Speculation: Stammergeddon: Episode II - The not so phantom menace

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TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
This is the exact attitude that gets the Leafs' fanbase so much ridicule. You're talking like you've already won a cup, when in reality you're still in tank mode. Worse, you're telling fans of a team who've actually witnessed a successful rebuild how it's done.

Funny that no Tampa fans ridiculed me, but a fellow Canadian. I'm just firing some playful shots and with Tavares' contract coming due in just a couple years's time, who is a GTA native as well, Things aren't all rosy in paradise for him, either.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
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Funny that no Tampa fans ridiculed me, but a fellow Canadian. I'm just firing some playful shots and with Tavares' contract coming due in just a couple years's time, who is a GTA native as well, Things aren't all rosy in paradise for him, either.

I'm a Canadian TB fan. We exist.

Food for thought of the day:

As long as you draft and develop the MAJORITY of your players nowadays in the cap era, the only 'proper' rebuild a team can do is the one that leads to Lord Stanley's Cup.

That is the outcome of the Shanaplan after all.

Imagine how that looks to another team's fanbase, especially coming from a fan of a team whose main goal this year is to nab Auston Matthews.

I believe Toronto is doing everything right at the moment. But, food for thought, you're in the same position we were 3-4 years ago. So it's not like we haven't experienced this.
 

chasespace

Registered User
Jul 19, 2010
9,045
18
Gator Nation
Funny that no Tampa fans ridiculed me, but a fellow Canadian. I'm just firing some playful shots and with Tavares' contract coming due in just a couple years's time, who is a GTA native as well, Things aren't all rosy in paradise for him, either.

DFC is our resident Canadian. Or one of them, there's a few.

And the Islanders could still be bottom of the barrel and I doubt Tavares would want to go to Toronto. There's a reason big name players avoid big name markets that aren't called New York ,LA, or Chicago.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
I'm a Canadian TB fan. We exist.



Imagine how that looks to another team's fanbase, especially coming from a fan of a team whose main goal this year is to nab Auston Matthews.

I believe Toronto is doing everything right at the moment. But, food for thought, you're in the same position we were 3-4 years ago. So it's not like we haven't experienced this.

I'm happy to see Tampa's fan base extend beyond their market. Its good for the franchise.

Consider this. Toronto deserves to not be a laughing stock and the half-century long Ballard curse needs to be lifted for good. Its time.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
DFC is our resident Canadian. Or one of them, there's a few.

And the Islanders could still be bottom of the barrel and I doubt Tavares would want to go to Toronto. There's a reason big name players avoid big name markets that aren't called New York ,LA, or Chicago.

Disagree. I think big name players want to win and will look positively on ANY market following a winning model.

Its all relative and Toronto has made serious steps of late to build a winner properly and are doing it with one of the most winningest coaches in the games today.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
46,844
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I'm happy to see Tampa's fan base extend beyond their market. Its good for the franchise.

Consider this. Toronto deserves to not be a laughing stock and the half-century long Ballard curse needs to be lifted for good. Its time.

You're right. But if you stop telling other fanbases how it's done, especially while your team is still in the beginning stages of it, it'll go a long way to removing the "laughing stock" tag. We don't laugh at your team nearly so much as we laugh at you, the fans of the team.

The TML obviously have the largest hockey fanbase. But please, please stop pretending it's hockey heaven. At least until you can land a UFA player (i.e. someone that has to fit under the salary cap, not a coach) whose not David Clarkson.

Don't get me wrong, I think you will land those players. But it's still a few years off. Maybe the timing on Tavares will be right. But until then, why tell us how it's done? We already know how it's done. We're in the end stages of something you're just beginning.
 

chasespace

Registered User
Jul 19, 2010
9,045
18
Gator Nation
Disagree. I think big name players want to win and will look positively on ANY market following a winning model.

Its all relative and Toronto has made serious steps of late to build a winner properly and are doing it with one of the most winningest coaches in the games today.

I agree they will look at ANY market that looks like it will win but when they can have their pick of the group they'll go with the market that has less negatives. The media frenzy that ALWAYS surrounds the Leafs will forever deter star players from signing there. Will it prevent them? No. But if they can choose between Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, LA, and the Rangers then I would say the two Canadian teams would not be one of their first or second choices.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
You're right. But if you stop telling other fanbases how it's done, especially while your team is still in the beginning stages of it, it'll go a long way to removing the "laughing stock" tag. We don't laugh at your team nearly so much as we laugh at you, the fans of the team.

The TML obviously have the largest hockey fanbase. But please, please stop pretending it's hockey heaven. At least until you can land a UFA player (i.e. someone that has to fit under the salary cap, not a coach) whose not David Clarkson.

Don't get me wrong, I think you will land those players. But it's still a few years off. Maybe the timing on Tavares will be right. But until then, why tell us how it's done? We already know how it's done. We're in the end stages of something you're just beginning.

Because it time to lift the blinders off the rest of the league who thinks the Shanaplan is just the beginning. We've very quietly and neatly been getting nice things for the past half decade and have the makings of a predominantly, internally drafted and developed team.

2012 Morgan Rielly - top 5
2013 Middle first - Freddy Gauthier.
2014 William Nylander - top 10
2015 Mitch Marner - top 5

A consensus NHL top five prospect pool before this year's draft.

2016 currently a MINIMUM of 11 picks one of them a top 5 pick by the looks of things.

Next season we will start to see at least two of those picks bear fruit in Nylander and Marner and possibly the 2016 1st.

Add to that the Leipsic's (not too shabby last night, eh), the dark horse Connor Browns, the Kapanens, current solid CHL D studs like Nielsen and Dermott, AHL studs, Percy and Loov.

Zaitsev says he's signing.

Have you met Shoshnikov and Timashov?

Current Euro stud and another late pickup in Andreas Johnson.

PLUS what we pick up this offseason.

We be ready for a Stamkos, I assure you.
 

dechire

TBL Stanley Cup Champs 2020 2021
Jul 8, 2014
16,654
3,945
inconnu
Don't Leafs fans have their own board where they can post about how they're destined to win a Cup next year or whatever ? Like no offense but I don't actually care about your future.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
46,844
22,694
NB
Because it time to lift the blinders off the rest of the league who thinks the Shanaplan is just the beginning. We've very quietly and neatly been getting nice things for the past half decade and have the makings of a predominantly, internally drafted and developed team.

2012 Morgan Rielly - top 5
2013 Middle first - Freddy Gauthier.
2014 William Nylander - top 10
2015 Mitch Marner - top 5

A consensus NHL top five prospect pool before this year's draft.

2016 currently a MINIMUM of 11 picks one of them a top 5 pick by the looks of things.

Next season we will start to see at least two of those picks bear fruit in Nylander and Marner and possibly the 2016 1st.

Add to that the Leipsic's (not too shabby last night, eh), the dark horse Connor Browns, the Kapanens, current solid CHL D studs like Nielsen and Dermott, AHL studs, Percy and Loov.

Zaitsev says he's signing.

Have you met Shoshnikov and Timashov?

Current Euro stud and another late pickup in Andreas Johnson.

PLUS what we pick up this offseason.

We be ready for a Stamkos, I assure you.

Again, this is why the Leafs' fanbase (not the Leafs themselves) are the laughing stock of the league. You were clearly not in a rebuild mode until Nonis's last year--you were still trying to win. Thus, the Kessel and Phaneuf signings--mistakes that led you to those high picks.

You started the real rebuild at the end of last year. Everything else was simply happy accidents from all the losing you were doing while trying to win.

You're listing Frederick Gauthier here. ...

And, again, you're talking to a fanbase whose already been there, done that--including losing while trying to win. Yeah, we went through it. So please stop giving us directions on how it's done, as if we're completely clueless about what the beginning stages look like.

If you want to land Stamkos for 11m, then by all means, you can have the fourth best player on our team (5th, maybe?). But I think your management is too smart to do it. The fanbase, on the other hand, is salivating over the idea of giving the league's richest contract to a guy who's not even all that close to the best player on his own team.
 

Coopers Gum

Extend Andrej Sustr
Mar 6, 2012
9,366
1,573
water spicket
Don't Leafs fans have their own board where they can post about how they're destined to win a Cup next year or whatever ? Like no offense but I don't actually care about your future.

Pretty much. The biggest sign of insecurity? Flaunting that you're not. I can assure you that none of us on the TBL board really care.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
Again, this is why the Leafs' fanbase (not the Leafs themselves) are the laughing stock of the league. You were clearly not in a rebuild mode until Nonis's last year--you were still trying to win. Thus, the Kessel and Phaneuf signings--mistakes that led you to those high picks.

You started the real rebuild at the end of last year. Everything else was simply happy accidents from all the losing you were doing while trying to win.

You're listing Frederick Gauthier here. ...

And, again, you're talking to a fanbase whose already been there, done that--including losing while trying to win. Yeah, we went through it. So please stop giving us directions on how it's done, as if we're completely clueless about what the beginning stages look like.

If you want to land Stamkos for 11m, then by all means, you can have the fourth best player on our team (5th, maybe?). But I think your management is too smart to do it. The fanbase, on the other hand, is salivating over the idea of giving the league's richest contract to a guy who's not even all that close to the best player on his own team.

Ok. No prob. On question though. Did you or did you not have a PPG star when Stammer first came into the NHL and you started your rebuild?

Like a Marty St. Louis perhaps?

Was Vinny Lecavalier any good at the time?

Do we have a player like that for Marner and the 2016 1st currently?
 

Lord Stan 2020

Elite fan
Jun 29, 2013
12,262
886
New Port Richey Fl
www.facebook.com
I'm happy to see Tampa's fan base extend beyond their market. Its good for the franchise.
Consider this. Toronto deserves to not be a laughing stock and the half-century long Ballard curse needs to be lifted for good. Its time.

the funny thing is on this board we asked once why people were fans and where they are from etc..

was more outsiders here than tampa by a ton was interesting stories on why someone was a fan from all over the world

i found it uplifting myself
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
46,844
22,694
NB
Ok. No prob. On question though. Did you or did you not have a PPG star when Stammer first came into the NHL and you started your rebuild?

Like a Marty St. Louis perhaps?

Was Vinny Lecavalier any good at the time?

Do we have a player like that for Marner and the 2016 1st currently?

Our rebuild didn't start when Stamkos came into the league. It started when Yzerman took over and his scouting staff began to find talent in the late rounds of the draft. We had Stamkos and Hedman to build on already, and that was lucky. But the key to our success has been what we've surrounded those two with, especially now that Stamkos is a shadow of his former self.

That's what's next for you. Forget the Nylanders and the Marners. It's finding talent outside of high draft picks that separates a good rebuild from the Edmonton Oilers.

It's also about asset management. Yzerman has made more than a few mistakes on that front, but his bad decisions have been far outweighed by the good decisions. It's a BAD decision to give Stamkos anything close to the league's richest contract, regardless of your situation.

Watch him for a few games. Say, five games. Then come back and say he's a $10m player. This is a board full of guys who've watched nearly every game of the Stamkos's career, many of whom (myself included) have considered him our favorite player. And I don't know if there's anyone left here who thinks he's worth anything close to 10m.
 

Lord Stan 2020

Elite fan
Jun 29, 2013
12,262
886
New Port Richey Fl
www.facebook.com
Because it time to lift the blinders off the rest of the league who thinks the Shanaplan is just the beginning. We've very quietly and neatly been getting nice things for the past half decade and have the makings of a predominantly, internally drafted and developed team.

2012 Morgan Rielly - top 5
2013 Middle first - Freddy Gauthier.
2014 William Nylander - top 10
2015 Mitch Marner - top 5

A consensus NHL top five prospect pool before this year's draft.

2016 currently a MINIMUM of 11 picks one of them a top 5 pick by the looks of things.

Next season we will start to see at least two of those picks bear fruit in Nylander and Marner and possibly the 2016 1st.

Add to that the Leipsic's (not too shabby last night, eh), the dark horse Connor Browns, the Kapanens, current solid CHL D studs like Nielsen and Dermott, AHL studs, Percy and Loov.

Zaitsev says he's signing.

Have you met Shoshnikov and Timashov?

Current Euro stud and another late pickup in Andreas Johnson.

PLUS what we pick up this offseason.

We be ready for a Stamkos, I assure you.


only going to give you advice about this flat out its babcocks way or the highway and it will take a hell of a lot longer than you are expecting to be competitive because is babcock running the team

i was a detroit fan for 38 seasons and moved here as the lightning started i finally changed my allegiance this last playoffs where actually cared more for lightning winning than the red wings they were equal for the last many years and just wanted either to win

i am more invested in the lightning being rooted here now so that is why the change finally but i do love the wings and i

hate hate hate babcock you will too at some point probably hell of a coach but a pain in the ass also
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
Our rebuild didn't start when Stamkos came into the league. It started when Yzerman took over and his scouting staff began to find talent in the late rounds of the draft. We had Stamkos and Hedman to build on already, and that was lucky. But the key to our success has been what we've surrounded those two with, especially now that Stamkos is a shadow of his former self.

That's what's next for you. Forget the Nylanders and the Marners. It's finding talent outside of high draft picks that separates a good rebuild from the Edmonton Oilers.

It's also about asset management. Yzerman has made more than a few mistakes on that front, but his bad decisions have been far outweighed by the good decisions. It's a BAD decision to give Stamkos anything close to the league's richest contract, regardless of your situation.

Watch him for a few games. Say, five games. Then come back and say he's a $10m player. This is a board full of guys who've watched nearly every game of the Stamkos's career, many of whom (myself included) have considered him our favorite player. And I don't know if there's anyone left here who thinks he's worth anything close to 10m.

Unfortunately Kopitar assures you that he is.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
only going to give you advice about this flat out its babcocks way or the highway and it will take a hell of a lot longer than you are expecting to be competitive because is babcock running the team

i was a detroit fan for 38 seasons and moved here as the lightning started i finally changed my allegiance this last playoffs where actually cared more for lightning winning than the red wings they were equal for the last many years and just wanted either to win

i am more invested in the lightning being rooted here now so that is why the change finally but i do love the wings and i

hate hate hate babcock you will too at some point probably hell of a coach but a pain in the ass also

I like his no B/S style. You may have hated him, but he is a true student of the game and his system is truly a winning one, highlighted by the Jack Adams' his pupils have won when gone on to coach their own teams.

Believe me, in Toronto he's a much welcome and refreshing change from Idiot Carlyle and Rotten Ronnie before him.;)
 

Todd1a

Kucherov or prospect
Jun 19, 2014
16,389
2,747
orlando, fl
Our rebuild didn't start when Stamkos came into the league. It started when Yzerman took over and his scouting staff began to find talent in the late rounds of the draft. We had Stamkos and Hedman to build on already, and that was lucky. But the key to our success has been what we've surrounded those two with, especially now that Stamkos is a shadow of his former self.

That's what's next for you. Forget the Nylanders and the Marners. It's finding talent outside of high draft picks that separates a good rebuild from the Edmonton Oilers.

It's also about asset management. Yzerman has made more than a few mistakes on that front, but his bad decisions have been far outweighed by the good decisions. It's a BAD decision to give Stamkos anything close to the league's richest contract, regardless of your situation.

Watch him for a few games. Say, five games. Then come back and say he's a $10m player. This is a board full of guys who've watched nearly every game of the Stamkos's career, many of whom (myself included) have considered him our favorite player. And I don't know if there's anyone left here who thinks he's worth anything close to 10m.
Our rebuild started in 2011 when yzerman had his scouting staff lead by Alan Murray running his drafts. 1st round vladdy, 2nd round kucherov 7th round palat 2011 FA signing Tyler Johnson . Before that of course yzerman had stamkos and hedman here already.
 

GollyG

Registered User
Apr 4, 2015
227
0
In a Storm Cloud
Don't Leafs fans have their own board where they can post about how they're destined to win a Cup next year or whatever ? Like no offense but I don't actually care about your future.


I agree. I had to make sure I was actually in a thread about Stamkos and the Lightning. IDGAF about Toronto, man.
 

CupsOverCash

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
16,353
7,092
No because your cap situation can't afford it, otherwise I doubt you'd have a problem with it.

We can afford him but we have other guys who are going to be up for contracts and guys who we would rather give that money to.

If Stamkos was actually worth 10 mil he would be a guy we could build around. He's only 26. However he's not worth 10 mil. He's not that kind of player anymore.

So he will either have to take a pay cut here or go elsewhere. I don't blame him for going for the money at all but it's not going to be from us.
 

Lovethiscity

Registered User
Nov 9, 2014
1,213
34
Tampa, FL
You can build a team paying stamkos 10 hedman 8 palat , Johnson and kucherov 6 each! It's called ok al Murray!! You better keep up drafting we need support around these guys! Because we can't sign free agents!!

And do what for Goaltenders? Kuch is resigning for more than 6 btw
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
We can afford him but we have other guys who are going to be up for contracts and guys who we would rather give that money to.

If Stamkos was actually worth 10 mil he would be a guy we could build around. He's only 26. However he's not worth 10 mil. He's not that kind of player anymore.

So he will either have to take a pay cut here or go elsewhere. I don't blame him for going for the money at all but it's not going to be from us.

And I don't blame you one iota for taking that approach. I wish the triplets well.
 
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