one than any other Star Wars movie. The PT tried at times, but it wasnt the central underpinning for the movies.

There is no denying the movie is different.

 

[Rick Middleton]

We can’t agree, because we don’t agree. People have different opinions. Shock.

TLJ is the 8th movie of a 9 movie nonology. The previous 7 had a somewhat coherent storyline. The micro was about the Skywalker bloodlines and how it influenced the macro political scene. Zoom out to the 10,000 foot level and it's good (jedi) versus evil (sith). Zoom in moreso and there are political undertones, conflict of what constitutes good vs evil, and so forth. TFA introduced a new dynamic that somewhat deviated from the established storyline. However, it was nebulous enough that it could have been brought back into the main storyline. TLJ took that right off the tracks.

• Rey? Parented by nobodies. Uber-jedi with nil training. As pointed out ad-nauseam above, the ultimate Mary Sue.
• Snoke? Ultimate bad guy, force powers unforeseen until now. Able to manipulate the thoughts of Force-sensitive people. Pulled together the First Order. Destroyed the Republic. And .... killed off in the second movie by a ridiculous concept.
• Luke? From hero to zero in one film.

If it were a stand-alone film it wouldn't be bad. But as a component to a previously-established series, it's garbage. The question that many have is "Where does the 9th movie go from here?". And for some, the answer is "I don't really care".

If you liked it that's fine. But it's a difficult argument to make as to why it would be a good SW movie given all of its faults.

 

[Tawnos]

TLJ is the 8th movie of a 9 movie nonology. The previous 7 had a somewhat coherent storyline. The micro was about the Skywalker bloodlines and how it influenced the macro political scene. Zoom out to the 10,000 foot level and it's good (jedi) versus evil (sith). Zoom in moreso and there are political undertones, conflict of what constitutes good vs evil, and so forth. TFA introduced a new dynamic that somewhat deviated from the established storyline. However, it was nebulous enough that it could have been brought back into the main storyline. TLJ took that right off the tracks.

• Rey? Parented by nobodies. Uber-jedi with nil training. As pointed out ad-nauseam above, the ultimate Mary Sue.
• Snoke? Ultimate bad guy, force powers unforeseen until now. Able to manipulate the thoughts of Force-sensitive people. Pulled together the First Order. Destroyed the Republic. And .... killed off in the second movie by a ridiculous concept.
• Luke? From hero to zero in one film.

If it were a stand-alone film it wouldn't be bad. But as a component to a previously-established series, it's garbage. The question that many have is "Where does the 9th movie go from here?". And for some, the answer is "I don't really care".

If you liked it that's fine. But it's a difficult argument to make as to why it would be a good SW movie given all of its faults.

You’re basically saying it’s bad because it’s different, which is less a complaint about the quality of the movie and more a complaint about how the movie stacks up against your own preconceptions. And this is the hallmark of where I disagree with people about this movie. The Snoke thing and the Luke thing are entirely reactions to the way you, and many others, had built those characters up in their heads and all it really represents is an unwillingness to revise the knowledge people believed they possessed, but turned out to be incorrect.

I don’t believe in subversion for subversion’s sake, but I also don’t believe a movie’s subversive nature is enough to discredit it.

 

[NyQuil]

The Snoke thing and the Luke thing are entirely reactions to the way you, and many others, had built those characters up in their heads and all it really represents is an unwillingness to revise the knowledge people believed they possessed, but turned out to be incorrect.

It would have been nice to have SOME knowledge about who the hell Snoke was.

 

[Tawnos]

It would have been nice to have SOME knowledge about who the hell Snoke was.

We may yet find out. It also leaves it open for the growing canon EU to address. As well as the Resistance tv show that’s coming and is set in that time period.

 

[I am not exposed]

It was bad. Really bad. I really didn't like the Force Awakens. But this was even worse.

Rogue One easily the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy.

edit. Haven't seen Solo yet. But it can't be worse than the Last Jedi and the Force Awakens.

 

[johnjm22]

I spent zero time theorizing about Snoke before seeing TLJ. Watching him get killed wasn't a good twist. It wasn't compelling. It was just a character that I don't care about dying in an unsuspenseful poorly written manner.

The callbacks/references that took place in that scene were particularly annoying. This is a film telling you to let the past die while simultaneously recalling that past and cheaply exploiting it.

 

[Rick Middleton]

You’re basically saying it’s bad because it’s different, which is less a complaint about the quality of the movie and more a complaint about how the movie stacks up against your own preconceptions. And this is the hallmark of where I disagree with people about this movie. The Snoke thing and the Luke thing are entirely reactions to the way you, and many others, had built those characters up in their heads and all it really represents is an unwillingness to revise the knowledge people believed they possessed, but turned out to be incorrect.

I don’t believe in subversion for subversion’s sake, but I also don’t believe a movie’s subversive nature is enough to discredit it.

No, I'm saying it's bad because it breaks the continuity (tenuous as it may be in some people's opinions) of the nonology. It would be akin to building a 9 story building out of brick for the first 7 stories and then having siding and a completely different architecture on the 8th story. Sure, you might like siding and that specific architecture, but within the context of the other 7 stories it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Tawnos]

No, I'm saying it's bad because it breaks the continuity (tenuous as it may be in some people's opinions) of the nonology. It would be akin to building a 9 story building out of brick for the first 7 stories and then having siding and a completely different architecture on the 8th story. Sure, you might like siding and that specific architecture, but within the context of the other 7 stories it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I think of it more like when bands get later in their catalog and try to incorporate different styles into their music. Of course, sometimes that turns out awful and sometimes it turns out great. There’s nothing inherently bad about it.

 

[Rick Middleton]

I think of it more like when bands get later in their catalog and try to incorporate different styles into their music. Of course, sometimes that turns out awful and sometimes it turns out great. There’s nothing inherently bad about it.

How can you say in one sentence that it turns out awful and then in the next sentence say that nothing is inherently bad about it?

 

[Tawnos]

How can you say in one sentence that it turns out awful and then in the next sentence say that nothing is inherently bad about it?

Read it again. That’s not what I said.

 

[Rick Middleton]

It would have been nice to have SOME knowledge about who the hell Snoke was.

A mysterious, all powerful Sith lord that ... got punked by his apprentice in the lamest way possible.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You’re basically saying it’s bad because it’s different, which is less a complaint about the quality of the movie and more a complaint about how the movie stacks up against your own preconceptions. And this is the hallmark of where I disagree with people about this movie. The Snoke thing and the Luke thing are entirely reactions to the way you, and many others, had built those characters up in their heads and all it really represents is an unwillingness to revise the knowledge people believed they possessed, but turned out to be incorrect.

I don’t believe in subversion for subversion’s sake, but I also don’t believe a movie’s subversive nature is enough to discredit it.

No, he's saying it's bad because it's incongruous with the rest of the seven-movie series.

If in the final LOTR movie Frodo and Sam built giant Pacific Rim-esque robots to fight the hordes of Mordor on their way to Mount Doom, would you be defending that too as "subverting your expectations"?

 

[Tawnos]

No, he's saying it's bad because it's incongruous with the rest of the seven-movie series.

If in the final LOTR movie Frodo and Sam built giant Pacific Rim-esque robots to fight the hordes of Mordor on their way to Mount Doom, would you be defending that too as "subverting your expectations"?

This movie is still clearly within the Star Wars galaxy, so I have no idea how your analogy applies.

 

[Tawnos]

A mysterious, all powerful Sith lord that ... got punked by his apprentice in the lamest way possible.

Guess he wasn’t all-powerful then.