Movies: Star Wars: Rogue One Part II Release date Dec 14th

[RandV]

That's what I was thinking unless they got away for a while and assumed another Star Destroyer picked them up. Anyways, I don't think she should have been at the battle, all signs in ANH point to her just receiving the plans. Again I would have had the plans transmitting to her a bit away from the battle, she gets going - light speed fails or something and boom a ANH. It bothers me that nobody producing the movie thinks about the beginning of ANH here.

So the other option is a bit of time passed and they caught up with her. She didn't know Vader had slaughtered a bunch of people which is strange because they were running the Death Star plans relay to get them to her.

Another Star Destroyer that Darth Vader just happened to be on as well?

But yes while they did a good job of closing the 'critical design flaw' loophole they did a poor job in the transition period, as Leia's "diplomatic" vessel was literally at the scene of a major battle and the universe doesn't have the technology to track your destination once you hit light speed.

Though of course the original movie kind of messes this up too, as if she had these critical Death Star plans on board why didn't she deliver them straight to Yavin, and then go find Obi Wan.

 

[Tawnos]

Another Star Destroyer that Darth Vader just happened to be on as well?

But yes while they did a good job of closing the 'critical design flaw' loophole they did a poor job in the transition period, as Leia's "diplomatic" vessel was literally at the scene of a major battle and the universe doesn't have the technology to track your destination once you hit light speed.

Though of course the original movie kind of messes this up too, as if she had these critical Death Star plans on board why didn't she deliver them straight to Yavin, and then go find Obi Wan.

We don't know precisiely what happens between the exact end of Rogue One and the exact beginning of A New Hope. Rogue One ends. Vader broadcasts to all ships in the Outer Rim the description of Tantive IV. Imperial ship stationed at Tatooine sees Tantive IV, calls it in to Vader. Vader shows up and A New Hope begins. This site http://www.swgalaxymap.com/ puts Scarif as basically a neighbor to Tatooine. I don't have a problem with this line of logic, but it would've been better if we didn't have to think about it.

Scarif's proximity to Tatooine could provide some explanation for why Leia was there. They needed a reason for her to be near Tatooine, since finding Obi Wan would've been a covert mission.

By the way, the whole "diplomatic mission to Alderaan" was always a bad cover line. If they're on their way to Alderaan, why the hell were they doing at Tatooine? Alderaan is an Inner Core system...

 

[RandV]

I'm just curious, I've read here and in reviews that it's a stand alone film, but specifically I'm wondering if the film works literally by itself. So say you've never seen a single Star Wars film before and don't know about anything Star Wars. Could you see this film and still "understand it" if you will?

The Red Letter Media review discusses this a bit, and it's part of the criticism. If you had no familiarity with the Star Wars universe then you'd probably be confused what "the force" is because they talk about it but give it no explanation. Darth Vader's appearance would also seem pretty damn random, like who the hell is this guy all of a sudden and how is he just murdering a bunch of people with psychic powers and a laser sword?

I'd imagine the ending would be pretty unsatisfying as well, for a standalone movie as well you'd probably want to see it end with the plans actually being put to use. 'We got the plans to destroy the big doomsday machine, and now everyone's dead and one ship of people we don't know escapes with said plans' isn't really a good ending without any context.

I'm not really criticizing here, as the context is that this is a prequel to a near universally known film. But just pointing out that as a stand alone with no context there would be some pretty big flaws. A lot could be eliminated if you watched episode IV immediately after, but then you have a completely different presentation level (intro, music, etc) and tone.

 

[The Drop]

So you didn't like the movie where you pretty much knew what was going to happen the 1st time, so the 2nd time where you knew everything you still didn't like it.

I'm shocked!

Well my brother asked me to go with him so I obliged.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Was the vent really a flaw that needed a specific explanation?

It's a big space station with vents. The Empire in building the station missed something that was a major issue, and the Rebels exploited it. Is an oversight for a gigantic project like this really that hard to believe?

 

[Tawnos]

Was the vent really a flaw that needed a specific explanation?

It's a big space station with vents. The Empire in building the station missed something that was a major issue, and the Rebels exploited it. Is an oversight for a gigantic project like this really that hard to believe?

It's been the most consistently criticized plot point in ANH basically for decades.

Besides, it's not the vent that is at issue. Why should hitting an exhaust port start a chain reaction?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It's been the most consistently criticized plot point in ANH basically for decades.

Because there isn't anything else to really harp on with regards to the plot. ANH is lauded as a great movie that still holds up today, without this standalone/not standalone film to explain something that didn't really need explaining.

Besides, it's not the vent that is at issue. Why should hitting an exhaust port start a chain reaction?

I don't know, how do lightsabers work?

 

[Tawnos]

Because there isn't anything else to really harp on with regards to the plot. ANH is lauded as a great movie that still holds up today, without this standalone/not standalone film to explain something that didn't really need explaining.



I don't know, how do lightSabres work?

It didn't need explaining, but if you're going to tell the story of how they stole the Death Star plans, you get the opportunity to do so... so why not?

And the lightsaber thing is a totally different thing. One is mysterious. The other... I mean, c'mon. Lighting a match next to a car's exhaust port won't make a car blow up. The idea goes against our existing understanding of machinery, even if that understanding isn't explicit.

 

[Hivemind]

I'm unsure if that light saber question was ironic or not, given that Rogue One's emphasis on Kyber Crystals.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

My issue is the idea this movie gets points for explaining the Death Star vent thing when it really was an inconsequential detail in ANH.

Also a Death Star is not a car. An ion blaster projectile is not a match.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I mean, I never have it much thought as to how illogical the kill shot was. It was just something the film asked you to accept so as to have a thrilling space battle. If that is too implausible for you, so be it I guess.

Not that it's bad that R1 answered that question in a definitive way (And got some great dramatic irony out of it to boot, literal laser guided karma). I just think it's important with stories to just accept the rules the story lays out- it's only a problem if a story is inconsistent, or worse, breaks it's own rules.

I've seen people bash Blade Runner because humans wouldn't build androids to serve as a slave class...which is a completely asinine criticism to me (And I didnt think Blade Runner was the masterpiece it's made out to be either). It's the same thing, if there weren't androids or a kill shot, there'd be no film or thrilling sequence to cap the film.

Besides all that, I suppose you could have gone Star trek and thrown in bs techno-babble as to why this needs to happen. Which R1 did do with it's plot points towards the end, btw. Would that have made ANH better? Did it improve R1? Not necessarily imo.

 

[Tawnos]

My issue is the idea this movie gets points for explaining the Death Star vent thing when it really was an inconsequential detail in ANH.

Also a Death Star is not a car. An ion blaster projectile is not a match.

Relatively speaking, they should be the same thing.

On a certain level, I agree with you and Finlandia here. It didn't need to be explained. However, I really enjoy the fact that they did... because it really is a flip of the bird to all the people who over-analyze these things. At least it is in my mind.

All this stuff about having to figure out and explain how Vader got to Leia so quickly... I mean, who really cares? These things are just the result of the hyper-critical society we live in combined with the over-scrutinization Star Wars receives in general.

 

[Blender]

I didn't think the exhaust was ignited, just that it was a straight exhaust pipe that connected right to the core of whatever engine the thing runs on. That's why only a perfect shot would do it.

Isn't that how the graphics they show before the run work?

 

[Tawnos]

I didn't think the exhaust was ignited, just that it was a straight exhaust pipe that connected right to the core of whatever engine the thing runs on. That's why only a perfect shot would do it.

Isn't that how the graphics they show before the run work?

Not exactly. The direct hit causes a chain reaction. It's not like the torpedoes were going to go all the way down the pipe.

The point I was making wasn't that they ignited the exhaust. I was just giving a modern-day example of a real world place that chain reactions don't happen.

 

[Blender]

Not exactly. The direct hit causes a chain reaction. It's not like the torpedoes were going to go all the way down the pipe.

The point I was making wasn't that they ignited the exhaust. I was just giving a modern-day example of a real world place that chain reactions don't happen.

You sure? I can't look it up this minute, but I thought the demo they show during the briefing scene is literally the torpedoes going down the exhaust.

The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system.

 

[Tawnos]

You sure? I can't look it up this minute, but I thought the demo they show during the briefing scene is literally the torpedoes going down the exhaust.

I just double checked. The graphic isn't clear, but the guy explaining the plan specifically says it will set up a chain reaction.

Literally the sentence after what you posted says "A precise hit will start a chain reaction, which should destroy the station."

 

[Blender]

I just double checked. The graphic isn't clear, but the guy explaining the plan specifically says it will set up a chain reaction.

In the reactor. I posted part of the quote above. My understanding was always that the torpedoes were going down the vent, then starting a chain reaction in the reactor.

That's why they needed a precise hit. A glancing blow wasn't going to set off anything.

 

[Tawnos]

In the reactor. I posted part of the quote above. My understanding was always that the torpedoes were going down the vent, then starting a chain reaction in the reactor.

I see where you're coming from. It isn't clear, but I was never under the impression that the torpedoes were traveling all the way down the shaft.

 

[Blender]

I see where you're coming from. It isn't clear, but I was never under the impression that the torpedoes were traveling all the way down the shaft.

I edited my post for the precise hit part. If the chain reaction started in the shaft they wouldn't need a precise hit. Any hit to the inside would do. Luke has to get the torpedoes straight down the middle for it to work, and it takes long enough to go off for him to escape.

 

[Tawnos]

I edited my post for the precise hit part. If the chain reaction started in the shaft they wouldn't need a precise hit. Any hit to the inside would do. Luke has to get the torpedoes straight down the middle for it to work, and it takes long enough to go off for him to escape.

It takes a precise hit of the port, not of the reactor. Why else would Luke make his comment about hitting womp rats? He's not trying to hit womp rats at the end of a narrow shaft.

 

[Blender]

It takes a precise hit of the port, not of the reactor. Why else would Luke make his comment about hitting womp rats? He's not trying to hit womp rats at the end of a narrow shaft.

What? A precise hit is a precise hit. He needs to get the torpedoes dead center on a small target, which is where his womp rat comment comes in.

I never considered this a plot hole that required a convoluted explanation to resolve. Obviously someone did so they made this port an intentional flaw instead of an oversight due to overconfidence. It's supposed to have shields to protect against blaster fire, but they never imagined a small fighter would get in there and use torpedoes, so they didn't put a grate on it. Was always believable to me.

 

[Tawnos]

What? A precise hit is a precise hit. He needs to get the torpedoes dead center on a small target, which is where his womb rat comment comes in.

I never considered this a plot hole that required a convoluted explanation to resolve. Obviously someone did so they made this port an intentional flaw instead of an oversight due to overconfidence. It's supposed to have shields to protect against blaster fire, but they never imagined a small fighter would get in there and use torpedoes, so they didn't put a grate on it. Was always believable to me.

It was to me too.

But precision is relative. I mean, I work in mapping. A precision of 1:10,000 is pretty good, but it's not as good as a precision of 1:15,000. The idea that someone could hit the entrance with a torpedo so precisely as to travel straight down a moon-radius-length shaft about the same width as said torpedo, without hitting any walls, goes beyond what should be possible, even with the Force guiding Luke. Han's hyperbole of it being "one-in-a-million" wouldn't even come close to covering the precision needed there.

On top of all of that, Red Leader's shot didn't work because he completely missed the target. "It just impacted on the surface."

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The wording acts as if hitting the port itself begins a chain reaction, though the graphic indicates the torpedo starts the chain reaction when making contact with the reactor.

 

[chicagoskycam]

It's cool they gave it a back story to why there was a weakness but if the Empire killed your wife in front of you, daughter is missing, I think sabotage is an order before it can kill billions of people.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

It's cool they gave it a back story to why there was a weakness but if the Empire killed your wife in front of you, daughter is missing, I think sabotage is an order before it can kill billions of people.

Well, you gotta start somewhere.