Stance on CBA

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by PanthersFan5Mezei, Oct 25, 2004.

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  1. PanthersFan5Mezei

    PanthersFan5Mezei Registered User

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    I am doing a small story for a Journalism class that I am enrolled in and I need some fan input and quotes. Anyone who would like to voice their opinion on ANYTHING involving the NHL Lockout and would not mind being quoted, please make your post on this thread and include, if you wish, your first and/or last name, your location and favorite NHL Team. Also, please take the time to answer the poll question, "What is the biggest problem with the NHL?" Thanks.
     
  2. The CBA and the NHLPA have long outlived their purpose. Hockey is big business now and the players all sign very lucrative deals. All players negotiate their own deals individually and there is nothing that couldn't be worked out that a standard player's contract couldn't cover. It is more of a business partnership than a employer-employee relationship.
     
  3. triggrman

    triggrman Registered User

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    I chose Player salaries as it right now is the biggest problem, you can argue which side you stand on but the salaries can't be argued. Whe Detroit is losing 13M a season, salaries are a problem. Is it the owners fault or the players fault? That can be debated though.

    I think Bettman and Goodenow are both problems, I think the greed of some of the players and some of the owners are a problem. I think officating lowers the quality of the product moreso than any other factor and that's a problem.
     
  4. YellHockey*

    YellHockey* Guest

    The biggest problem is the owners' desire to promote their own interests ahead of the games interests. They'd rather ply the media with propaganda about their ludicrous lockout then try and promote the game.

    If the owners can convince the fans to back them on something as stupid as a lockout, why can't they convince the American public to watch the greatest sport on the planet?
     
  5. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    :lol Umm... what are the players doing? Refusing to get a deal done because they're too concerned about themselves, and then telling us about their dogs' incredible eating habits.

    Why would the NHL promote itself now, when it's in terrible shape, and nothing new in sight with players refusing to cooperate? Wouldn't make much sense.
     
  6. joechip

    joechip Registered User

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    While I'm not enamoured of the stance taken by the player's union, I think, that ultimately, the biggest problem right now is the lack of quality NHL hockey being played... or not, as the case may be. :banghead:

    Seriously, the lack of quality night in and night out is the biggest problem and the CBA can only address some of those problems. Other things need to be changed in order to improve the way the game is played as much as how much it costs to watch it.

    Ta,
     
  7. x-bob

    x-bob Registered User

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    All of those choices are some sort of problems but the player salary is really what's killing the game.
     
  8. shveik

    shveik Registered User

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    IMO the root of the NHL problems is the market disparity. The gap between richer and poorer teams is quite wide. Everything else stems from that. There are only 2 solutions to that: 1) develop the TV revenue streams to be more like the other major sports (not so much dependent on the size of the local market) 2) contraction, to about 24 teams in my estimates. Eventually one or the other has to be done. At this moment the question is how to sustain the league in the meantime, and what is the best way to avoid solution number 2, retreating to the back stage of the major sports in NA. Again there are two choices, the players foot the bill (salary cap), or the owners (full revenue sharing). Oh, and everything in between, which IMO both sides have forgotten ;)
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Registered User

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    "I believe the quality of the game is the biggest problem the NHL is facing. The current lockout and CBA discussions are just the most immediate problem the league is facing. A portion of the problem regarding the CBA negotiations is that the teams are losing money due to the lack of interest in the sport and it's teams. The quality of the game is no doubt better in terms of talent, but it's not drawing fans to the ice rinks and it's not drawing fans to watch the games on TV leading to increased ratings. These lower profits and gains by the owners are causing the league to look to other ways to recoup their losses, namely a take back on the escalating salaries that most of the league participated in. If every team had the revenue streams of the Toronto Maple Leafs or Detroit Red Wings, there wouldn't be an issue with the current CBA more than greedy owners hoping to increase their profit margins. The CBA is not affected by the quality of the game, but the quality of the game is being affected by the CBA." - Matt Converse, Phoenix, Arizona US, Phoenix Coyotes fan.
     
  10. thinkwild

    thinkwild Veni Vidi Toga

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    Its the complaining. The constant complaining. Management is always complaining. There will never be a time when they arent complaining. They cant get everything they want. Fans complain about the game. Its the advent of the armchair critic industry. Everyone wants to get on their soapbox and point out what is wrong. No one will say what is good. Its no fun, and doesnt make you look smart.

    CBA armageddon threats have been bubbling for 6 years now. The day after a new CBA is signed, the seeds will be planted for complaining about the next one. Until all 30 teams can each win the cup in the same year, there will be something wrong with the system that needs to be fixed to allow them to build a winner.

    Basketball might be headed for a lockout. Too many owners are losing money. They need a lower cap. They need some more restrictions. Its just enough. All the new money they made was taken by the greedy players.

    Fans looking for ways to ensure helpless billionaires can make a little more.

    Thats my complaint.
     
  11. Cawz

    Cawz Registered User

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    You forgot about the players complaining. Say something bad about the players. Please. I want to see if you can. Then your posts here will have a little more merit since you've shown you can be objective. So far all you've shown is that you think the entire PA's collective **** dont stink.

    I'll start for you. The players complain about the clutching and grabbing, but they are the ones clutching and grabbing. The players complain about the disrespect in the league (headshots etc) but they are the ones cheapshotting.

    The main problem in the league is that everyone (owners and players) points the finger at someone else for the shortcomings of the league. Blame the refs, blame the goalie pads, blame the rules, blame the trap, blame the seamless glass, blame the elbow pads...

    Heavin forbid anyone would blame the elbow behind the pad, or the person holding the stick that's hooking. Yup, just blame the greedy players, blame the irresponsible owners, pretend both sides are unified and blame the other side.

    I blame myself for actually caring. 8 days till basketball.
     
  12. thinkwild

    thinkwild Veni Vidi Toga

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    Say something bad about the players? LOL. You know, I read that and at first scoffed, what do you mean I never say anything bad about the players, I can say something bad about the players. Then I paused, and paused .. Its been so long since I've seen hockey I think Ive forgotten all the complaints I had with them. :)

    Its not my character to generally complain about the players. I've found those bases are usually covered. I've always tried to bring the other perspective. Im an optimistic Sens fan remember :)

    Why cant the owners see that they need to tie their salaries to their revenues or they will lose money? I just dont get why they don't do this. Don't they realize they could go bankrupt? They MUST tie their salaries to their revenues. The sooner they do this, the sooner we can have a healthier league. Maybe Dallas owner Tom Hicks can supply some of his corporate raider buddys to each of the owners to get their ships running right. The owners need someone else to make the tough decisions., They got into this for community spirit. All these people hating them for not spending, they need soemone to say, look, I had no choice. Kind of like Bettmans line to start the lockout. He really had no choice. Just like John Turner.

    As long as Buttman is proposing a cap, there is nothing needed to be said about the players on the business side. What they have is worth fighting to keep. And as long they stay united, they will win.

    All this about now is the owners, fans and media, like Perre Maguire with his brownose so buried i can hear buttmans farts when Pierre talks. All pierre wants to do is try and generate cracks in the union. Like the owners. Like the fans. This is the strategy now. See if we can crack them, make them surrender and return. Well reality might set in hard soon for those thinking this way.


    I see the cap as 2 distinct things. One is an overall relationship between leaguewide revenues and salaries. This is a general principle the battle seems currently over. Im ambivalent over it. The owners want it and know they can only get it through bloodshed. Yet they still chose that path.

    The other one is how you implement this. There are probably many ways of doing it. Restricting free agency, arbitration, luxury taxes, etc etc, but if they choose to implement it with a uniform team payroll cap, I think there is a lot of evidence about that should make us all thing twice about that seemingly simplistic solution.

    The effects of a uniform payroll cap are more pernicious than simply lowering salaries. This is an upheaval in everything we know and understand about hockey. The effects on team building, what it takes to win, how you win. who gets the money, mediocrity over greatness, it will be huge change in everything we know and love about hockey. It is a bigger battle all sports unions are going to always fight over. But owners are going to have to learn to compete while the best players have free agency. They are just going to have to become smarter and stop taking advantage of fans sincere but mistaken perspectives.

    The players definitely need to show more respect on the ice. They clutch and grab and cheat, and then complain about it because the other guy got away with it. They give cheapshots and hide. They hold out for money and demand trades. Some of them are so hyped on sudies they become mental. They get paid all this money and then some nights put in half assed efforts. They never share their real thoughts on the team with us. They whine about ice time, whine about their roles, play with their own agendas in the regular season. Never pick up a cheque. Play too much video games.

    Generally though, other than a few idiots, I dont have much bad to say about the players. And certainly cant fault them for what is happening now. If the owners were to actually put a reasonable offer on the table that didnt try and break the larger legal issues they are trying to break, I would be right with you demanding they get back to work and stop acting like they have to right the wrongs of the last century. But the owners have put forth nothing for criticism. There is no plan, just vague concepts. Still! And its nearly Halloween! What, they arent at an impasse now? What are they waiting for? There is a minimum number of token gestures that have to be performed first?

    Let the owners come out with an honest explanation of what they are doing for the good of the game, and I will support them 100%. Right now all I hear is lies. Makes it difficult to be objective for me.
     
  13. Onion Boy

    Onion Boy Registered User

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    Of course I was the only guy to put team locations...well it's true!

    I'd put quality of the game too, but that doesn't really fall under the CBA, unless of course you meant league contraction, thus increasing the talent pool of players.

    When I picked team locations, contraction was kinda implied.
     
  14. joepeps

    joepeps Registered User

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    Yeah!!!

    how is players salary the biggest problem?
     
  15. garry1221

    garry1221 Registered User

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    would the league be in the financial state they're in today if not for the players salary demands growing and growing with each passing year?
     
  16. joepeps

    joepeps Registered User

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    Yeah!!!

    Owners fault!!!!

    Players didn't ask for that salary to begin with...

    Owners offered it, and started offereing more to other crappy players....

    then better players compared, and said look if he's getting this I deserve this......
     
  17. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    Umm... yeah. Back on planet Earth, though, players do ask for higher salaries.
     
  18. Chili

    Chili Registered User

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    The biggest problem to me is that owners and players have completely different agendas and consequently have created an acrimonious situation between each other.

    They can't divorce here so like it or not, they need each other to move the cba process forward.

    The on ice product is still a major concern though, if and when they ever return.
     
  19. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    Quality of the game is an issue. Better product= more interest= better TV deal.

    Over expansion relates to this. Too many teams and the NHL (which did need to go up from 21) expanded into the wrong markets for hockey. The southern team also have bad ice which is a drag on quality of play, not to mention the dillution of talent.
     
  20. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    The main problem is that the CBA is not strategy-focused... at least not the ‘proper’-strategy-focused…

    All other problems (escalating salaries, quality of game, etc.) are symptoms of this main problem.

    If the CBA guided every team (including the rich ones) to follow the natural ‘franchise life cycle’ – NHL hockey would heal the majority of it’s wounds naturally on it’s own…

    For whatever reason, the majority of teams (under the old CBA) are not implementing the proper strategy to build their teams the right way. Perhaps these GM’s are bowing down to what fans (and media) think the team should do? Perhaps these GM’s are bowing down to what owner’s think they should do (fear of losing their jobs?)… Regardless of the reason, with the majority of teams in continuous ‘buy mode’ (or ‘acquire mode’) (1) this inflates the market, and distrupts team salary structure - if the player acquired does not fit in to what the current players are earning for their respective roles (2) This increases the division between “have’s†and “have not’s†(improper distribution of talent amongst the teams – those that can afford the veteran stars get the veteran stars, not necessarily those teams who should have the veteran stars given where they are in the ‘franchise life cycle’)… (3) This tricks the majority of teams into thinking that they need to make the playoffs every year – even when it’s not their time to shine – thus, ‘clutch and grab’, trap hockey… (4) This tricks the old, expensive, and declining success teams into thinking that they do not need to ‘re-build’…

    The new CBA should guide (not force) teams to follow the ‘franchise life cycle’… The new CBA should make the ‘buy’ strategy as effective as the old CBA was in the ‘acquire RFA’ strategy – possible to do, but not the preferred or recommended method because of the high cost…

    Don’t arbitrarily limit what players can earn (or what owners can spend)… but significantly reduce the number of ‘big name player’ transactions that occur in a season…
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2004
  21. Sugar Domi

    Sugar Domi Registered User

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    They expanded far too much and far too fast too IMO. That is the source of A LOT of problems.

    Then you have the owners losing the last CBA negociations 10 years ago.

    All the problems NHL is facing today comes from these two points and who's responsible for the last CBA and for over expanding ? The NBA dude Gary Bettman. That's who I blame for what's currently happening.

    BTW that doesn't mean I stand on the players side either.
     
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