Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Spring in Fialta]

Pretty tough spot. I think it's admirable that they kept/are keeping her character alive in the movies. There's no real good way to do it, so we'll see how it turns out.

So don't do it. Serve your movie.

 

[Blender]

If it makes sense in the story, I think it can be done well. If it feels shoehorned in though it could be a problem.

The only way it will make sense is if they write parts of the story around those scenes, which means they shouldn't do it because it's always bad when that's done.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

People bitched about TFA because it was too similar to ANH

People bitched about TLJ because it was too much of a departure from traditional Star Wars

Both are perfectly good entertaining blockbusters with so heart like the old one were. They have flaws, just like the old movies had. The major difference? People expect these movies to be masterpieces. They are a vehicule to sell merch. They are marketed as such. Of course they are going to be cliché and somewhat ridiculous... the old ones were.

I expect people to bitch about IX for some stupid reason. The SW crowd is mostly unbearable and full of itself. Enjoy it or do not, there is no try.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Meh I enjoyed TFA and didnt like TLJ at all really. I mean I'm not a die hard star wars fan by any means but a lot of the things they tried either just straight up didnt work or didnt make any sense to attempt. I dont know about all this online outrage about it or anything like that but so far it seems like the biggest mistake they made was not seeming to have any kind of plan or atleast sticking to it if they did have one. Because TLJ seemed rather directionless.

 

[johnjm22]

People *****ed about TFA because it was too similar to ANH

People *****ed about TLJ because it was too much of a departure from traditional Star Wars

Both are perfectly good entertaining blockbusters with so heart like the old one were. They have flaws, just like the old movies had. The major difference? People expect these movies to be masterpieces. They are a vehicule to sell merch. They are marketed as such. Of course they are going to be cliché and somewhat ridiculous... the old ones were.

I expect people to ***** about IX for some stupid reason. The SW crowd is mostly unbearable and full of itself. Enjoy it or do not, there is no try.

Fans critiqued TFA but mostly enjoyed the film. About half the people who saw TLJ flat out dislike it.

There are many valid criticisms of TLJ that have little to do with a "departure from traditional Star Wars."

 

[Blender]

I don't see how TLJ was in any way a departure from traditional Star Wars, it checked all the boxes for what Star Wars is. The problem with the movie is it felt like a series of B plots with little direction and it felt disconnected from TFA. It had fundamental flaws with the plots themselves as well of course.

I think people are in denial at how shallow this franchise really is. It's not deep or expansive and never has been. People demand they check off all of these boxes that Star Wars must have, and when they stray from it at all like with Solo for example, no one goes to see it.

 

[Pilky01]

I got excited for The Last Jedi and felt super burned by the lack of story pay off. I have a hard time imagining how they bring me back in for episode 9.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I liked TFA and the TLJ. I didn't like Rogue One (thought it was competent but meh), and I did like Solo (at least more than I expected to).

I am looking forward to Episode 9 because it is Star Wars and I like Star Wars. Even after seeing AOTC in theaters I was right up there with everyone looking forward to see the next one.

 

[Epsilon]

Fans critiqued TFA but mostly enjoyed the film. About half the people who saw TLJ flat out dislike it.

There are many valid criticisms of TLJ that have little to do with a "departure from traditional Star Wars."

That's not even remotely true. It has an A CinemaScore. It also got a 2.82 multiplier off a massive opening weekend.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

People *****ed about TFA because it was too similar to ANH

People *****ed about TLJ because it was too much of a departure from traditional Star Wars

Both are perfectly good entertaining blockbusters with so heart like the old one were. They have flaws, just like the old movies had. The major difference? People expect these movies to be masterpieces. They are a vehicule to sell merch. They are marketed as such. Of course they are going to be cliché and somewhat ridiculous... the old ones were.

I expect people to ***** about IX for some stupid reason. The SW crowd is mostly unbearable and full of itself. Enjoy it or do not, there is no try.

Most people liked TFA. Sure the criticism that it was a carbon copy of ANH was raised but, while completely true and valid, very few people used that as a reason to hate the movie. Box Office, repeat viewers, youtube channels, rotten tomatoes audience scores... all of it is positive, despite this flaw. Which completely flies in the face of your argument that the star wars crowd can't accept a star wars movie that isn't a masterpiece. Besides, that's a rather silly argument. We all know none of these movies were masterpieces. No one is asking for a masterpiece. It's as if you argued that someone being upset at being served a literal turd on a plate (TLJ) in their favourite fast food restaurant (Star wars franchise) is being picky and will only eat caviar with champagne (will only accept masterpieces). We're not asking for caviar and champagne every meal, we just don't want to be served actual feces in our plates. The one movie who is getting that type of hate is TLJ. It's not getting hate because its status as a masterpiece (or not), it's getting hate because it's a terrible movie several notches below the masterpiece category.

Rogue One and Solo weren't masterpieces either, but both movies were decent enough and were liked by the fanbase overall.

Honestly, if I'm RJ and KK, I hope the entire world is made of people like you who conflate issues and have zero expectations. You're the ideal public since you have basically zero standard of quality or expectations beyond the most basic popcorn flick which is 100% fine if that's the case. We all take different things away from our experiences watching movies. Some people just want to turn their brain off for 2 hours, see pretty distracting lights with a somewhat cohesive story for some escapism. I actually often want that after a long week at work. But for star wars I have slightly higher expectations, not masterpiece expectations, but certainly TFA/Solo/RO/RotJ type expectations. I don't speak for everyone, but I'd say this view represents the view of most people who hated TLJ and almost no one is represented by your take on the situation.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

That's not even remotely true. It has an A CinemaScore. It also got a 2.82 multiplier off a massive opening weekend.

Rotten Tomatoes score is 46% for the audience, and it is known that RT disregards all the 1/5 stars. RT has investigated the low scores and it's not alt right, or obscure groups of people spam down rating the movie either. So it's certainly fair to say that half of the viewers didn't like it.

 

[S E P H]

Fans critiqued TFA but mostly enjoyed the film. About half the people who saw TLJ flat out dislike it.

There are many valid criticisms of TLJ that have little to do with a "departure from traditional Star Wars."

The Last Jedi felt like I was watching an activist march or something. So many useless characters, so many plot-holes, so many deus ex machina scenes, so many different directions this movie went, so many questions like how the hell are the rebels still running away after blowing up the death planet, and so many other travesties. I tried watching it again and simply had to fast forward every scene that didn't have Rey/Skywalker in the first half of the movie because it is simply a waste of time (and this has nothing to do with reminiscing over old characters such as Luke).

 

[Epsilon]

Rotten Tomatoes score is 46% for the audience, and it is known that RT disregards all the 1/5 stars. RT has investigated the low scores and it's not alt right, or obscure groups of people spam down rating the movie either. So it's certainly fair to say that half of the viewers didn't like it.

That's garbage self-selected unscientific data, and it can't even purport to have the correct sampling frame since there's absolutely no way to determine whether or not someone rating the film actually saw it. If you think that's at all a valid analysis you should probably go to school and take a statistics class.

CinemaScore uses scientific sampling methods to get representative samples of people who are actually guaranteed to have seen the film.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The Last Jedi felt like I was watching an activist march or something.

Whaat?

 

[S E P H]

Whaat?

Chicks in purple hair, guys acting on their "feelings", saving CGI animals, and an underlying message of "doing the right thing". It had everything except p***y hats.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Most people liked TFA. Sure the criticism that it was a carbon copy of ANH was raised but, while completely true and valid, very few people used that as a reason to hate the movie. Box Office, repeat viewers, youtube channels, rotten tomatoes audience scores... all of it is positive, despite this flaw. Which completely flies in the face of your argument that the star wars crowd can't accept a star wars movie that isn't a masterpiece. Besides, that's a rather silly argument. We all know none of these movies were masterpieces. No one is asking for a masterpiece. It's as if you argued that someone being upset at being served a literal turd on a plate (TLJ) in their favourite fast food restaurant (Star wars franchise) is being picky and will only eat caviar with champagne (will only accept masterpieces). We're not asking for caviar and champagne every meal, we just don't want to be served actual feces in our plates. The one movie who is getting that type of hate is TLJ. It's not getting hate because its status as a masterpiece (or not), it's getting hate because it's a terrible movie several notches below the masterpiece category.

Rogue One and Solo weren't masterpieces either, but both movies were decent enough and were liked by the fanbase overall.

Honestly, if I'm RJ and KK, I hope the entire world is made of people like you who conflate issues and have zero expectations. You're the ideal public since you have basically zero standard of quality or expectations beyond the most basic popcorn flick which is 100% fine if that's the case. We all take different things away from our experiences watching movies. Some people just want to turn their brain off for 2 hours, see pretty distracting lights with a somewhat cohesive story for some escapism. I actually often want that after a long week at work. But for star wars I have slightly higher expectations, not masterpiece expectations, but certainly TFA/Solo/RO/RotJ type expectations. I don't speak for everyone, but I'd say this view represents the view of most people who hated TLJ and almost no one is represented by your take on the situation.

I have 0 expectation for things that don't deserve high expectations. Star Wars is a popcorn flick and always has been. People expecting a great movie out of a franchise than NEVER produced one are setting themselves up for disappointement (ESB being to closest to one and yet, it is mostly a by-the-numbers tragic story).

Star Wars ranges from good to horrific, there is no "great" in there (if we talk about film making, not necessarily entertainment/cultural phenomenon). Star Wars ALWAYS has been by-the-numbers fantasy writing. ALWAYS! TLJ tried to do more and ended up being too preachy. It was still entertaining enough and it had some heart.

Most people's view on TLJ is of the "angry fan boy" variety. People rationalize their hate with points that look coherent to the untrained eye, but miss the mark for anyone who knows anything about cinema. Oh, they have every right to hate it, but when I see some people saying Rey is too strong too quick when Luke was exactly the same (and yes, I have read the awful debates about that) or that Snoke was a token vilain when Palpatine, IN THE OT, was the same, I cannnot help but to face palm. People insist on VERY SMALL details to justify their feelings. Their feeling is legitimate, most of their complaints aren't. And, to be clear, I am not necessarily referring to HF.

From what I have read about TFA and TLJ, most complaints are because the movies aren't what they wanted them to be. On its own, TLJ is a good popcorn flick. As a Star Wars film, I can understand some of the disappointment even though I personally like SOME of the risks RJ took (many decisions I didn't like, but that's just me).

TLJ wasn't a trash movie, it was a movie that didn't meet the exagerate expectations of an IMMENSE fan base. It has its flaws, like any movie, but, to me, many have been greatly exagerated to justify some people's hatred for the choices that were made. It is one thing to say you didn't like one thing, but quite another to use a flaw pretty much all epics have to claim the movie is objectively bad. And that is what annoys me. TLJ didn't hit the righ notes while a movie like Infinity Wars mostly did. That, I can agree with. Reading the TLJ has destroyed Star Wars or was an awful movie, it makes me laugh.

 

[S E P H]

I have 0 expectation for things that don't deserve high expectations. Star Wars is a popcorn flick and always has been. People expecting a great movie out of a franchise than NEVER produced one are setting themselves up for disappointement (ESB being to closest to one and yet, it is mostly a by-the-numbers tragic story).

Star Wars ranges from good to horrific, there is no "great" in there (if we talk about film making, not necessarily entertainment/cultural phenomenon). Star Wars ALWAYS has been by-the-numbers fantasy writing. ALWAYS! TLJ tried to do more and ended up being too preachy. It was still entertaining enough and it had some heart.

Most people's view on TLJ is of the "angry fan boy" variety. People rationalize their hate with points that look coherent to the untrained eye, but miss the mark for anyone who knows anything about cinema. Oh, they have every right to hate it, but when I see some people saying Rey is too strong too quick when Luke was exactly the same (and yes, I have read the awful debates about that) or that Snoke was a token vilain when Palpatine, IN THE OT, was the same, I cannnot help but to face palm. People insist on VERY SMALL details to justify their feelings. Their feeling is legitimate, most of their complaints aren't. And, to be clear, I am not necessarily referring to HF.

From what I have read about TFA and TLJ, most complaints are because the movies aren't what they wanted them to be. On its own, TLJ is a good popcorn flick. As a Star Wars film, I can understand some of the disappointment even though I personally like SOME of the risks RJ took (many decisions I didn't like, but that's just me).

TLJ wasn't a trash movie, it was a movie that didn't meet the exagerate expectations of an IMMENSE fan base. It has its flaws, like any movie, but, to me, many have been greatly exagerated to justify some people's hatred for the choices that were made. It is one thing to say you didn't like one thing, but quite another to use a flaw pretty much all epics have to claim the movie is objectively bad. And that is what annoys me. TLJ didn't hit the righ notes while a movie like Infinity Wars mostly did. That, I can agree with. Reading the TLJ has destroyed Star Wars or was an awful movie, it makes me laugh.

I hated TLJ of what it could've been and how it went off into nine different directions and eventually ended up as nothing except another standalone movie as TFA before it. Instead of building a trilogy story-line as the Marvel Universe does, Star Wars thus far has been as boring and linear as you can make it.

 

[Blender]

Chicks in purple hair, guys acting on their "feelings", saving CGI animals, and an underlying message of "doing the right thing". It had everything except ***** hats.

Luke spends the entire OT acting on his feelings, and one of the main messages of the OT is about doing the right thing and standing up against the oppressive empire.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Chicks in purple hair, guys acting on their "feelings", saving CGI animals, and an underlying message of "doing the right thing". It had everything except ***** hats.

I hate movies that shove messages like "you are supposed to like the good guys."

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I hated TLJ of what it could've been and how it went off into nine different directions and eventually ended up as nothing except another standalone movie as TFA before it. Instead of building a trilogy story-line as the Marvel Universe does, Star Wars thus far has been as boring and linear as you can make it.

Would you say Star Wars suffers from the standard the MCU established?

To me, that would be a very good point. The MCU changed the game when it comes to building a fantasy franchise. Star Wars was not able to follow.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

That's garbage self-selected unscientific data, and it can't even purport to have the correct sampling frame since there's absolutely no way to determine whether or not someone rating the film actually saw it. If you think that's at all a valid analysis you should probably go to school and take a statistics class.

CinemaScore uses scientific sampling methods to get representative samples of people who are actually guaranteed to have seen the film.

I actually took 2 stats classes in university almost 20 years ago, but I honestly have not really had to use statistics that much in my field of work, and what you don't use tends to atrophy. I had never really thought of it that way to be honest and what you say certainly makes sense. I could have done without the "go to school" haughty attitude however. Was that really necessary ? That type of comments will be sure to instantly pit people against you and prevent people from actually seeing the worth in perfectly good arguments just in the name of ego. In the future, you should try to tone that down, although I am sure you are a lot more polite with people in person (although, if that is the case, why do this on the internet?). That being said, I am no better than anyone on that front. I can sometimes be abrasive on the internet.

As for your actual argument, CinemaScore isn't any better than any other site. It can have the most scientific method to get representative samples in the world, it remains stupid to rate a film when you come out of the theater without having had time to think about it and digest it. Right after I have seen a movie for the first time, I am in no position to have an actual intelligent opinion on a movie aside from a general overall feeling not based on rational arguments and reason. My thoughts tend to be all over the place, and it takes some time to think about it, talk about it with other people, to finally coalesce it into a well thought out coherent take on the movie. You can say getting other people's opinion taint my own opinion and makes me biased, but I just think that's part of life and something that's actually desirable. You want other people's input to color your own a little and give it more value. Honestly, if someone came to me and asked me for my opinion on a movie while I was coming out of the theater going to my car, my only goal would be to get rid of the person asking me questions. I love the scientific method, I work for an engineering firm, but sometimes things look good in theory, then it doesn't actually work in the field, and you have to be able to move past the theory and ask yourself why your perfectly sound theory isn't actually working in an experimentation setting. If CinemaScores says that people overall liked TLJ with an A rating, there's something wrong with it. There is just no way that this is the case. Perhaps that it's not fair to say that half the people hated the movie either. But ultimately, we can only go with the flawed information we do have while taking into account that it is probably not perfectly accurate.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I hate movies that shove messages like "you are supposed to like the good guys."

Give me one example of a movie that shoved this message down your throat.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

People *****ed about TFA because it was too similar to ANH

People *****ed about TLJ because it was too much of a departure from traditional Star Wars

Both are perfectly good entertaining blockbusters with so heart like the old one were. They have flaws, just like the old movies had. The major difference? People expect these movies to be masterpieces. They are a vehicule to sell merch. They are marketed as such. Of course they are going to be cliché and somewhat ridiculous... the old ones were.

I expect people to ***** about IX for some stupid reason. The SW crowd is mostly unbearable and full of itself. Enjoy it or do not, there is no try.

I think you are misrepresenting people's position. I didn't dislike it because it was "different," I disliked it because it was incongruent with the rest of the series.

 

[Blender]

Give me one example of a movie that shoved this message down your throat.

His post was sarcasm. Every Star Wars movie does this though. The franchise is like a classic white hat/black hat western in that sense. There is no mistaking which people you are supposed to cheer for.

 

[LarKing]

The Last Jedi did have a few subplots that were mostly useless. I hated everything with Finn and Rose, even though I love Finn’s character in general. Their whole thing seemed to tell you to love and have hope. This didn’t really match the other theme with Luke, Kylo, and Rey though. There’s was more about neither side being right. Both living without emotion and living with too much emotion isn’t a good choice. Rey needs to become something in between. I think the trilogy is moreso leading toward this resolution.

I loved everything with Kylo, Rey, and Luke. I think this plot was amazing. Kylo and Rey have serious chemistry. I like Finn and Poe as characters but I hated their parts of the plot in TLJ. Rose is an awful character and I hope she’s killed off asap even though I know that won’t happen.

The whole Leia in space thing was beyond stupid. They need to get away from the old cast and they have for the most part except for her. I hated the ship going at hyperspace to destroy Snoke’s ship part too. I can’t remember where I read this, it might have been in a book which isn’t canon, but you can’t go through ships like that at hyperspace. They have shields and would just be crushed immediately. Otherwise, why even build guns anymore if you can just send one ship through them? Don’t even need to sacrifice anyone either as a droid could clearly handle this. They went for the wow effect with this and the Leia in space thing. I think most of the older fans especially hated these parts because they make no sense. At least that’s how I feel about it.