Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX

Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. NyQuil

    NyQuil F.Y.R.O.U.S.

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    64,552
    Likes Received:
    10,251
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    I think the idea is that he was a shattered, devastated vessel at this point with nothing left but the Dark Side. His beloved was dead. His order was destroyed, many at his own hands. His old mentor had betrayed him.

    Ultimately, that void was filled with ambition and the need for power, to rule the galaxy, as was his plan in Empire Strikes Back. There are some hints as to his belief that the strong should rule in his conversations with Padme. This belief is twisted into autocratic visions.

    "If you only knew the PPPpppppooooowwwwaahhh of the Dark Side."
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
    HFBCommenter likes this.
  2. Roman Fell

    Roman Fell Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    271,934
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Broadcasting Personality
    Location:
    Reddit
    That's true. I remember in Episode 2 when they're in the grass and he tells Padme about it.
     
  3. CaptainCrunch67

    CaptainCrunch67 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,522
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    124
    I think you're over simplifying the reason for Anakin's change.

    Yes he wanted to save his wife from death, and Palpatine offered that. However Anakin's real reason for falling goes back as far as the Phantom menace, where he told Qui-Gon that he dreamed that he would come back and free the Slaves.

    Then later when his mother was killed and he could do nothing about it.

    Once Anakin came to the Jedi Order, Palpatine kept pushing in those tap roots.

    Hey Ani, the Jedi are limiting your power, but I see you being the most powerful Jedi and they need you because of that.

    Remember that the Jedi were basically limiting him and Palpatine was lying to him with the truth.

    They don't trust you.

    They are frightened of your power so they try to limit you

    On top of that, he promised nothing more then power. That whole speech in the opera house wasn't about saving Padme, it was about Anakin gaining power that he couldn't get from the Jedi, that he was bound in chains by the Jedi.

    So when it came down to his speech, it was mainly. Hey look Ani, the Jedi are conspiring against the Republic, they want to limit your power while increasing their own. You've always dreamed of doing great things and becoming a man of conscience, that can't happen if your with the Jedi, and by the way, they're lying to you and conspiring behind your back to kill the only one that's shown you respect and that's me. Oh and by the way, I'm that path to power and I might have the power to save your wife.

    So Anakin who's already angry at the Jedi and feel they're pretty much corrupt and goes back, and Mace basically says, I don't trust you and I'm going to see Palpatine.

    So in effect everything that Palpatine said is true from a certain point of view.

    Anakin wanted power more then anything else he even said that to Padme who he was seeing as more of a possession at that point then anything else.

    So why didn't Vader slaughter Palpatine after his fall, I mean he talked about it with Padme. But in the end, Palpatine was the only one who ever really understood him, accepted him and told him the truth. He also knew that he needed Palpatine for power. Also Anakin was born a slave, and ended up a slave and he was willing to accept that as penance
     
    HFBCommenter likes this.
  4. ThePhoenixx

    ThePhoenixx Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,584
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Trophy Points:
    139
    He's an emo kid. The sensitive definition kind. He is easily offended.

    Kids today can relate.
     
  5. CaptainCrunch67

    CaptainCrunch67 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,522
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Matt Stover really did a great job of the ROTS novel and explains why Anakin accepted Palpatine in the end. This was the final passage after Vader woke up in his suit

     
    x Tame Impala and HFBCommenter like this.
  6. Roman Fell

    Roman Fell Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    271,934
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Broadcasting Personality
    Location:
    Reddit
    Thanks, I only finished Ep 3 on Sunday so I was curious about that. Your comment definitely clears things up for sure.
     
  7. CaptainCrunch67

    CaptainCrunch67 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,522
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    124
    There are a couple of things with the Sith that are important and really laid out well in both the movie and Star Wars Lore.

    Palpatine - "Evil is a point of view"

    While Palpatine was certainly evil, nobody is evil for evil's sake. Palpatine wanted to reform the galaxy. He felt that left to their own devices the trillions of citizens would be screwed over by corruption, and infighting and greed. Under one all powerful ruler that corruption wouldn't take root. In the book Dark Lord, Palpatine rejoices with Anakin and himself that the whole fear and anger and hate that fuel the darkside are notions of motality that one must work past in pursuit of a higher goal, and that's to save and reform the Republic into an Empire that bought peace to the galaxy and removed a corrupt government.

    Even Padme helped Anakin's fall with one clarifying statement.

    "What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we have been fighting to destroy? "

    Palpatine was actually very brilliant. He pointed out that the Sith were virtually identical to the Jedi, both cults were in pursuit of greater power, and both were afraid to lose their power, however he also pointed out that the Jedi were hypocrites propping up a corrupt government.

    Also in Star Wars Lore when you look at the Sith Code, it would be incredibly seductive to a former child slave being held down and lied to by the Jedi.


    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.
     
  8. Osprey

    Osprey Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    19,553
    Likes Received:
    1,356
    Trophy Points:
    169
    His parents divorced and his father was no longer around. He was then sent off as a boy for training, during which his Jedi Master tried to kill him in his sleep. In other words, his parents didn't want him and the Republic didn't want him, or at least that's no doubt how he felt. It sort of can't be held against him that he joined the one faction (albeit an evil one) that did want him. He's very conflicted, looking to Vader as a father figure while rejecting his actual father. He also cries or chokes up a few times.

    Everything about Kylo is designed to make him a sympathetic, relatable villain. A redemption arc has been telegraphed since the first movie. That doesn't mean that he'll join the light side or that Rey will "redeem" him, but we can be sure that, when he dies, he'll do or say something that implies regret and makes his death feel tragic, rather than celebration-inducing. That's the kind of completion of a redemption arc that we're talking about. You don't need Rey to try again to redeem him and, this time, be successful for it to be a redemption arc.
     
  9. x Tame Impala

    x Tame Impala Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    19,257
    Likes Received:
    1,792
    Trophy Points:
    156
    No.

    I am not required to read outside source material to be up to do date on MAJOR storylines. That’s completely ridiculous and it leads to a total lack of investment as well as confusion for a large amount of people in the audience.
     
  10. RandV

    RandV It's a wolf v2.0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    23,034
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    Trophy Points:
    230
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Home Page:
    Maybe creative vision would be a better term? Either way like I said you had one guy who's main focus was to undo the prequels and recreate the original magic, passed on by the studio exec to a guy who wanted to subvert our expectations - and personally I liked what Abrams did, Johnson not so much.

    What I'm getting at here is it was George Lucas' Star Wars, Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, the Wachowksi's Matrix trilogy, soon to be James Cameron Avatar, and while they have different directors the MCU is creatively held together from day 1 by Producer Kevin Feige. On the other hand Star Wars right now is being treated more like the DC Universe, and while they're may not be anything as bad as Justice League going from Zach Snyder to Joss Whedon mid-production this is where I see the problem is with the current Star Wars trilogy.
     
    MadDevil likes this.
  11. RandV

    RandV It's a wolf v2.0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    23,034
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    Trophy Points:
    230
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Home Page:
    Haha I'm not suggesting anyone should do that. I'm not that big on the 'EU' myself, apart from reading the next two trilogies as a teen and loving some of the 90's video games. I was just saying , and this is only my opinion, that story-wise we'd probably get a better trilogy if we could skip maybe 10-15 years after RotJ where you have Luke heading a new Jedi Academy and the New Repbulic jockeying with the Imperial remnants for position in the galaxy.

    So in the context of what we got I'm looking at the Ben Solo->Kylo Ren transition time period would have been a better starting place than the blank state period we got.
     
  12. Big Poppa Puck

    Big Poppa Puck HF's Villain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    18,651
    Likes Received:
    206
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    D-Boss' Dungeon
    I try to forget those scenes. And when I do it makes me actually enjoy Episode II.
     
  13. S E P H

    S E P H @SEPH_WHL

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    15,414
    Likes Received:
    3,295
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Occupation:
    WHL
    Location:
    Toruń, PL
    And what's wrong about that? Don't get me wrong it is a total cliche about "strong man coming to save the day", but Finn would save her on an emotional side which I don't think has been done too many times. In worst possible case, Finn saves Rey who then saves Kylo. A missed opportunity is a missed opportunity.

    Rey is already a total Mary Sue going toe-to-toe in a lightsabre fight with Kylo Ren, not sure her getting saved by a dude diminishes an already overpowered diminished character.
     
  14. NyQuil

    NyQuil F.Y.R.O.U.S.

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    64,552
    Likes Received:
    10,251
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    I was just making a bit of a joke.

    I agree that Finn has been oddly sidetracked for some reason.
     
  15. S E P H

    S E P H @SEPH_WHL

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    15,414
    Likes Received:
    3,295
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Occupation:
    WHL
    Location:
    Toruń, PL
    Oh lol, totally got me on that one!
     
  16. ArGarBarGar

    ArGarBarGar Defense Please

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    37,936
    Likes Received:
    1,910
    Trophy Points:
    186
    The thing is I don't think there is any kind of "problem" with the movies, so I don't have an issue with the different directors running things. However you do need to take into account Abrams was a part of the process for TLJ and despite his initial draft not being utilized was very positive about Johnson's vision for the middle chapter.

    TLJ definitely had a "darker" tone to it, but I don't see this divorce in feel or creative vision between the two movies that others are seeing.
     
  17. Roman Fell

    Roman Fell Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    271,934
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Broadcasting Personality
    Location:
    Reddit
    To add onto this as someone who binged II and III last weekend (so I've now seen every one) the new movies aren't as bad as everyone says they're are. It's a whole new world. They pepper in the classic characters, but the Galactic Empire and Palpatine are long gone.

    I won't say that TLJ was "the best" but it's also not "the WOAT". It's just there. It was good entertainment.

    Would be curious where people rank all the movies so far.
     
  18. BigBadBruins7708

    BigBadBruins7708 Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    4,383
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    East Providence, RI
    I have TLJ right in the middle.

    Its better than:

    Episodes 1-3
    Return of the Jedi

    Its clearly worse than

    New Hope
    Empire
    Force Awakens

    I'd also argue that New Hope benefits greatly from being the 1st and the power of nostalgia. If it were released today with the same level of scrutiny as other modern Star Wars movies get, it'd be hated like TLJ and Luke would be called a Mary Sue
     
  19. Pilky01

    Pilky01 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    8,405
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Occupation:
    Not hockey
    Location:
    GTA
    Are they? As a casual Star Wars fan my impression was The First Order are the empire and the guy who got cut in half was Palpatine.

    I kept waiting through the last two movies for them to establish this new cinematic world but it just feels like a weird version of the old one but nothing has a story anymore.
     
    x Tame Impala likes this.
  20. CaptainCrunch67

    CaptainCrunch67 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    5,522
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Empire Strikes Back - probably the best movie of all, Lucas didn't write dialogue or direct so its pacing and script and character work was top notch

    A new Hope - You had me at huge Star Destroyer flying overhead. At times when you go back and watch it, its slower then I remembered and the characters a bit more wooden. But an amazing story and Star Destroyer
    Return of the Jedi - Still a great adventure story, great effects, Palpatine. Some of the dialogue was poor.
    TFA - It was ok, but realistically its plot points were a New Hope with a bigger deathstar that could shoot death stars out of its cannon. The acting was solid and the effects were good.
    Revenge of the Sith - Except for the NOOOOOO, this was a pretty solid movie, I loved Palpatine in it, the effects were great.
    Phantom Menace - They soft shoed on the slavery thing, the effects were too animated, and the dialogue was forced. This movie destroyed Jake Lloyds whole life
    TLJ - I thought this movie was pretty dreadful. The acting was poor, the Rose/Finn stuff was awkward and stupid and did I say awkward. Poe was unlikable, they made Hux a pratfalling comedy character. I couldn't care about Ren the angry teenager.
    Clone Wars- Just poor execution throughout, there was no chemistry between Anakin and Padme. Not enough Palpatine. The sand dialogue was cringe worthy.
     
  21. RandV

    RandV It's a wolf v2.0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    23,034
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    Trophy Points:
    230
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Home Page:
    For the new trilogy Abrams used the 1st movie to set a clean slate for a new 'rebellion vs empire', with a new Emperor, Vader, and Luke, leaving a lot of open questions. Where as ESB picked up some indeterminate time after ANH, and AotC maybe 10 years after TPM, Johnson picks the story up immediately where TFA left off, and quickly kills off the new Emperor, brushes aside all the questions left over, reduces the 'rebellion' to a handful of characters that can all fit into the Millennium Falcon, and he specifically tells us this all happens within 30 hour time frame.

    We actually have a perfect iconic illustration of this effect or what I'm saying with Abrams ending TFA with Rey handing Luke his old lightsaber, and Johnson opening TLJ with Luke tossing it over the cliff. Abrams may have been positive about the script, but right there Johnson takes what Abrams was building and blatantly says 'nah we're not doing that'.

    I'm a fan of lengthy epics and there's a way you need to go about planning and pacing these if you want it to work till the end. A movie trilogy should be considered in this category, and both prior trilogies follow the basic idea, but Johnson's fundamentally breaks this. Taking as a whole a Star Wars trilogy should be a grand space opera, but two thirds of the way through this trilogy's screen team and with the time frames Johnson specifically set (there's a reason why it's best to be vague about these things) we've covered what, maybe 3-4 days?
     
    x Tame Impala likes this.
  22. Mr Fahrenheit

    Mr Fahrenheit Valar Morghulis

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,279
    Likes Received:
    380
    Trophy Points:
    94
    If you take out any Anakin scene when hes not with Obi-Wan in AotC its actually a decent movie
     
    Big Poppa Puck likes this.
  23. Roman Fell

    Roman Fell Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    271,934
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Broadcasting Personality
    Location:
    Reddit
    The visit to Kamino is definitely interesting for sure. People really don't like the Anakin - Padme love story though. But also Anakin goes to Tatoonie which is also a good plot line too. Hey look, it's Luke's uncle and aunt :laugh:
     
  24. ArGarBarGar

    ArGarBarGar Defense Please

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    37,936
    Likes Received:
    1,910
    Trophy Points:
    186
    The problem is Luke in TFA is on a distant planet without any means for people to find him except for some map, either unaware or not caring while this new FO commits genocide and his former pupil murders his best friend in Han Solo. You HAVE to address that in some way, and with the way Abrams set that up it was likely for the movie to pick up right there. The trilogy doesn't have to occur during a long period of time or a short period of time. It has to occur in a long enough time to tell a good story and tell it well. This is an arbitrary rule you are assigning to Star Wars films.
     
  25. ThePhoenixx

    ThePhoenixx Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,584
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Trophy Points:
    139
    If RJ doesn't pay you, he should.

    Keep fighting the good fight. Really respect your determination and loyalty.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"