NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs III

[Lady Rhian]

They were up 3-1 in the series. Yes, the call was bad - but they certainly did plenty to lose it as well.

Absolutely no dispute from me on this- I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Prince Pasta]

tell us how ya really feel Jonathan

He had me agreeing until he said they were robbed, need to not give up 4 goals on the PK. Also had the same opportunities in OT :/

 

[Johnnyduke]

Not sure how that would have been a double minor for drawing blood when he never hit Pavelski in the head. At most 2 minute minor for cross checking (which I still think would have been absurd because it seems that type of cross check on a faceoff goes uncalled all the time).

 

[LSCII]

Not sure how that would have been a double minor for drawing blood when he never hit Pavelski in the head. At most 2 minute minor for cross checking (which I still think would have been absurd because it seems that type of cross check on a faceoff goes uncalled all the time).

Does it matter if he didn't hit him in the head though? They called it a cross check and major, so it's not a huge stretch to think they could have blown it by calling it a double minor either. There were 4 possible outcomes. No call. Two minute cross check. 4 minute double minor for drawing blood. And 5 minute major. Either way, whatever penalty they called, the Knights were going to have to kill off a penalty. Instead of just dealing with it though, they melted down and lost their minds. That's what lost them the game, not the bad call.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Of course it matters. I've only ever seen high sticking as a penalty where a minor turns into a double minor because of drawing blood and that only happens when you hit someone in the face with your stick. So if you cross check someone in the head and draw blood I could see a double minor. Not for cross checking in chest and having someone draw blood after falling awkwardly. The only reasonable call there is a minor for cross checking and even that is debatable. So let's say they give up a PP goal there. Still a hell of a lot different than a 5 minute major. Just because they didn't kill the major effectively doesn't mean it wasn't a bad job by the refs to even put them in that position. And it wasn't just bad penalty killing. The Sharks had a great PP, they deserve the credit for that. Unfortunately it was a PP they didn't deserve. In the end this should probably lead to majors being reviewable by the on ice officials. I admit they are in a tough spot there. Watching at home your initial reaction is oh wow someone knocked Pavelski in the head. The refs should be given the opportunity to see it on replay.

I didn't see anyone on Vegas lose their mind out there in the aftermath. There had to have been a lot of uncertainty from the players as to what happened. They simply couldn't kill an undeserved 5 min major. And to their credit they actually tied the game after that rather than completely folding.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Does it matter if he didn't hit him in the head though? They called it a cross check and major, so it's not a huge stretch to think they could have blown it by calling it a double minor either. There were 4 possible outcomes. No call. Two minute cross check. 4 minute double minor for drawing blood. And 5 minute major. Either way, whatever penalty they called, the Knights were going to have to kill off a penalty. Instead of just dealing with it though, they melted down and lost their minds. That's what lost them the game, not the bad call.

Obviously the glaring difference is that the most goals they could have given up in any other circumstance was 2 (double minor).

Vegas sucks for giving up 4 goals on one kill no doubt. And I am usually the first person to discount fans complaining about referees. But this wasn’t just “a bad call”. This was as severe and bad a call as possible at the most crucial of times. It is pretty clear to me that the sharks don’t win this game without that call.

Out of all times to give a fanbase permission to be outraged over a refereeing decision, this is the peak example.

 

[LSCII]

Obviously the glaring difference is that the most goals they could have given up in any other circumstance was 2 (double minor).

Vegas sucks for giving up 4 goals on one kill no doubt. And I am usually the first person to discount fans complaining about referees. But this wasn’t just “a bad call”. This was as severe and bad a call as possible at the most crucial of times. It is pretty clear to me that the sharks don’t win this game without that call.

Out of all times to give a fanbase permission to be outraged over a refereeing decision, this is the peak example.

Did it alter the course of the game? Absolutely. Was that due to the bad call or the piss poor execution on the PK though? That's what I come down to. They had a chance to dig deep and not let SJ score 4 FREAKING goals. They didn't. They also still tied the game and had chances to win it in OT. So the call certainly impacted the game, but it wasn't the reason they lost. It was the reason SJ got back into it, but they had chances after that.

 

[JCRO]

Let's go Canes!!!

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Major penalties, especially game misconducts, should absolutely be reviewable from Toronto.

I doubt that ends up as 5/10/game last night if they had that ability.

the big thing the NHL needs to figure out is the implementation of something like this. I think the idea that something like that ought to be reviewable is obvious, but they need to streamline the process so it's not a 10 minute pause in the game while the refs on the ice review video every time. Part of me thinks it should be as simple as Toronto just calling down to the refs and overturning the penalty (or say reducing it from 5 to 2), but I can see how the refs would hate having that decision taken out of their hands and how the teams would hate the accountability for the call being taken out of the building & placed on some faceless entity in another location.

 

[DominicT]

I'm definitely in the minority here.

Yes, the officials got it wrong - not the major, but the call. It was an interference call not a crosscheck IMO.

And the rules were changed in 2009: Any interference call that results in an injury is an automatic major.

Flame away. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. And I was cheering for the VGK.

 

[DominicT]

the big thing the NHL needs to figure out is the implementation of something like this. I think the idea that something like that ought to be reviewable is obvious, but they need to streamline the process so it's not a 10 minute pause in the game while the refs on the ice review video every time. Part of me thinks it should be as simple as Toronto just calling down to the refs and overturning the penalty (or say reducing it from 5 to 2), but I can see how the refs would hate having that decision taken out of their hands and how the teams would hate the accountability for the call being taken out of the building & placed on some faceless entity in another location.

It came up in the last GM meetings.

The GM's wanted no part of it.

 

[LSCII]

I'm definitely in the minority here.

Yes, the officials got it wrong - not the major, but the call. It was an interference call not a crosscheck IMO.

And the rules were changed in 2009: Any interference call that results in an injury is an automatic major.

Flame away. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. And I was cheering for the VGK.

So you're saying the outcome of the call was correct (being that it resulted in a major), but the call itself was bungled (cross check vs interference)? Makes sense.

 

[Trap Jesus]

I'm definitely in the minority here.

Yes, the officials got it wrong - not the major, but the call. It was an interference call not a crosscheck IMO.

And the rules were changed in 2009: Any interference call that results in an injury is an automatic major.

Flame away. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. And I was cheering for the VGK.

It wasn't the cross check/interference by Eakin that resulted in the injury though, it was the freak collision with Stastny afterwards. I think you have to cut the officials some slack when things happen so quickly, but you have to see something happen to make the call. They completely botched the call and called it based on the reaction/aftermath rather than the play itself.

 

[DominicT]

So you're saying the outcome of the call was correct (being that it resulted in a major), but the call itself was bungled (cross check vs interference)? Makes sense.

Exactly. By the letter of the rule book, the major was the right call. The penalty they chose to call was incorrect. IMO of course.

Do you think it was interference Lonnie?

 

[TCB]

Whether the 5 minute major was suitable or not Vegas still didn't do their job on the kill. I mean 4 PP goals in one 5 minute penalty, I don't recall ever watching a game and seeing it. Just a terrible kill. Then in OT where Jones looked shaky too me, the knights couldn't muster any pressure at all.

 

[DominicT]

It wasn't the cross check/interference by Eakin that resulted in the injury though, it was the freak collision with Stastny afterwards. I think you have to cut the officials some lack when things happen so quickly, but you have to see something happen to make the call. They completely botched the call and called it based on the reaction/aftermath rather than the play itself.

Semantics really.

The argument can be made that if the interference didn't happen, then the injury wouldn't have happened. So it was a direct result of the interference.

By the letter of the rule book.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Semantics really.

The argument can be made that if the interference didn't happen, then the injury wouldn't have happened. So it was a direct result of the interference.

By the letter of the rule book.

Is it semantics though? You can go way down the rabbit hole with plays indirectly causing an injury, point is that Eakin did not injure him directly. Like if I crosscheck a guy onto the ice and a couple seconds later another player accidentally falls on him, injuring him, does that mean it should be a major? You have to draw the line somewhere and to me he clearly did not get injured from Eakin's cross check.

 

[RoccoF14]

Whether the 5 minute major was suitable or not Vegas still didn't do their job on the kill. I mean 4 PP goals in one 5 minute penalty, I don't recall ever watching a game and seeing it. Just a terrible kill. Then in OT where Jones looked shaky too me, the knights couldn't muster any pressure at all.

This Vegas series brought back a lot of bad memories for me of the 2010 B's-Philly series.

Vegas was up 3-1 and after Game 4, Martin Jones was a complete shambles. Things were set up perfectly for them and they didn't close the deal in Games 5 or 6.

3-0 lead in Game 7, with 10min to play. You absolutely HAVE to close that game out. 5min major or no major. Inexcusable.

 

[LSCII]

Exactly. By the letter of the rule book, the major was the right call. The penalty they chose to call was incorrect. IMO of course.

Do you think it was interference Lonnie?

I think it was a penalty either way, and if a major can be called based on result, then it would seem like interference should have been the call. I also think it was a case where he was impeded, then hit again as he was falling by a second player. Seemed kind of unnecessary to me.

 

[TCB]

This Vegas series brought back a lot of bad memories for me of the 2010 B's-Philly series.

Vegas was up 3-1 and after Game 4, Martin Jones was a complete shambles. Things were set up perfectly for them and they didn't close the deal in Games 5 or 6.

3-0 lead in Game 7, with 10min to play. You absolutely HAVE to close that game out. 5min major or no major. Inexcusable.

It most certainly did
Bruins up 3-games to 0 and 3-0 in the 7th game only to lose, but hey one year later.

 

[DominicT]

Is it semantics though? You can go way down the rabbit hole with plays indirectly causing an injury, point is that Eakin did not injure him directly. Like if I crosscheck a guy onto the ice and a couple seconds later another player accidentally falls on him, injuring him, does that mean it should be a major? You have to draw the line somewhere and to me he clearly did not get injured from Eakin's cross check.

I think the injury came from hitting his head on the ice. That's where the blood came from and I didn't see any contact from anyone on that side of his head. And that wouldn't have happened without the interference. Hence "any interference causing an injury is an automatic major".

Its like cross checking a guy 5 feet away from the boards - he hits the boards, gets injured, and a major is called. It's a direct result of the crosscheck.

 

[LSCII]

Whether the 5 minute major was suitable or not Vegas still didn't do their job on the kill. I mean 4 PP goals in one 5 minute penalty, I don't recall ever watching a game and seeing it. Just a terrible kill. Then in OT where Jones looked shaky too me, the knights couldn't muster any pressure at all.

This is what I come back to every time. You had a call go against you. That doesn't mean you roll over and let them score at will. You sack up and kill that penalty off. You give up 4 goals in 5 minutes, you earned that loss.

 

[Trap Jesus]

I think the injury came from hitting his head on the ice. That's where the blood came from and I didn't see any contact from anyone on that side of his head. And that wouldn't have happened without the interference. Hence "any interference causing an injury is an automatic major".

Its like cross checking a guy 5 feet away from the boards - he hits the boards, gets injured, and a major is called. It's a direct result of the crosscheck.

It's a messy argument but the way he fell was clearly changed through his contact with Stastny. Maybe he breaks an arm or something for all I know if he didn't make contact with Stastny but the point is that it was clearly through his contact with Stastny that his body contorts and he wasn't able to brace himself going down on his head, which is what the injury was.

 

[JRull86]

5 "finalists" Tavares met with:

NYI, Leafs, Sharks, Bruins, Dallas.

Leafs only team out lol.

Stupid stat, but love it.

 

[LouJersey]

5 "finalists" Tavares met with:

NYI, Leafs, Sharks, Bruins, Dallas.

Leafs only team out lol.

Stupid stat, but love it.