Stanley Cup Dynasties

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Leaf Lander, Nov 7, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
View Users: View Users
  1. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    30,981
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Occupation:
    EI Baby
    Location:
    BWO Headquarters
    Home Page:
    Stanley Cup Dynasties

    1919-1927 Ottawa Senators
    4 Stanley Cups (1920, 1921, 1923, 1927)

    Memorable Players: Punch Broadbent, Cy Denneny, King Clancy, Frank Nighbor, Jack Darragh, George Boucher, Hec Kilrea, Jack Adams, Alex Connell, Clint Benedict, Sprague Cleghorn.
    The Senators finished first seven times during this stretch. The coaches in this period were Pete Green and Dave Gill. The managers were Tommy Gorman and Dave Gill.

    1947-51 Toronto Maple Leafs
    4 Stanley Cups ( 1947, 1948, 1949, 1951)

    Memorable Players: Bill Barilko, Turk Broda, Al Rollins, Ted Kennedy, Syl Apps, Howie Meeker, Gus Mortson, Max Bentley, Joe Klukay, Jim Thomson, Sid Smith, Bill Ezinicki, Harry Watson, Don Metz, Nick Metz, Bob Goldham.
    The Leafs never finished first during this period in the regular season but had a playoff record of 35-11. The coaches were Hap Day and Joe Primeau. The manager was Conn Smythe.


    1950-55 Detroit Red Wings
    4 Stanley Cups (1950, 1952, 1954, 1955

    Memorable Players: Gordie Howe, Sid Abel, Ted Lindsay, Red Kelly, Terry Sawchuk, Jack Stewart, Pete Babando, Marcel Pronovost, Marty Pavelich, Leo Reise, Metro Prystai, Alex Delvecchio, Tony Leswick.
    The Red Wings finished first in all six of these season. The coaches were Tony Ivan and Jimmy Skinner. The manager was Jack Adams.


    1956-60 Montreal Canadiens
    5 Stanley Cups (1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960)

    Memorable Players: Maurice Richard, Henri Richard, Dickie Moore, Jean Beliveau, Bernie Geoffrion, Tom Johnson, Doug Harvey, Don Marshall, Jacques Plante, Jean Guy Talbot, Ralph Backstrom, Bert Olmstead.
    The Canadiens lost only five games in these five playoff seasons. In the regular season they finished first four times and second once. The coach for all five Cups was Toe Blake. The manager was Frank Selke.


    1962-1967 Toronto Maple Leafs
    4 Stanley Cups (1962, 1963, 1964, 1967)

    Memorable Players: Johnny Bower, Terry Sawchuk, Allan Stanley, Tim Horton, Carl Brewer, Bobby Baun, Marcel Pronovost, Frank Mahovlich, Dave Keon, Red Kelly, George Armstrong, Bob Pulford, Andy Bathgate, Dick Duff, Bob Nevin, Ron Stewart, Eddie Shack.
    The Leafs record was 16-8 in the Finals those four years. The coach and manager for all four titles was Punch Imlach.


    1965-1969 Montreal Canadiens
    4 Stanley Cups (1965, 1966, 1968, 1969)

    Memorable Players: Jean Beliveau, Yvan Cournoyer, Dick Duff, Ralph Backstrom, John Ferguson, Terry Harper, Ted Harris, Jacques Laperriere, Claude Provost, Henri Richard, Gump Worsley, Bobby Rousseau, J.C. Tremblay, Serge Savard, Rogatien Vachon.
    During these five seasons the Canadiens' winning percentage was .639 and their playoff record was 46-14. The coaches were Toe Blake and Claude Ruel. The manager was Sam Pollock.


    1976-79 Montreal Canadiens
    4 Stanley Cups (1976, 1977, 1978, 1979)

    Memorable Players: Rick Chartraw, Yvan Cournoyer, Ken Dryden, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Guy Lafleur, Yvon Lambert, Michel Larocque, Jacques Lemaire, Doug Risebrough, Steve Shutt, Mario Tremblay.
    The Canadiens won their four consecutive Cups in a remarkable 58 games, winning 48 and losing 10. They lost one game the first year, two the second, three the third and four the fourth. Scotty Bowman was the coach all four seasons. Sam Pollock was the general manager the first three years and Irving Grundman the managing director the fourth.


    1980-84 New York Islanders
    4 Stanley Cups (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983)

    Memorable Players: Mike Bossy, Bryan Trottier, Clark Gillies, Billy Smith, Glenn Resch, Denis Potvin, Bob Bourne, Gord Lane, Butch Goring, Anders Kallur, Dave Langevin, Ken Morrow, Wayne Merrick, Duane Sutter, Brent Sutter, Bob Nystrom, John Tonelli, Stefan Persson, Lorne Henning, Garry Howatt, Billy Carroll, Rollie Melanson.

    The Islanders won their four straight in only 78 playoff games (60 wins and only 18 losses). The team lost only 88 regular season games in those four years. The coach for all four Cups was Al Arbour and the manager was Bill Torrey.


    1984-90 Edmonton Oilers
    5 Stanley Cups (1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990)

    Memorable Players: Grant Fuhr, Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Glenn Anderson, Charlie Huddy, Jari Kurri, Kevin Lowe, Andy Moog, Bill Ranford, Paul Coffey, Lee Fogolin, Randy Gregg, Pat Hughes, Dave Hunter, Dave Lumley, Kevin McClelland, Willy Lindstrom, Dave Semenko, Esa Tikkanen, Mike Krushelnyski, Jeff Beaukeboom, Kelly Buchberger, Craig MacTavish, Steve Smith, Craig Simpson, Marty McSorley, Kent Nilsson, Craig Muni, Joe Murphy, Martin Gelinas, Adam Graves, Mark Lamb, Petr Klima, Dave Brown.

    The coaches for the five titles were Glen Sather and John Muckler. Sather also served as general manager for all of those seasons.

    reference www.nhl.com

    QUESTION



    Would you include modern cup winners and contenders such as Pittsburgs 2 wins in a row or NJ DETROITS COLORADO'S 3 wins over a few yrs as dynasty teams?

    If so does that shade new light onto cup winning teams from the past that won cups and contended for divisional dominance and lord stanley glory? Team like Boston and Philadelphia may be a good example.

    senerio:

    It is very hard to build a Dunasty since 1994. With many problems because of salary demands and constraints constraining budgets of the majority of nhl franchises. This thus has cause player movement from one team to another while the player still has prime playing yrs left.

    So, with modern day FA movement more teams thus thinning out the talent crop thus making it very difficult to draft and mold a Dynasty like team. Id that is true then maybe the term modern day dynasty fits NJ DETROIT AND COLORADO. Do you AGREE or DISAGREE withthe idea of re-evaluating the term dynasty for the modern era of hockey?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2005
  2. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    29,232
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Marketing Executive
    Location:
    San Diego
    Home Page:
    Absolutely not. Look at the record of accomplishment of the teams you cited. Including multiple Cup winners of recent times would be devaluing the term "dynasty". Now, that term itself is dubious, but nonetheless, I have gotten the strong feeling that some fans and writers would prefer re-defining "dynasty" to meet the ever lowering standards of today than adhering to the high standards set by teams of previous times.

    Just my opinion.
     
  3. katodelder

    katodelder Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think it's fair to say a team like modern-day Detroit winning 3 cups in 7 years in a 26-to-30-team league with free agency would be comparable to the teams who won 4-5 cups in 5-10 years in the 6-to-21-team leagues of yester-year.

    I would call Detoit 1997-2002 a dynasty. Their regular season dominance over this stretch would also be taken into consideration. New Jersey was never dominant the way the Red Wings were, which is why I wouldn't consider the Devils' 3 cups in 9 years a dynasty.

    These aren't dynasties:
    Pittsburgh 2 Cups, 1991-1993
    Colorado 2 Cups, 1996-2001
    New Jersey 3 Cups 1995-2003
    Boston 2 Cups, 1970-1972
    Philly 2 Cups, 1974-1975
     
  4. Verbeek

    Verbeek Human see, human do.

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    If Pittsburgh won the cup in 93 as well, when they had the best chance.. then yes I would. But they didn't so no.
     
  5. Big#D

    Big#D __________________

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You have to be joking. If you call Detroit's 3 Cups a dynasty, then you have to do the same for the Devils. IMO neither Detroit nor New Jersey were dynasties.

    By the way, free agency was the reason that Detroit won its 3 Cups. It would never have been able to do that by building within like the true dynasties. Detroit bought its Cups by paying the highest price for the best available talent. To say that it was difficult to do that with an unlimited budget is laughable.
     
  6. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    30,981
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Occupation:
    EI Baby
    Location:
    BWO Headquarters
    Home Page:
    detroit buys a cup....

    The leafs rangers and flyers did the same thing since 1994 and tried to buy the cup only detroit did though!

    Most teams used FA or late season trades to retool to go for another cup run look at the nyi or the 80's oilers for an example
     
  7. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,561
    Likes Received:
    589
    Trophy Points:
    139
    A back to back plus one = dynasty in the expansion era(26-30).
     
  8. Big McLargehuge

    Big McLargehuge Registered User

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    68,880
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Trophy Points:
    215
    Location:
    S. Pasadena, CA

    Yep.

    Thanks to David Volek the Pens weren't a dynasty, just a really, really, really good team.
     
  9. Brodeur

    Brodeur Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    17,704
    Likes Received:
    701
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Location:
    San Diego
    I don't think the Wings bought a Cup. If anything, when they started signing players (Whitney, Hatcher, CuJo) they started having difficulties in the playoffs.

    Free agents on their '02 team: Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille, Steve Duchesne, Fredrik Olausson. Everybody else was either drafted by the team, or acquired by trade.

    Free agents on their '98 team: Potentially none. Everybody was either drafted or acquired via trade. Perhaps a guy like Bob Rouse, but all their core guys were their own.
     
  10. doublejack

    doublejack Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    6,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Detroit
    I agree. I'm a Wings fan from Detroit so take that under consideration. But I believe 3 cups in 7 years is enough to qualify the 97-02 Wings as a dynasty. Let me epand that window a bit more, because the team really has been a major force for over a decade.

    95 - after several years of flirting with greatness, the Wings win the President's trophy in a shortened season. They lose in the SC finals to the Devils, dropping two close games at home and failing to recover in NJ.

    96 - the Wings win a 2nd straight Presidents trophy, setting an all-time NHL record with 62 wins. Their 131 points is almost 30 better than 2nd overall. Playing the Avalanche in the conference finals, the Wings lose in 6 games. The Aves go on to win the cup.

    97 - Detroit's play drops off a bit in the regular season, but they win the cup.

    98 - cup #2 despite losing Vladdy and trading Vernon, who had won the Conn Smythe in 97

    99 - Wings finish 6th in points, 3rd in goals overall. They sweep the Mighty Ducks in the 1st round, but Osgood in injured in game 4 putting a downer on the win. Bill Ranford, acquired at the trade deadline, steps in for the 2nd round against Colorado. He plays well for 2 games but can't keep it up. The Wings lose in 6.

    00 - Detroit finishes 2nd in points overall and led the NHL in goals. For the 2nd year in a row, they lose to the Aves in the 2nd round.

    01 - The Wings again finish 2nd in points. High expectations are dashed early though, as the team loses to the Kings in the first round in 6 games. Yzerman missed the series because of a broken ankle, and Shanahan was out with a broken foot.

    02 - 3rd cup in the run

    Those were the Scotty Bowman years. We didn't win 4 straight cups like the Islanders, but from 95 to 98 we were arguably just as dominant. I feel no shame about losing to Brodeur in the finals one year and Roy in the conference finals the next year. The latter part of Scotty's era the team was still a powerhouse, but not head-and-shoulders above the rest like they were before. I think in total it's enough to be considered a dynasty though.
     
  11. doublejack

    doublejack Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    6,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Detroit
    As Brodeur pointed out, you are mistaken. All of the key pieces to the Wings 3 cups were either drafted players (Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Osgood, Konstantinov...) or acquired via trade (Shanahan, Vernon, Hasek, Chelios...). In fact, the 97 & 98 cup teams were almost entirely made from home-grown players.

    The only two free agents I would give a fair amount of credit to for contributing to any of the cups are Larry Murphy who was signed in 96 and Hull who was signed in 01. The Wings are NOT the New York Bankees of the NHL. I would give that tile to the Rangers, only the Rag$ stink at putting together a decent team.
     
  12. #66

    #66 Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    11,585
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Mine too. So I'm going to have to quote you.
     
  13. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,265
    Likes Received:
    152
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Ridiculous. They drafted and developed the players who made up the core of those Cup winners. This lame argument was brought up constantly during the lockout; "that team only succeeds because of their payroll. If there was a cap they wouldn`t be so good." Interesting how they`re stil on top of the league even with a cap. The well-run organizations will always succeed.
     
  14. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Messages:
    27,269
    Likes Received:
    1,707
    Trophy Points:
    187
    There should be a second-tier designation: "Dominant teams"

    Colorado, Detroit and New Jersey have been DOMINANT over the last decade but no one of them has been head and shoulders above the others; all three have been together much better than the rest of the bunch.
     
  15. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    42,434
    Likes Received:
    2,928
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Drone
    Location:
    South Rectangle
    Osgood would have lost that series anyway. He never beat the Avs in a playoff series and has like a 3-10 record versus Colorado in the post season

    Kind of like the 80's NBA.
     
  16. Mick Vukota

    Mick Vukota Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Exactly why none of them should be considered a dynasty. A dynasty is when ONE team dominates over a period of time, not two or three. Like you said, these were dominant teams, but they were not dynasties.
     
  17. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    30,981
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Occupation:
    EI Baby
    Location:
    BWO Headquarters
    Home Page:
    QUESTION


    Would you include modern cup winners and contenders such as Pittsburgs 2 wins in a row or NJ DETROITS COLORADO'S 3 wins over a few yrs as dynasty teams?

    If so does that shade new light onto cup winning teams from the past that won cups and contended for divisional dominance and lord stanley glory? Team like Boston and Philadelphia may be a good example.

    senerio:

    It is very hard to build a Dynasty since 1994. With many problems because of salary demands and constraints constraining budgets of the majority of nhl franchises. This thus has cause player movement from one team to another while the player still has prime playing yrs left.

    So, with modern day FA movement more teams thus thinning out the talent crop thus making it very difficult to draft and mold a Dynasty like team. Id that is true then maybe the term modern day dynasty fits NJ DETROIT and COLORADO. Do you AGREE or DISAGREE withthe idea of re-evaluating the term dynasty for the modern era of hockey?


    In regards to teams like the Flyer's Bruins Pitts Colorado Det NJ that were an exceptionaly good team that won multiple cups I think teams like that should rise above the crowd into there own category championship team category....

    e.g. Sub- dynasty? or dynasty light, dynasty a- Modern Dynasty
     
  18. Birko19

    Birko19 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    11,198
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ont
    Home Page:
    You really need to do some research before making such absurd claims, either you have no knowledge of the Wings or you hate them, let's look at the so called free agency list that you speak of.

    1997 Detroit team:
    Players drafted by the Wings - Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, Vyacheslav Kozlov, Darren McCarty, Martin Lapointe, Tomas Holmstrom, Mathieu Dandenault, Joey Kocur, Anders Eriksson, Mike Knuble, and Chris Osgood (13 players)
    Players acquired through trades - Brendan Shanahan, Larry Murphy, Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby, Tomas Sandstrom, Viacheslav Fetisov, Igor Larionov, Mike Vernon, and Aaron Ward (9 players)
    Free agents - Bob Rouse and Jamie Pushor (What a hot free agent market eh)
    Claimed off waivers - Doug Brown

    1998 Detroit team:
    Players drafted by the Wings - Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Nicklas Lidstrom, Vyacheslav Kozlov, Darren McCarty, Martin Lapointe, Tomas Holmstrom, Mathieu Dandenault, Joey Kocur, Anders Eriksson, Mike Knuble, and Chris Osgood (12 players)
    Players acquired through trades - Brendan Shanahan, Larry Murphy, Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby, Dmitri Mironov, Viacheslav Fetisov, Igor Larionov, Jamie Macoun, and Aaron Ward (9 players)
    Free agents - Bob Rouse, Brent Gilchrist, and Kevin Hodson
    Claimed off waivers - Doug Brown

    2002 Detroit team:
    Players drafted by the Wings - Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Nicklas Lidstrom, Darren McCarty, Tomas Holmstrom, Pavel Datsyuk, Jiri Fischer, and Mathieu Dandenault (8 players)
    Players acquired through trades - Brendan Shanahan, Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby, Igor Larionov, Dominik Hasek, Chris Chelios, and Jiri Slegr (7 players)
    Free agents - Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille, Fredrik Olausson, Steve Duchesne, and Boyd Devereaux (Hull and Luc are the only big names)
    Claimed off waivers - Manny Legace

    Take a look for yourself, Detroit build those teams mostly by drafting and trading, they did not buy them :shakehead
     
  19. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,277
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Toronto
    Don't down play the free agent factor. Bob Rouse was the key
     
  20. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not terribly concerned about the definition of "dynasty" but I do think that the accomplishments of Detroit, New Jersey, and Colorado in recent times match (and in some cases, exceed) many of the teams listed in the first post.
     
  21. Birko19

    Birko19 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    11,198
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ont
    Home Page:
    A key does not mean they bought the cup, it means they made a wise smart free agent signing, just like the Fredrik Olausson signing, these guys were not big names, but they were players that fit nicely and helped the team, they were't the major reason for the cups, but they were part of the team.

    The Red Wings build their team, not buy it, this is a fact.
     
  22. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,032
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Detroit drafted it's way to the Cups and so did NJ. Toronto, and the Rangers tried to buy the Cup. How did that work out?

    The best regular season teams of the last 8-9 years or so are Detroit, NJ, Colorado and Ottawa (who sadly have no cups :cry: ) and they did it because they drafted better than everyone else. That is what gets a stacked team.
     
  23. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    30,981
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Occupation:
    EI Baby
    Location:
    BWO Headquarters
    Home Page:
    Orrawa was a poor team that couldnt aford to buy Free agents
    They didnt have many players to stack the teams ahl or nhl roster thus they did poorly on the ice for a long long time which pays off in high draft choices!


    Luckily they always had decent GM's or there finacial boat wouldnt had stayed afloat to be bailed out by there billionare owner! Thye have a shtot at a cup but i hope they never win it!
     
  24. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,032
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Yeah we were so terrible that we drafted Hossa 12th and Havlat 26th. Where do you place in the NHL to get the 26th choice?

    Yeah it was Ottawa's fault they they got the worst expansion draft ever. Every other team since 1967 had a better chance to pick players when they joined the league than the Senators did. (and TB)

    Didn't the Leafs enjoy a pretty bad run too.... From about say..... 1968-1992.
    :sarcasm:
     
  25. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,277
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Toronto
    Dude, I was kidding. We're talking about BOB ROUSE here.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"